Per Se ends tipping in favor of service charge

[Fat Guy]

Nobody is trying to guilt you into anything. However, in a pooled situation you aren't effectively punishing a server by leaving a smaller tip. The server may just assume you're a cheap bastard who always tips low. Much better to complain to a manager. One of many good conseqences of service charges is that they make it much more likely that customers will articulate their complaints. This gives managers more opportunities for customer service and interaction than they currently have under the passive-aggressive tipping system.

Example: Mr. Smith goes to Joe's Burger Shack, orders a burger medium-rare, gets it well-done, says nothing, eats it, leaves a 10% tip, vacates the premises. Waitstaff conclusion: Mr. Smith is a cheap bastard who tips 10%.

Example: Mr. Smith goes to Joe's Burger Shack, orders a burger medium-rare, gets it well-done, says nothing, eats it, sees a 20% service charge on his bill, complains to manager that he had poor service and resents the service charge. Opportunity! Manager apologizes for the kitchen's mistake, offers Mr. Smith a coupon for a free burger on his next visit and explains that servers don't cook your food. Manager further explains that any time Mr. Smith has a problem with his food he should send it back immediately and it will be graciously replaced.

[rich]

Rich, I hasten to add that Professor Lynn also has several years of experience as a waiter (in Austin, Texas). It's just that after being a waiter, he went ahead and got a Ph.D. in social psychology with a minor in statistics, philosophy and sociology, and has done more academic research on tipping than anybody else in the world. He doesn't appear to have any agendas -- I'm not sure I've ever seen him say he opposes or favors tipping. He just seems to find the whole issue interesting and worth of study.

←

I'm sure his credentials are impeccable and his studies noteworthy. What I doubt is the veracity of the information provided to him by wait staff and customers. More and more studies that involve people's political opinions, social behavior, morals, voting records and, yes, spending habits are being questioned because people have become more wary of "media-type groups and surveys." We are becoming a more private society every day - maybe the realities of our fragility have taken a toll.

It's also possible tipping is different in Austin than in NYC.

[JohnL]

At this point--I still believe that what would be ideal:

--Restaurants charge for the meal: all prices on the menu reflect all the restaurant's costs of doing business plus whatever profit.

The restaurant pays its employees.

NO TIPPING

The bill reflects one cost plus tax. That is what the customer pays!

I do undertstand that this would not be as simple to implement given competitive pricing with other restaurants but the Per Se method is a step in the right direction from a consumner standpoint.

Again--I must say that as a diner --I really do not care about "pooling" vs not pooling anymore than I care if employees are paind weekly or bi weekly.

Am I totally wrong about this???

[rich]

Nobody is trying to guilt you into anything. However, in a pooled situation you aren't effectively punishing a server by leaving a smaller tip. The server may just assume you're a cheap bastard who always tips low. Much better to complain to a manager. One of many good conseqences of service charges is that they make it much more likely that customers will articulate their complaints. This gives managers more opportunities for customer service and interaction than they currently have under the passive-aggressive tipping system.

Example: Mr. Smith goes to Joe's Burger Shack, orders a burger medium-rare, gets it well-done, says nothing, eats it, leaves a 10% tip, vacates the premises. Waitstaff conclusion: Mr. Smith is a cheap bastard who tips 10%.

Example: Mr. Smith goes to Joe's Burger Shack, orders a burger medium-rare, gets it well-done, says nothing, eats it, sees a 20% service charge on his bill, complains to manager that he had poor service and resents the service charge. Opportunity! Manager apologizes for the kitchen's mistake, offers Mr. Smith a coupon for a free burger on his next visit and explains that servers don't cook your food. Manager further explains that any time Mr. Smith has a problem with his food he should send it back immediately and it will be graciously replaced.

←

Your example sites a situation that has nothing to do with poor service. If a piece of meat is overcooked, that's not the waiter's fault and he should not be penalized for such. Second, you make the quantum leap that the manager will comp the diner a free meal next time - huge leap of faith.

What about the waiter who is lazy? Fails to comply with a request? Forgets to bring over the pepper mill? Neglects to place your appetizer order? Disappears when you want your check? And asks if you want change back after he takes the money for the check?

That's how a waiter should be judged, not whether the meat is burned.

