North African food in America

zeitoun · July 13, 2005

So I am pretty sure that if someone came up with the idea of couscous delivery in New York for instance (Farid? tongue.gif )
He's saving up for a bicycle.
←

:biggrin:

He'll be too busy in the kitchen! Let's see...we already have three bicycles at home (no kidding), :hmmm: so that's makes one for me, one for my wife, and one for you!

I think we already have a pretty solid business plan...

divalasvegas · July 13, 2005

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest and appreciate being enlightened as to why certain cuisines just don't take off in the U.S. or always seem to be hanging just below the surface as someone said upthread. The area where I live, overall, has residents and visitors who've come here from all over the world, as well as "natives" who are well traveled and familiar with non-American cultures. I agree with many of the reasons set forth here as to why North African cuisine hasn't "taken off": marketing, similarity to another cuisine already deemed "acceptable," the fast/food delivery aspect and so on. There is yet another reason I think.

IMHO, I think that the word "African" has many stereotypical, negative, or downright racist connotations for a lot of people, and I don't think you have to live in a mono-ethnic, blue collar neighborhood to think this way. I've actually heard on more than one occasion people say ugly things like "African food!? So, like what do they eat? Monkey? Hahahaha." Yeah, really funny. Or refer to Africa as if it were a country, not a continent with many traditions and cultures. Unfortunately, I think for many Africa is still that big, strange, mysterious "Dark Continent" which may cause a lot of people to shy away from some really wonderful cuisines out of sheer prejudice and ignorance.

Almass · July 13, 2005

The way the N.African cuisine is perceived is of course with the Tajeen, Couscous...etc and it is not perceived as a "spicy" or "hot" cuisine but more as an exotic cuisine in the sense of amalgamating both nuts and fruits.

It also so happens that N.African cuisine is not percieved as a Middle East or Mediterranean or Levant cuisine and at the same time it is also not perceived as typically African so it sits somewhere in between.

N.African cuisine has connotations of being heavy, fatty and filling and although succulent in every way. The question to be asked is whether it is still more of a home cuisine than a restaurant one?

Granted that Morocco is already a well travelled country. Maybe the phenomenon has to do more with the opening of Tunisia/Algeria and even Lybia and the influx of tourists to these countries and the trials of their respective cuisines in local restaurants and not in "all inclusive" hotels with their mishmash of Intl buffets.

You would go to a Moroccan restaurant and not to a North African restaurant or a Tunisian or Algerian or even Lybian to that matter.

So is North African cuisine as a concept still searching for it's identity?

Edited July 13, 2005 by Almass (log)

sharding · July 13, 2005

Most people in the US don't have a clue what North African food is. And, sad as it may be, most people in the US are going to look for something familiar when they choose a place to go eat. That's one reason that chains are popular. But it extends beyond chains. Almost everyone in the US knows roughly what to expect if they go to an "Italian" or "Mexican" restaurant. But I bet if I walked down the hall here at work and asked them what they'd get at a North African restaurant, very few people could tell me.

Foodies like us are up for adventures in dining. We like experiencing new cuisines and eating things we've never eaten before. But I think that isn't true of the general US population, so restaurants at which people don't know what to expect aren't likely to be popular with non-foodies. I'd guess it's a very gradual process to build awareness of a cuisine before it's really understood by most people here.

chefzadi · July 14, 2005

I don't have time to make an in depth post at the moment. I have another class to teach.

I'll quickly add that understanding North African food is not rocket science. We can talk and talk about it. But when more knowledgeable diners, especially in urban areas see the food, most of it will be recognizable.

As for the perception that North African is heavy and fatty, hmmm...I've only heard that one from people who've been to Morocco or read old Moroccan cookbooks.

It's not like Americans have a clear idea of what Moroccan is anyway. I know I teach people how to cook Moroccan, Algerian and Tunisian. These people include other Magrhebis straight outta North Africa.

It's not like all cuisines that are well known in America translate well into smaller towns, most probably don't.

As for North African being more home cuisine than restaurant cuisine, a visit to France can provide an answer.

Edited July 14, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

SuzySushi · July 14, 2005

The funny thing is, recipes for couscous (using instant, of course) and "Moroccan-style ______" have already made it into mainstream women's magazines such as Woman's Day and Family Circle.

