Anatomy of a Beef Brisket

[Doc-G]

Dear Colleagues,

I have been viewing and digesting with great delight the stories and pictures of beef briskets cooked in the US I believe 'Texas style'.

With the Aussie summer fast approaching and some friends from the UK and a new BBQ on the way, I want to start learning how to do this. I have read most of the stuff on this BBS and read some literature by Steve Raichlen, checked out websites etc and am ready to start experimenting.

The first obstacle is getting Beef Brisket of the right specification. I work here in Australia, in the meat industry and buy tonnes of beef every week for our family manufacturing business. The whole beef briskets I have ordered have been HUGE...much bigger than the ones I see in the pictures on this website. Whilst everyone knows what a brisket is, no-one seems to know how a US Texas style beef brisket should be trimmed. I have the contacts to get the meat I want, but need to know how it is supposed to be cut.

I have seen people on this board saying they bought 'whole' briskets from butchers. From what I can tell, these briskets are not whole but already trimmed WAY down from the way they come off the cow. You guys are then obviously trimming them even further.

The question I have for my highly esteemed colleagues over the pond is, which part of the whole brisket should I be using and when I say whole I mean as it is when cut off from a side of beef? It would be great if someone could point me to a website or show/describe on this website with the use of pictures how the brisket should be trimmed to a 'useable' 'Texas style' brisket for BBQ'ing.

Also, does it matter what breed of cattle to use. I understand it helps to have a fair amount of fat in the meat in order to keep it moist whilst cooking for such a long time. Has anyone used Wagyu (Kobe) brisket as I would have thought the fat content and marbling characteristics would be ideal?

I am intending to use a gas BBQ with a smoker box. Can I get a good enough result with this? I do have access to an industrial smoke oven but this could be construed as overkill! My other option is to purchase another BBQ just for smoking. We get a fair amount of Weber products here. Can anyone recommend a good one?

Looking forward to hearing responses.

Thankyou in advance.

Doc-G

Edited September 10, 2005 by Doc-G (log)

[fifi]

First, welcome Doc-G.

You have touched on a subject dear to my heart.

On the grades of brisket . . . this is a topic of great mystery to many of us. I am friends with a couple of competitive BBQ teams and they are wondering the same thing. Where is the USDA Prime brisket? Where can you get wagyu brisket? Actually, wagyu beef was developed here at Texas A&M (University) as far as I can tell and we still don't have an answer. I started a thread here not long ago on this very subject and no answers yet.

On the cooking of brisket, I can't think of a better place to send you than this one. I have a Weber bullet and love it. But, if you have some sort of smoking set-up with a water pan for a heat sink you can achieve the same results. The key is to keep a constant (as much as possible) temperature of about 225F at the meat. Take a look at the information on that site about the temperature "stall" at about 170F when the fat melting and collagen conversion is happening. That is a fascinating phenomenon.

I will be really interested in hearing what you can find as to "grades" of brisket. Whatever you find, don't be tempted to trim any fat before smoking.

If you want to check out a Texas BBQ Click Here.

[Pam R]

Hi Doc-G,

I don't really know about true 'Texan brisket" but I have some thoughts on the meat.

First of all, I'm assuming the briskets you're used to may look something like the one my father is holding in this picture. That's a whole, untrimmed brisket, weighing in at about 20 lbs. This includes both sections, the flat cut and the point cut, and the layer of fat between the two. Some explaining is done at the Cook's Thesaurus, though unfortunately no pictures.

When we cook briskets ourselves (and sell them to any hotel or caterer) it's always the whole, huge one. In our storefront though, we sell what is called a 'single'. Our customers assume or at least call it a whole brisket but in reality it's just the thinner, less fatty part of the brisket (the flat cut).

Here's a good sight with some diagrams

I don't know if this helped - do Texans use the 20 lb-ers or smaller pieces?

[dls]

Where can you get wagyu brisket?

Try here. I've ordered several briskets from these folks and they have been outstanding. The taste and tenderness is incomparable. Once you try one you won't settle for anything less.