Edited August 10, 2005 by rich (log)

[Boris_A]

Just to give an input about gray-in-gray solutions:

A tipping charge of 14% was introduced in Switzerland about 30 years ago (by federal law). Today, when service is mediocre to poor/indifferent (but no reason to really complain), you don't tip. When service is correct, one tips additional 2-3%. When service is excellent, one adds a tip of up to 10% (usually a personal tip collected individually by the waiter). Wages consist of an guaranteed part and the 14% tip. Some restaurants calculate the tip individually, others pool it.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Boris_A (log)

[hazardnc]

Not that I plan on eating at Per Se anytime soon but since I don't agree with the flat rate service charge I will take my dining dollars elsewhere

Voila! Problem solved.

If you dine at an establishment that charges 20% service charge for all tables, and you receive poor service, you have options including complaining to management and/or NEVER DINING THERE AGAIN

BTW, I guess those of you opposed to automatice service charges never order hotel room service. In my experience, 18% service charge has been the norm for many, many years.

[rich]

Just to give an input about gray-in-gray solutions:

A tipping charge of 14% was introduced in Switzerland about 30 years ago (by federal law). Today, when service is mediocre to poor/indifferent (but no reason to really complain), you don't tip. When service is correct, one tips additional 2-3%. When service is excellent, one adds a tip of up to 10% (usually a personal tip collected individually by the waiter). Wages consist of an guaranteed part and the 14% tip. Some restaurants calculate the tip individually, others pool it.

←

Except for it being mandatory, the same system (15% must) I had the restaurant implement in the late 60's. The 15% was pooled and you kept the rest of what YOU earned by being a good waiter. Why this concept is so hard for people to comprehend is confusing.

Thank you Boris.

[rich]

BTW, I guess those of you opposed to automatice service charges never order hotel room service.  In my experience, 18% service charge has been the norm for many, many years.

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That's because no one in their right mind would ever tip 18% to the guy that just wheels up the food and drops most of it on the elevator floor.

[ingridsf]

Your example sites a situation that has nothing to do with poor service. If a piece of meat is overcooked, that's not the waiter's fault and he should not be penalized for such. Secondly, you making the quantum leap that the manager will comp the diner a free meal next time - huge leap of faith.

What about the waiter who is lazy? Fails to comply with a request? Forgets to bring over the pepper mill? Neglects to place your appetizer order? Disappears when you want your check? And asks if you want change back after he takes the money for the check?

That's how a waiter should be judged, not whether the meat is burned.

←

I agree the server should not be penalized for the kitchen's error. But the current system invites it. And my circle of acquaintances include many otherwise considerate people who morph into Judge Judys at tip time. They have no hesitation at tipping 10-15% for a perceived lack of caring -- aka "poor attitude" --on the server's part. My boss takes potential hires out to eat before making an offer. She says their behavior to service staff is telling about their character.

As for the solution for poor service, it's simple: Have a word with the manager before leaving. The job of a supervisor is to correct poor performance or terminate the employee. If you're really cheesed off, don't go back. If management doesn't care about your complaint, an individual server is the least of that business's worries.

Bottom line: You don't get to negotiate the cost of a bypass, plumbing repair, customer service assistance, or movie concession soda after receiving the service. Food/bev service is an essential component of a restaurant dining purchase, and should not be subject to the individual diner's whim. (And I'm speaking as a diner, not an industry person.)

[rich]

Bottom line:  You don't get to negotiate the cost of a bypass, plumbing repair, customer service assistance, or movie concession soda after receiving the service.  Food/bev service is an essential component of a restaurant dining purchase, and should not be subject to the individual diner's whim.  (And I'm speaking as a diner, not an industry person.)

←

No problem with that, then have it built-in to the cost. Let the restaurant owner pay the waitstaff as "real employees" (as he/she should) and allow the staff to keep whatever dollars they can make by virtue of their own talents.

Or add 15% as a service charge and use the Bern's formula of stating a gratuity is a reward for fine service - and that additional portion (if any) should be kept by the individual wait person.

[Laksa]

After reading through reams of a very interesting discussion, I begin to wonder how often members find themselves veering from their usual tip amount. That is, if you tip 15% for adequate service, how often do you find yourself tipping more because you received better service or less for a poorer one?