I hate to say it, but I think Divalasvegas is correct in saying that the word "African" has negative connotations for a lot of Americans. In addition, I remember back when there were more Middle Eastern restaurants in Manhattan. Several of the Lebanese restaurants went out of business after the American hostage situation in Lebanon. A Persian restaurant closed when the Ayatollahs took over Iran. And the aftermath of 9/11 has not been kind to Middle Eastern restaurants and grocery stores.

Here in Hawaii, an Egyptian family owns a Greek restaurant near the University. It's "Greek" because they said that when they opened it (15+ years ago), "Middle Eastern" food would have been too foreign and unacceptable to people here. The same family owns an Egyptian restaurant opened about 10 years ago that, yes, features belly dancing at night. Moroccan restaurants have come and gone; there's now one left in Kailua (the other side of Oahu from Honolulu, where rents are presumably lower and they draw a mostly neighborhood crowd).

So, while North African food has the potential to become popular -- especially when it comes to tagines and couscous -- I think a lot of marketing is needed to raise the awareness of American consumers.

chefzadi · July 14, 2005

So, while North African food has the potential to become popular -- especially when it comes to tagines and couscous -- I think a lot of marketing is needed to raise the awareness of American consumers.

Let's change the title of the thread to Maghrebi cuisine. The comments here about "African" and "Middle Eastern" having negative connonations doesn't surprise me. I posted African on purpost. I can just as well go for Algerian and leave it at that, I've asked Zinadine Zidane to help me promote Algerian food. Isabelle Adjani is more beautiful than Betty Crocker and she has agreed to be the face of Algerian cuisine. :wink:

touaregsand · July 14, 2005

So I am pretty sure that if someone came up with the idea of couscous delivery in New York for instance (Farid? tongue.gif )
He's saving up for a bicycle.
←
He'll be too busy in the kitchen! Let's see...we already have three bicycles at home (no kidding), so that's makes one for me, one for my wife, and one for you!
I think we already have a pretty solid business plan...
←

We can call it "caravan express."

Hey, if the food is good, it's a surefire cash cow.

chefzadi · July 14, 2005

.So in the case of North African--
Can this cuisine be "reduced" to a identifier?
Say: "North African food it's like-----only-----.
←
perhaps i'm the only one who thinks this way, but to me
Moroccan food has a strong resemblance to some North Indian
cooking styles, but a little tweaked.
Whenever I read a recipe for a "tagine" style dish I am struck
by the resemblance of the spice list to North Indian masala-fied
preparations.
There are some key differences of course, but just to my ignorant
eyes, nose, and mouth, there seem to be marked similarities.
But much less fire.
So, don't know if Chefzadi or others would agree but would you say
"sort of like Indian but ...
milder
or
more subtle
or.."
milagai
←

Milagai,

I can see why you would describe it that way. I've been learning about Indian cuisines from Episure and Gautam especially. All of us understand cuisine through own experiences. I used the think that Indian food was all heavily spiced and hot compared to Magrhebi cuisine, but that's not that's not true either based on the Indian homecooking I've had more recently.

There are any number of Magrhebi dishes that you would be able to recognize as having an Indian counterpart. The spicing would be different, but that depends on the cook.

Pilavs (Pilau in Indian?), flat breads (some are similar to Rotis, parathas), koftas, etc..

I think comparing Indian and Magrhebi cuisine/culture is an interesting discussion, one that I've had on other boards. But I doubt the vast majoirty of people from the outside would know enough about Indian and Magherbi cuisines to understand what we are talking about and probably get even more confused.

chefzadi · July 14, 2005

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest and appreciate being enlightened as to why certain cuisines just don't take off in the U.S. or always seem to be hanging just below the surface as someone said upthread. The area where I live, overall, has residents and visitors who've come here from all over the world, as well as "natives" who are well traveled and familiar with non-American cultures. I agree with many of the reasons set forth here as to why North African cuisine hasn't "taken off": marketing, similarity to another cuisine already deemed "acceptable," the fast/food delivery aspect and so on. There is yet another reason I think.
IMHO, I think that the word "African" has many stereotypical, negative, or downright racist connotations for a lot of people, and I don't think you have to live in a mono-ethnic, blue collar neighborhood to think this way. I've actually heard on more than one occasion people say ugly things like "African food!? So, like what do they eat? Monkey? Hahahaha." Yeah, really funny. Or refer to Africa as if it were a country, not a continent with many traditions and cultures. Unfortunately, I think for many Africa is still that big, strange, mysterious "Dark Continent" which may cause a lot of people to shy away from some really wonderful cuisines out of sheer prejudice and ignorance.
←

Diva-

I've said numerous times that I am African as well. Algerians consider themselves to Africans as well Arab/Berber, so do other Maghrebis. It wasn't untill I came to the States when I met a few saying that they were not African (yeah, whatever), some suddenly become 'Italian' or something. I am very aware of the negative connotations and unfortunately it comes from Black-Americans as well.