And, at $2.95 a pound, they're a real bargain. There is a shipping and container charge however.

[Carrot Top]

Where can you get wagyu brisket?

Try here. I've ordered several briskets from these folks and they have been outstanding. The taste and tenderness is incomparable. Once you try one you won't settle for anything less.

And, at $2.95 a pound, they're a real bargain. There is a shipping and container charge however.

←

That is a very nice link, dls, and I for one will definitely try ordering from them, as the area I live in has little to offer in this way.

I wonder if the Kobe beef that they are producing would have any discernible difference in flavor or texture than the Japanese Kobe beef, as the "extras" like massaging the cow are not done here. Interesting. . .

[snowangel]

This is a pretty decent diagram of beef cuts.

How big are the briskets you are used to getting? The last monster I smoked was 19 pounds, although they are more often in the 12-15 pound range.

This is a picture of the 19 pounder, pre-smoking, so you can get an idea of what this american cut looks like:

I've never smoked on a gas grill, and I can't recall it being discussed much on eGullet. I am a big fan of my trusty Weber Kettle. I have the 21" one , and do have the hinged grate (essential). If you are interested in some info about smoking meat on the Kettle or Smokey Mountain, there is also a lot of info here, and I could point you to some great topics.

Finally, if you haven't read Klink's course on Smoking Meat at Home and the accompanying Q & A, please do!

[Marlene]

Now why don't they have online butcher stores like that here in Canada? It's really not fair.

I picked up a whole brisket today, except it sort of flat. Looking at snowangel's I don;t think it's supposed to be is it?

[hwilson41]

I picked up a whole brisket today, except it sort of flat.  Looking at snowangel's I don;t think it's supposed to be is it?

←

Marlene, I'm guessing you got the flat (the long, relatively thin under part) but not the point. See here for an excellent discussion. Having only the flat isn't necessarily bad, as it is very difficult to get the thick end with the point cooked to where you want it without making the thin end way overdone. Yours will be easier, and quicker, to cook, and should be fine as long as the butcher left a decent amount of the fat cap that is between the point and the flat. If not, try to get some suet and drape a thin sheet of it over the whole thing.

[Marlene]

That sounds about right. There's a great fat cap on it. I'll get a picture of it later and put it up so you can see what I'm talking about

[fifi]

Yes to all of the above. When doing a whole brisket, I usually cut it into the flat and the point. I put the remote thermometer in the flat and when that is done, I move it to the point and drink some more beer.

[Jaymes]

I have seen people on this board saying they bought 'whole' briskets from butchers. From what I can tell, these briskets are not whole but already trimmed WAY down from the way they come off the cow. You guys are then obviously trimming them even further.

What I buy from my butcher is called the 'whole brisket.' It has a nice layer of fat, which you want to leave on when you smoke it. I am currently not living in Texas, and all of my stuff, including my BBQ smoker, is packed up in storage in Texas. So when I go back to Texas, I buy whole smoked brisket from my favorite BBQ place. It can weigh as much as 20 pounds, but usually more like 8-15. It's not trimmed. It's got the point/deckle and all the fat still on it. I never trim it off until AFTER it's cooked.

I'd suggest that you simply ask your butcher for a smaller one, rather than trying to trim up a large one.

Here is an excellent site:

Brisket 101.

Note: On that site, he refers to a 'packer cut.' It's possible that when I tell my butcher I want a 'whole brisket,' what he gives me is a 'packer cut' and I just don't know it.

Edited September 10, 2005 by Jaymes (log)

[Doc-G]

The Briskets I have seen so far have been big but not that heavy. I reckon around 10 pounds at most but they are like a big curtain of meat (and fat). I have been told that these are 'small' briskets. I'll try and get a 'big' one and take a photo of it and perhaps someone will be able to point out the 'anatomy' of mine compared to yours. Looking at the photos provided, all that meat looks like it has been 'pre-trimmed' at the meat packers before wholesale at least to the point that it looks presentable.