In my experience, the quality of service at standard neighbourhood and casual dining restaurants is fairly uniform. It's exceedingly rare to encounter service that stood out for being exceptionally good or egregiously bad. I cannot remember the last time I had wanted to change my usual percentage amount.

However, I find that the servers at fine dining restaurants are a class apart. They project genuine concern for my dining experience. There's some kind of inscrutable magic that they do that makes me feel comfortable and very happy to be eating at their restaurant. Maybe they've attended the better acting schools, I don't know. So I leave them a bigger tip (but one which, again, doesn't vary much from one fine dining establishment to another).

Edited August 10, 2005 by Laksa (log)

[rich]

After reading through reams of a very interesting discussion, I begin to wonder how often members find themselves veering from their usual tip amount.  That is, if you tip 15% for adequate service, how often do you find yourself tipping more because you received better service or less for a poorer one?

In all the discussions, that was mentioned infrequently. I posted something about it much earlier.

I've left less than 15% one time in my life - for a waitress (who was very pretty) who was rude, arrogant and simply made the experience hateful. But, I must emphasize, it had nothing to do with the quality of the food (which, actually was very good).

Saying that, I will always throw in another $5, 10, 20 (whatever is appropriate based on the check amount) when someone goes out of their way to help make the dining experience more pleasurable and fun. After all, isn't eating out about having fun? How often does that happen? Probably one in every three/four.

Edited August 10, 2005 by rich (log)

[rich]

Just thought this was important to add after re-reading some of the posts. I made some of my best tips when the kitchen made an error. I made sure I went out of my way to correct it and made the customer feel that she/he was getting special attention because of that error.

I thought I was being a good waiter and then getting rewarded for such, but unfortunately, no study or Mr. Lynn ever questioned me, so I guess it didn't happen. Just anecdotal probably. Similar to a tree falling in the woods making no sound because no one was there to hear it.

[sammy]

Bottom line: You don't get to negotiate the cost of a bypass, plumbing repair, customer service assistance, or movie concession soda after receiving the service. Food/bev service is an essential component of a restaurant dining purchase, and should not be subject to the individual diner's whim. (And I'm speaking as a diner, not an industry person.)

Let's remember that the reason for tipping to begin with stems from a restaurants desire to have the service staff's compensation to be funded by the customer, not the restaurant. Sure, it makes all the sense in the world to have the restaurant pay the service staff a salary like they do the reservationist and the cooks but the last thing the restaurant owner wants is another fixed cost.

What Keller is doing is somewhat insulting to me as a consumer as he is maintaining the status quo by not adding another fixed cost into his business operation yet imposing his view of what his service staff is worth on the customer.

[Fat Guy]

Sammy, I agree he doesn't go far enough. But he deserves credit for moving ahead of the curve. Maybe someday he'll go all the way.

[sammy]

And Keller is in a unique position to go all the way. His restaurant is always sold out so he runs very little risk adding additional fixed cost because he has a rock solid estimate of what his revenue will be. Other restaurants that have the potential for lots of empty tables don't have that luxury.

Edited August 10, 2005 by sammy (log)

[Fat Guy]

Couldn't agree with you more. He should have just taken the plunge.

[rich]

What Keller is doing is somewhat insulting to me as a consumer as he is maintaining the status quo by not adding another fixed cost into his business operation yet imposing his view of what his service staff is worth on the customer.

←

Excellent point and he can keep his wait staff as virtual independent contractors and not worry about payroll taxes etc. Plus he's now added the chefs and other kitchen staff to the mix - I'm sure the wait staff will be enamored. But you're right, as always, the consumers ultimately pay the freight.

I hope the chef, sous chefs and line cooks don't want a raise soon - then it will be a mandatory 25%.

Do you think the next step will be to change the name from Per Se to Keller's Commune?

Edited August 10, 2005 by rich (log)

[Holly Moore]

I am coming into this discussion late. I have tried to read the whole thread. But it is so long and my attention span is so short. I apologize if/where I am simply repeating what others have said.

1. I like control - all kinds of control including awarding a server for exceptional service and penalizing a server for lousy service. With voluntary tipping I have such control. With a service charge, unless I want to get into a dialogue with a manager, I give up much of that control. I don't like to give up control.

2. Penalty tipping, even when there is pooling, does penalize a poor server. Not directly. But as I was quoted at the start of this thread, servers who are pulling in low tips because of bad service will soon be recognized by their fellow servers. Soon after they will either shape up or ship out.