Suzy brings up some interesting points about the naming game for Middle Eastern places. :wink:

As far as cuisine is concerned though the common term is "Maghrebi cuisine" not North African anyway.

Also, everything about my experiences in bigger cities is that there is even more interest in North African cuisine than French cuisine. For every one recreational class on French cooking I teach, I'm asked to do ten on North African.

Edited July 14, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

chefzadi · July 14, 2005

One of the mistaken notions people have about Moroccan cooking is that it is
highly spicy. A few fish dishes are hot, but Moroccans, for the most part, actually seem to prefer sweetened foods.
Lots of spices are used but in very restrained proportions, and the emphasis is on the sweet. For example, to intensify the sweetness of certain tagines, a Moroccan cook will add a rich mixture of spices called ras el hanout. Just as every Indian cook has her own formula for curry, so each Moroccan has her own recipe for ras el hanout, but the spices used are more sweet than hot.
←

I think people get this impression from restaurant food which of course is usually not representative.

chefzadi · July 14, 2005

I think that the main factor behind the growing success of many ethnic foods in the US such as Chinese, Indian or Thai is that it has succeeded in making itself compatible with the almost quintessential idea of what an American meal should be: affordable, quick and easy.
I am somewhat convinced that the reason why some ethnic cuisines have become popular in the US is because they found a way to prosper on the fast food/delivery scene. I agree with Farid that the interest in NA food exists, there is no question about it. So I am pretty sure that if someone came up with the idea of couscous delivery in New York for instance (Farid? ), there would be a huge following. Couscous delivery is big business today in Paris for instance, check this out.
May be not the best way of featuring the wonderful world of North African cuisine, but at least this is one way of getting rid of the belly dancers and reaching out to a wider American public.
←

I agree and it's very easy to do and cost effective. Training staff to prepare a few authentically prepared 'signature' dishes really well while catering to the way Americans eat is entirely possible.

We'll need more than 3 bicycles. :wink:

touaregsand · July 15, 2005

The funny thing is, recipes for couscous (using instant, of course) and "Moroccan-style ______" have already made it into mainstream women's magazines such as Woman's Day and Family Circle.
I hate to say it, but I think Divalasvegas is correct in saying that the word "African" has negative connotations for a lot of Americans. In addition, I remember back when there were more Middle Eastern restaurants in Manhattan. Several of the Lebanese restaurants went out of business after the American hostage situation in Lebanon. A Persian restaurant closed when the Ayatollahs took over Iran. And the aftermath of 9/11 has not been kind to Middle Eastern restaurants and grocery stores.
Here in Hawaii, an Egyptian family owns a Greek restaurant near the University. It's "Greek" because they said that when they opened it (15+ years ago), "Middle Eastern" food would have been too foreign and unacceptable to people here. The same family owns an Egyptian restaurant opened about 10 years ago that, yes, features belly dancing at night. Moroccan restaurants have come and gone; there's now one left in Kailua (the other side of Oahu from Honolulu, where rents are presumably lower and they draw a mostly neighborhood crowd).
So, while North African food has the potential to become popular -- especially when it comes to tagines and couscous -- I think a lot of marketing is needed to raise the awareness of American consumers.
←

I've been thinking about your post, as well some of the other posts. I'm quoting you but I'm not directing all of my comments at your post.

I did a search on the Arab population. Doesn't surprise me at all that Los Angeles has a huge Arab/ Arab-American population. Arab-Americans represent a fairly affluent and well educated group of Americans. There is a great deal of diversity in the Arab community but this forum is not really the place to discuss this.

There are many Arab and Middle Eastern owned business in LA that cater to and thrive within their respective communities. Most seem to crossover with other Arab communitites. Others are simply Arab owned, but have nothing do with being Arab.

After more than 30 years in LA I barely notice foreign language signs. But for the past week or so I've been actively studying the signage of Arab/North African/Middle Eastern owned business. Most business names don't make a reference to a specific country, some refer to landmarks, a tiny few make a reference to a city, alot have an English that doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't speak Arabic, Armenian or Farsi. Sometimes signs are written in Arabic, Armenian and Spanish, no English. Sometimes in Hebrew, Farsi and Arabic.