Regarding Wagyu, we just bought a whole Wagyu rump (approx 8 pounds) and sliced it and cyrovac'ed it. We tried some the other day and it was delicious. I'm sure I will be able to source Wagyu brisket from the same supplier. He is making Wagyu sausages from it which I just judged in a competition. Anyway, I want to be able to cook a 'normal' brisket first before I try it on the 'big-game'. Interestingly Carrot-Top, I have heard that the Wagyu we get and grow here in Australia is not distinguishable from the 'Kobe' beef in Japan despite their massages and beer drinking. In fact Australia has just started exporting the best Wagyu to Japan and is getting top dollar for it.

Thankyou fifi and SnowAngel for the pics and links. That Texas BBQ comp looks like meat heaven. I wish we had somthing like that around here. It makes me even more determined to visit your country again. SnowAngel, that 19 pounder looked beautiful. More importantly, it will give me a reference point with which to compare the briskets I can get hold of. Similarly thanks to everyone else for providing links to all the pertinent places. I dont know how I could go wrong with such expertise as I've found on eGullet.

Does anyone know the size of the cow that is needed in order to get a 12 pound 'trimmed' brisket? I've been told this is how I have to order it.

Also thankyou to everyone else who has posted so far.

I will endeavour to keep this thread updated when I start to make some progress.

Cheers,

Big-G

Edited September 11, 2005 by Doc-G (log)

[Carrot Top]

Interestingly Carrot-Top, I have heard that the Wagyu we get and grow here in Australia is not distinguishable from the 'Kobe' beef in Japan despite their massages and beer drinking. In fact Australia has just started exporting the best Wagyu to Japan and is getting top dollar for it.

←

From a purely practical viewpoint, I am happy to hear this. More Wagyu all around, more good trade opportunities.

On the other hand, I am somewhat saddened. It seemed somehow "right" that to give such kindness to an animal before eating it would be rewarded with more delicious taste.

Oh well. I guess it is never that simple, is it.

Looking forward to hearing of your next adventure with the brisket. Do keep us posted!

[Juanito]

If your suppliers are familiar with, or have access to, the NAMP (National Assoc of Meat Purveyors) Guide, tell them you want #118 beef brisket.

That is the whole brisket with the deckle still on. (120 would be deckle off)

Depending upon the weight range of the animal it comes from, it could weigh as little as 12lbs or as much as 20+

[Pam R]

I'm sure the wagyu/kobe brisket would be wonderful but I think that we're missing a point here.

Fifi I think that USDA Prime brisket doesn't seem to exist because brisket is in fact a lesser cut. It USED to be one of the cheapest cuts around, which is why it's so popular in traditional peasant dishes.

In the days when they were setting up deli's there were a couple of issues - the meat had to be kosher (meaning only cuts from the front end of the cow) and it had to be cheap (no rib roasts used for corned beef). The brisket is a tough cut that requires a long slow cooking method. It's not the best meat in the cow.

I wouldn't worry too much about finding 'fancy' brisket - just get it from somebody you trust and you should be good to go.

[Carrot Top]

I'm sure the wagyu/kobe brisket would be wonderful but I think that we're missing a point here. 

Fifi I think that USDA Prime brisket doesn't seem to exist because brisket is in fact a lesser cut.  It USED to be one of the cheapest cuts around, which is why it's so popular in traditional peasant dishes.

In the days when they were setting up deli's there were a couple of issues - the meat had to be kosher (meaning only cuts from the front end of the cow) and it had to be cheap (no rib roasts used for corned beef).  The brisket is a tough cut that requires a long slow cooking method.  It's not the best meat in the cow.

I wouldn't worry too much about finding 'fancy' brisket - just get it from somebody you trust and you should be good to go.

←

Yes, of course, you are right!

Blinded by the glamour of it all I was.

I still do wonder, though, Pam, if there would be a taste difference between the Wagyu and the "usual". I always seek as interest the small detail of care (such as feed or housing or whatever) to see whether it does end up showing up in quality or taste or not. Just out of curiosity. I like the idea of inter-connectedness and am always trying to prove it.