3. Tipping or service charges are really just a game everyone plays - kidding themselves. A better label would be "Salary Adjustment." A mandatory service charge, especially, has nothing to do with "To Insure Proper Service" (Tips). The service charge simply adds enough value to a server's very low wage to make the job worthwhile. The nature of the restaurant business, since Adam served his first order of ribs, has been for servers to rely on gratuities. When I fly, a cabin attendant brings me my food and beverages. He/she does not expect a tip. It is included in the cabin attendant's salary. It's the nature of the beast that servers rely on tips and no smart restauranteur is going to take the lead and do away with tipping and, rather, pay servers much more and reflect that in new, higher menu prices.

4. When I started out tipping, back when Adam was serving up that first rib, 15% was considered a good tip. Along the way the percentage went to 18% and now it is 20%, maybe more. I am not sure why that has happened. I don't believe servers have improved. Logically restaurant prices have kept up with inflation and the cost of living. Since tips are based on restaurant prices, servers' wages have done the same. So why the extra 5 percent? What great strides in service have led to an overall 33% increase in gratuities? I suggest it is a yuppy, keeping ahead of the Jones' thing.

5. The Page 6 piece doesn't talk about the pay scale of servers versus other staff. Typically servers are paid very low wages by the restaurant - lower than bus people and kitchen workers - because of the amount of money servers make in tips. For Keller's system to work, servers would have to be pulling in a wage representative of their skill. Then sharing everything equally makes a lot of sense.

6. With a service charge - or even with pooled tips - how can I recognize a server who goes way above and beyond for my table? On the honor system - any money he gets has to go into the pool. Other than a hearty handshake and a gracious "thank you" how can I do what tipping was intended to do in the first place?

7. Now that Keller is charging a service charge - just like crusted fish and flavored martini's - it will become the suave, "in" thing. A restaurant that doesn't add a service charge may soon be viewed as, and perhaps view itself as, a lesser restaurant. Old hat. Yesterday's restaurant.

[ingridsf]

Tipping 20 percent is not common practice in my experience. When I've suggested it, I've often gotten a raised eyebrow and a comment along the lines of, "She wasn't that great, you know. Fifteen's plenty. And I'm not made of money, so I vote for ten." Or, "It's a family-run place -- they're paying each other fine." Again, I don't get to pay my cable provider less when a show sucks -- or when their customer service agent is less than...interested in serving me, shall we say. I tend to tip the same amount; problems go to the manager. I have left more than 20 on a few occasions, and also bought a round of beers for the kitchen staff as well.

I can't argue about the personal pleasures of control. But I'm disturbed by the idea of determining compensation through whim, be it to reward or punish.

Reward good service the way I get rewarded in my job -- compliments to my boss that get passed on to me; repeat business; and good word of mouth. If you really want, leave some cash on the server's table -- and figure out how the rest of us can get in on such special thank-yous!

edited for typos and more stuff.

Edited August 10, 2005 by ingridsf (log)

[sammy]

Tipping 20 percent is not common practice in my experience.  When I've suggested it, I've often gotten a raised eyebrow and a comment aong the lines of, "She wasn't that great, you know.  Fifteen's plenty.  And I'm not made of money, so I vote for ten."  Or, "It's a family-run place -- they're paying each other fine."  Again, I don't get to pay my cable provider when a show sucks -- or when their customer service agent is less than...interested in serving me, shall we say.  I tend to tip the same amount; problems go to the manager.  I have left more than 20 on a few occasions, and also bought a round of beers for the kitchen staff as well.

←

Do you live in South Florida?

[Carrot Top]

4.  When I started out tipping, back when Adam was serving up that first rib, 15% was considered a good tip.  Along the way the percentage went to 18% and now it is 20%, maybe more.  I am not sure why that has happened.  I don't believe servers have improved.  Logically restaurant prices have kept up with inflation and the cost of living.  Since tips are based on restaurant prices, servers' wages have done the same.  So why the extra 5 percent?  What great strides in service have led to an overall 33% increase in gratuities?  I suggest it is a yuppy, keeping ahead of the Jones' thing.

Your last sentence rather struck a nerve.