The Middle Eastern (and to a lesser extent North African) restaurant scene reflects the diversity. Today I drove by restaurant after restaurant that have been open for as long as I can remember but never went to because there was little or no signage that I could understand. Clearly they are surving or thriving by catering to people from the source culture.

Then there is the other type of Middle Eastern/North African restaurant that caters to those outside of the source culture. These places usually refer to the Mediterranean in their names. They usually list names of dishes that are recognizable to outsiders. The dishes are usually on the windows, kebabs, pita, shawerma, taboule, hummus... As for North African restaurants in LA it's growing very slowly, but still growing. I can't think of a single North African restaurant that went out of business around here, I can think of a few that have expanded. Also many French restaurants serve a couple of North African dishes.

So "Middle Eastern" and "North African" may sound *yucky foreign* to some, but hey you know what you've been eating alot of the food without consciously being aware of the origins. Maghrebis and Mashriqis do share common dishes.

As for the 1001 Arabian nights, disco Riyad places places, why do celebrities flock to them so? :rolleyes:

Pan · July 15, 2005

JY, one quick and possibly mistaken reaction: LA does not typify the US. Actually, no diverse urban area typifies the US. Though I could be wrong.

Pam R · July 15, 2005

I've been following this thread and I find it really interesting. I would say that I know nothing about North African food. Would I like to? Yes. I have memories of eating in a bedouin tent. We had platters of wonderfully flavoured meats and vegetables and couscous that we ate with torn-off pieces of fresh flatbread - am I close?

I'd guess that the Arab population in Winnipeg is small (probably just a few thousand) ... There was one Lebanese family that opened a pita bakery / restaurant down the street from my family's own kosher place. But there definately isn't a strong presence in these parts.

The more I think about it though, the more I realize that many foods that I have always enjoyed, thinking of them as "Israeli" are the same foods that you're discussing in this thread. (Though not all, or course.) In most cities in North America with a good size-Jewish population there tends to be a restaurant or two selling falafel and shwarma and tebuleh and couscous and hummus etc. Coming from my background, I always think of these things as "Israeli", which I realize is somewhat skewed. Since Israel is surrounded by Arab countries and has Arab residents it obviously has a large Arab influence (as well as a large Eastern European, Russian thing).

My phonebook lists one Mediterranean restaurant - the Falafal Place - which is owned and operated by an Israeli. We have one Moroccan restaurant (which I didn't know about) and that's it. In a city of 700 000, there aren't many options.

Anyhow, the point is I'd like to know more! I'm looking forward to chefzadi teaching me

touaregsand · July 15, 2005

JY, one quick and possibly mistaken reaction: LA does not typify the US. Actually, no diverse urban area typifies the US. Though I could be wrong.
←

You're correct LA doesn't typify the US. In certain ways I wish it did. Underneath the glitz and BS of hollywood, there are so many so called ethnic communities that thrive in LA.

kellycolorado · July 15, 2005

I had a type of chicken tagine at the Paris CDG airport back in March- It was already cooked, absolutely delicious for airport food, and only cost about 7 euro. My last meal in Paris... sigh.

Couldn't a lot of north african food be served up "to go" style like the chinese steam tray places and other fast/casual places? I would be ecstatic and would love to see more restaurants here in the US.

By the way, other than Algeria and Morocco, what other countries' cuisines are considered North African?

I think that the main factor behind the growing success of many ethnic foods in the US such as Chinese, Indian or Thai is that it has succeeded in making itself compatible with the almost quintessential idea of what an American meal should be: affordable, quick and easy.
I am somewhat convinced that the reason why some ethnic cuisines have become popular in the US is because they found a way to prosper on the fast food/delivery scene.
←

chefzadi · July 15, 2005

I had a type of chicken tagine at the Paris CDG airport back in March- It was already cooked, absolutely delicious for airport food, and only cost about 7 euro. My last meal in Paris... sigh.
Couldn't a lot of north african food be served up "to go" style like the chinese steam tray places and other fast/casual places? I would be ecstatic and would love to see more restaurants here in the US.
By the way, other than Algeria and Morocco, what other countries' cuisines are considered North African?
I think that the main factor behind the growing success of many ethnic foods in the US such as Chinese, Indian or Thai is that it has succeeded in making itself compatible with the almost quintessential idea of what an American meal should be: affordable, quick and easy.
I am somewhat convinced that the reason why some ethnic cuisines have become popular in the US is because they found a way to prosper on the fast food/delivery scene.
←
←

Tunisia.