Doesn't always work though.

[Shalmanese]

Interestingly Carrot-Top, I have heard that the Wagyu we get and grow here in Australia is not distinguishable from the 'Kobe' beef in Japan despite their massages and beer drinking. In fact Australia has just started exporting the best Wagyu to Japan and is getting top dollar for it.

←

I don't know about indistinguishable since I've never had proper Kobe but the Wagyu I get is noticably less marbled and less finely marbled that pics of Kobe I've seen on the web/tv. It's still amazingly good though and it's spoilt me for any other type of steak.

[Pam R]

I still do wonder, though, Pam, if there would be a taste difference between the Wagyu and the "usual".

There could be - but I don't know if any extra expense would be worth it (assuming it's extra... I've never seen a kosher Wagyu anything, so I don't know about the costs). I'm almost scared to tell you folks how much I have to sell kosher brisket for - you're probably able to buy Wagyu brisket for less than I buy kosher.

The 'usual' brisket has it's share of fat in it - so I don't know if there is any benefit in that area - and you just aren't going to find a tender brisket.

I'm interested in knowing though, if there is a difference - so if somebody wants to take one for the team and do a comparison that'd be great

[ronnie_suburban]

I've cooked and smoked so many non-varietal, non-graded briskets over the years (usually with great success), that I am definitely curious to try an upgraded version. But I'm a bit skeptical about whether there would be a discernable difference or not.

Still, $2.95 per pound isn't much more than I pay for locally-sourced stuff, so unless the S&H is absolutely outrageous, it won't be a big sacrifice to try the stuff available through the link provided by dls above (thank you, btw ).

My #1 local butcher is excellent and he did source for me 2 whole briskets. But, even though I asked him not to trim them at all, he did so anyway and they were much "neater" than I wanted them (didn't discover this until after I got them home). In this case I was smoking them. After the fact, I mentioned to him that they'd been trimmed and that my final product came out a bit dry. He admitted to trimming them because he felt bad "selling" me all that fat. I explained that the next time, he shouldn't trim them at all because you "need" the fat when smoking them for 16+ hours. Reluctantly, but with a smile, he agreed. We'll see if he comes through next time.

But, a whole, untrimmed brisket is really only optimal for smoking, IMO. For the traditional "jewish-style" braised brisket I do most often, I wouldn't want that much fat. Yes, I still want whole briskets but trimmed down is ideal.

Also, while I can't recall seeing a specifically Prime-grade brisket, I know some prime only butcher shops which must -- by default -- sell it. If they're breaking down prime sides in-house, then the briskets produced from those sides must also be as prime as briskets can be. Just ask your butcher and he'll give you plenty of information.

=R=

[Carrot Top]

Also, while I can't recall seeing a specifically Prime-grade brisket, I know some prime only butcher shops which must -- by default -- sell it.  If they're breaking down prime sides in-house, then the briskets produced from those sides must also be as prime as briskets can be.  Just ask your butcher and he'll give you plenty of information.

=R=

←

Sad thing is, that there are no real butchers here where I live. And no, it is not the boondocks either.

The "butchers" work in grocery stores and in the past it has been shown that I have to give them very specific directions to the point of diagrams drawn on even minor things such as how to butterfly a leg of lamb.

Doesn't surprise me, though. The "chef" at the local Japanese steakhouse did not know what I was talking about when I mentioned Kobe beef to him, either.

Yes, a strange world.

Ah, you lucky city folk!

[wesza]

Doc-G:

I suggest that you check the Australian/New Zealand Export Meat Guides [i tried checking but it takes two long to download on ISP].

In Australia there are "Kosher Butchers" that break the forequarter and sell retail very similar "Whole Briskets" comparable to the USA Kosher Briskets suitable for smoking.

There are containers of Briskets being exported regularly into the United States, being cut to American Meat guide specifications. Any exporter should be able to supply your requirement of a "Packer Brisket" or similar cut. [There "Jobber" or "Close Trimmed"]

Since I don't have a guide handy I remember that even the Domestic Australian Guides have "Brisket" in Boneless/Deckle Off. Whole with 10 Ribs, Navel End and several other variations. The Navel End in used for Pastrami Traditionally.