I do leave 20% all the time unless service has been totally obnoxious or somehow totally outstanding (neither of these extremes has happened in my recent memory, though I do once remember leaving absolutely nothing to a totally obnoxious server many years ago and also remember another time leaving a $100. bill on the table once on Christmas Eve "just because". . .)

Why 20 rather than 15? I am old enough to remember the 15. Yes, I think its a yuppie thing. Or something that has to do with culture, society and guilt. . .(misplaced guilt, for some servers likely have more money in their pocket than I do, especially if they work at Per Se. . . but nonetheless, something to do with that sort of feeling.)

One feels like. . ."If I've got enough money to eat here, then I've got enough money to tip well, too". Not always TRUE, but definitely part of the experience. . .

I am definitely edging towards the view that tipping has more to do with one's personality, background, and/or mood than the actual realities of the service experience.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Carrot Top (log)

[rich]

4.  When I started out tipping, back when Adam was serving up that first rib, 15% was considered a good tip.  Along the way the percentage went to 18% and now it is 20%, maybe more.  I am not sure why that has happened.  I don't believe servers have improved.  Logically restaurant prices have kept up with inflation and the cost of living.  Since tips are based on restaurant prices, servers' wages have done the same.  So why the extra 5 percent?  What great strides in service have led to an overall 33% increase in gratuities?  I suggest it is a yuppy, keeping ahead of the Jones' thing.

Your last sentence rather struck a nerve.

I do leave 20% all the time unless service has been totally obnoxious or somehow totally outstanding (neither of these extremes has happened in my recent memory, though I do once remember leaving absolutely nothing to a totally obnoxious server many years ago and also remember another time leaving a $100. bill on the table once on Christmas Eve "just because". . .)

Why 20 rather than 15? I am old enough to remember the 15. Yes, I think its a yuppie thing. Or something that has to do with culture, society and guilt. . .(misplaced guilt, for some servers likely have more money in their pocket than I do, especially if they work at Per Se. . . but nonetheless, something to do with that sort of feeling.)

One feels like. . ."If I've got enough money to eat here, then I've got enough money to tip well, too". Not always TRUE, but definitely part of the experience. . .

I am definitely edging towards the view that tipping has more to do with one's personality, background, and/or mood than the actual realities of the service experience.

←

Maybe that's the key! The Yuppie crowd leaves tips because of the aforementioned and my crowd (50's) leaves tips based on the service.

Where's that study when I need one????

Edited August 10, 2005 by rich (log)

[fiftydollars]

I previously chimed in with my observation that The French Laundromat has long had a service charge. But reading through the posts it seems I missed something… Is Thomas Keller really discontinuing the practice of tipping at Per Se? Is he taking out the gratuity line off the check that at TFL is reserved for whatever you feel like giving over that 18%? Or is he just adopting TFL’s M.O. at Per Se?

If he’s still giving you a place to throw in a gratuity, then it is not quite right to say he is eliminating tipping. He is basically establishing a standard where his service is worth at the very minimum X number of dollars. He’s establishing a minimum that his servers should be paid. Then gives you a chance to add more on top of that minimum. This is an issue separate from the pooling issue, which is controversial in and of itself without introducing a tip minimum. I don’t disagree with a tip minimum in a setting such as TFL and Per Se where you are being provided a very unique service and where this is understood as part of the implied contract when you decide to dine there. I am certain that absent a tip minimum the diners at Per Se and TFL would often fall shy of the 18% minimum that Keller believes their service is worth. This is similar to why they substantially raised their corkage fee. Back when the Chronicle first reviewed Per Se in 1994 I seem to recall reading that the corkage was $4. But people started bringing in bottles of wines of embarrassing quality and TK decided a higher corkage would help insure that his customers brought their A game to TFL. He’s trying to raise the bar… at least in regard to the tip minimum. I agree with that within the context of his operations, which strive to raise the bar across the board. He demands a lot of himself, his staff, and it seems, his patrons. I would not agree to this for long within the context of lesser outfits. If Denny’s announced they were doing away with tips and bringing in a service charge, my reaction would probably be quite different.

[markovitch]

FG, i thought your piece was interesting, and very well written.

I would like to bring to attention a very well written and interesting rebuttal.

Disclaimer: I'm not the waiter, nor do I take a side. Just and FYI to all.

Edited August 11, 2005 by markovitch (log)