Tunisians, Moroccans and Algerians are Maghrebis (North Africans). We speak the same cuisine/culture/language with regional differences.

Yes, certain North African dishes can be served "to go" style. Any number of couscous 'joints' in France will tell you this. This sort of food is an introduction. If you like it maybe you will explore more in depth or maybe not.. :smile:

Edited July 15, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

divalasvegas · July 15, 2005

Chefzadi I have so many thoughts about what I have read so far by you and everyone on this fantastic and illuminating thread. I don't know where to start really; but here goes. I love my country, but one of the things that breaks my heart is when I hear that some people from other countries feel the need to almost redefine themselves racially/ethnically to adapt, fit in, or survive in this country, even though I know we're not the only country in the world where this is so. I guess we're still working on that melting pot experiment. Oh well, progress not perfection.

I had never even heard of the term "Magrebi cuisine" in my life until I learned it from you. The great thing about you is that you inspire me, and I know many, many others, to want to learn more.

There are so many great suggestions here as to how to get people to step outside of their comfort zone/misconceptions and just try something different. My take on this is that from a very young age I know that I always had the desire to try different cuisines and learn about the people and countries where those cuisines originated. How do you teach that? With children, anything is possible. With adults set in their ways, it's a much harder proposition.

I remember many years ago wondering about a strange, interesting looking exotic cuisine that I wanted to know more about, but didn't exactly know how to go about it. It was: Louisiana cajun and creole! :laugh: I had seen a couple of Louisiana chefs on tv--Justin Wilson, Paul Prudhomme--make these marvelous looking foods which at the time I had never tasted. File powder, jambalaya, boudin blanc? Where to start? I was blessed to be working with a native Louisianan who patiently explained to me: "no, the food isn't too spicy, just well seasoned" "no, adding the 'trinity' to a lot of our dishes doesn't make everything taste the same" and so on. I'm cringing right now when I remember the now seemingly ridiculous questions I asked her. She guided me to recipes and companies that made products widely used by Lousiana cooks and I never looked back. And I love spicy food now, the hotter, the better. Of course, the blackened redfish craze did wonders for making this cuisine nationally popular.

I know I've been rambling, but as I said at the outset I had many thoughts on this topic. [End rambling]

phaelon56 · July 15, 2005

One of the mistaken notions people have about Moroccan cooking is that it is highly spicy.

In conservative markets such as the one where I live the "but it's too spicy" misperception describes how most people perceive Afghani, Persian, Vietnamese, Thai, Jamaican and darn near any other cuisine that they have never tried.

On a business trip I actually convinced three of my colleagues ot join me at a Morroccan restaurant in Chicago. Had them finally convinced that it would not be "too spicy" and we'd already begun enjoying some mint tea with honey. Then the boss and a senior manager showed up and dragged us off (quite unceremoniously) to an Italian restaurant. Bummer. But very typical.

chefzadi · July 15, 2005

The more I think about it though, the more I realize that many foods that I have always enjoyed, thinking of them as "Israeli" are the same foods that you're discussing in this thread. (Though not all, or course.) In most cities in North America with a good size-Jewish population there tends to be a restaurant or two selling falafel and shwarma and tebuleh and couscous and hummus etc. Coming from my background, I always think of these things as "Israeli", which I realize is somewhat skewed. Since Israel is surrounded by Arab countries and has Arab residents it obviously has a large Arab influence (as well as a large Eastern European, Russian thing).

In LA there are many falafel places owned by various people from the Middle East. A placed called "Amir's Falafel" can easily be owned by an Israeli, an Armenian, a Palestinian, an Egyptian or even a Greek for example.

There are 2 Armenian owned chains that serve roast chicken along with the "standard" casual Middle Eastern list of foods, many of the ones you listed. I never really thought about it being from one country or another, untill someone pointed out to that the owners are Armenians from Lebanon and that the menu, the way the food is prepared and presented are totally Lebanese. But there's no big sign that says "LEBANESE FOOD" or "ARMENIAN FOOD" both businesses have been around for a long time. Some of the locations have an almost constant line of customers.

There are parts of town with a concentration of Jewish or Israeli businesses. One are that's particularly interesting is near Roberson and Pico, sometimes refered to as the "Kosher Block". There are (the last time I saw) two Iranian Jewish supermarkets, Eastern-European style Jewish delis, Kosher Chinese, etc.. It's an interesting mix and layering of old, new and diverse Jewish communties.