In the American Meat Guides [uSDA] the show how the Brisket is butchered for commercial use: The Brisket most favored for smokers is called the "Packer Cut" it has more exterior fat then the Briskets used for Corned Beef, but smokers prefer the extra fat at it gives the meat more flavor smoking especially since it should smoke long enough at a low temperature to allow the collagen to break down slowly the extra fat avoids drying out during the process.

Most smokers often turn the Beef as the majority of fat lays on the top of the Brisket.

If this doesn't get you the necessary information I will be returning home next week where I have a Australian Meat Guide and look up the information.

Good luck and please post about your results on eGullet.

Irwin

[Pam R]

In Australia there are "Kosher Butchers" that break the forequarter and sell retail very similar "Whole Briskets" comparable to the USA Kosher Briskets suitable for smoking.

I mentioned this to my sister today - she lived in Melbourne for a while and tells me that her kosher butcher had the same cuts of brisket that we get and resell here. It's worth a shot checking in with them.

[budrichard]

I have never seen a brisket labeled Prime for sale in the US and the butchers tell me it doesn't come graded. I have seen some labeled choice and they smoked very well.

In terms of Kobe beef, I don't care what anyone tells you, you can't obtain real beef from the prefecture of Kobe, Japan in the US, PERIOD. The Waygu we can obtain while very good is in no way marbeled like true Kobe beef. If you are familiar with O-Toro and the way it is marbeled, then that's how Kobe beef should be marbeled. Lobels used to sell Waygu ffrom Australia that was not frozen and we used it a lot, both whole tenderloins and briskets. Now they source thier Waygu from someplace else. The way the Waygu from the US is shipped to Japan is live for finishing in the prefecture of Kobe so it can be called Kobe beef. I suspect that is the same with the beef shipped from Australia to Japan.

I have smoked Waygu briskets from Lobels and they were excellent! We have a party comeing up and the price quoted @ $2.95/# is interesting.

Another thing to remember is that within the prime grading in the US there is a range of Prime. Last Friday I discussed this subject with the butcher at Mitsuwa in Illinois. I purchased a Waygu Prime Rib Roast at $19.95/#. That was the bottom Prime which is what Mitsuwa orders. The top Prime would have cost $40/#.

No matter where or what grade your brisket is, the important thing is to obtain the brisket as a Primal cut cryovac wrapped with the Fat Cap left on. No fat, no good for smoking, better to corn and serve as corned beef. -Dick

[alanz]

Normally the briskets I get are 14 to 18 lbs.:

Which when smoked starts looking like this (about 10 hours into an 18 hour cook):

I often get brisket from our local prime butcher. Granted one of the joys of making BBQ is taking a really tough piece of meat and turning it into a delicious meal. However, starting with prime meat (or great ingredients of any kind) is a great leg up on the process and the results (and guests) benefit.

[Doc-G]

I just bought two tonnes of beef trim for work which we use for making sausages, beef patties and burgers etc. When it got delivered my production manager came running to me me all excited after the conversation I had with him last week about how I wanted to learn how to smoke Beef Briskets like the Americans do. He said come and look at this:

Whilst we did not specifically order brisket, we ended up with 2 pallets of it. I thought this is a little more like what you guys are using.

This one was 9 pounds and is deckle off and untrimmed.

After having a discussion with my production manager, he confirmed what I had seen which was that even with the deckle on, a full brisket off the cow is a hell of a lot bigger than this. This had been cut down significantly and obviously was also missing the deckle.

I might have some pictures next week of a full brisket. I will then be able to point out the bits that you guys use.

Anyway, the outset is that I set aside about 10 of these which I will start to use as soon as I get our smoking oven sorted out. I will also be able to get these when I want from our suppliers.

I will keep you guys posted when I get down to cooking them.

Cheers,

Doc-G