(As a note to Pam, didn't a lot of Maghrebi Jews settle in Israel bringing the dishes of North Africa with them? An American friend was asking me about this the other day. I told him about my Israeli friend who's mother was a Moroccan Jew and when she met me she hugged and kissed me all over saying "my son, my son" as if she could smell the bled on my skin. The Americans were really surprised to here this. I told them you can't understand culture and human interaction by just reading the newspaper from a distance.)

chefzadi · July 15, 2005

There are so many great suggestions here as to how to get people to step outside of their comfort zone/misconceptions and just try something different. My take on this is that from a very young age I know that I always had the desire to try different cuisines and learn about the people and countries where those cuisines originated. How do you teach that? With children, anything is possible. With adults set in their ways, it's a much harder proposition.

Well some people are just set in their ways and will never change. I've thinking about John's suggestion for a promo sound bite. Maybe it can be a group project in this thread/

America is such a big and diverse country. I suppose we can start in urban areas where there is already strong interest.

The French themed recreational classes I teach sell out too, but the cooking coordinators want more and more North African classes. They know about marketing better than I do, clearly they know there is interest and consumers spend money on it. There is already a customer base to tap into. (which includes the French in America as well)

melkor · July 15, 2005

People seem to be much more accepting of spicy than they are of sweet dishes. North African food is sweeter than it is spicy, it isn’t well known, and because there are so few of them, it can be difficult to find ones serving good food. Tagine is the newest North African restaurant in SF, the owner is Moroccan, the menu looks good but the food is mediocre. Two of the other North African restaurants in the city have recently closed.

The popular ethnic cuisines are all available from Sysco - you can buy a Chinese, Thai, Indian, Mexican restaurant over the phone and have a truck show up with everything you need to open the restaurant. The same isn't true for North African, Korean, Filipino, Peruvian, or any of the other lesser-known ethnic cuisines. Halal meat is harder to find and more expensive; line cooks need to be trained; the FOH staff needs to learn a new cuisine; it just isn’t a simple process to open a North African restaurant serving good food. Never mind how hard it is to find and educate customers.

We are also overlooking the role that the Vietnam War played in making Asian food in general successful here in the states…

chefzadi · July 15, 2005

North African food is sweeter than it is spicy,

Moroccan tends to be sweet. Morocco is a small part of North Africa.

Maybe the image problem here in America with some is that they've eaten too much mediocre Moroccan food.

As for fear of spicy as in hot, most dishes are not spicy and if customers want hot they can add it at the table with harisa or dirsa.

Also, the ingredients for alot of dishes are readily available. I can go to any regular supermarket to buy the ingredients for many dishes. Surely in most of America fresh meat and vegetables are available.

As for halal meat, at least in LA it's sometimes less expensive. Besides serving halal doesn't seem much of a concern for most NA restaurants.

As with any new 'trend' some will try to capitalize on it poorly, others will do it well.

Pam R · July 15, 2005

There are parts of town with a concentration of Jewish or Israeli businesses. One are that's particularly interesting is near Roberson and Pico, sometimes refered to as the "Kosher Block". There are (the last time I saw) two Iranian Jewish supermarkets, Eastern-European style Jewish delis, Kosher Chinese, etc.. It's an interesting mix and layering of old, new and diverse Jewish communties.

Side note - completely off topic - but Steven Spielberg's mother owns one of these kosher restaurants (I believe on Pico). If you're lucky and she's around (assuming she still owns it... it's been a few years since I've been there) she'll share wonderful stories with you.

(As a note to Pam, didn't a lot of Maghrebi Jews settle in Israel bringing the dishes of North Africa with them?

Absolutely. Israelies moved from all over the Middle East when it became a country. Because there was no Jewish country before 1948 Jews were living all over the place and gathered food ideas from wherever they had lived.

In North America (for now) the majority of Jews have Eastern European roots, so our food generally follows those traditions. There are some Moroccan Jews in Winniepg though... unfortunately none of them own restaurants :wink: .

We now have many more Israelies moving to Canada and the US, so some of their foods are sure to follow - more than the falafal and hummus and the things the majority of us already know about.

As for halal meat, at least in LA it's sometimes less expensive. Besides serving halal doesn't seem much of a concern for most NA restaurants.

If it was an issue, would they use kosher meat?

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