The Sponsored Chef

Miami Danny · April 23, 2005

You missed my point. I was responding to your statement that Jose doesn't need the money because he has all these restaurants. My point with the Shaq analogy was that even multi-millionaires always seem to want more money.

On the other hand, what if all of Jose's avocado dishes are wonderful? What if his menu is BETTER with more avocado dishes. What if he was planning on using more avocados anyway, mentioned it to the dude from the Avocado Board, and the dude says, Great! We'll give you free avocados and $10,000? I stand by my statement-money is money-whether it comes in the front door, or the back door.

wmsmurray · April 23, 2005

You missed my point. I was responding to your statement that Jose doesn't need the money because he has all these restaurants. My point with the Shaq analogy was that even multi-millionaires always seem to want more money.
On the other hand, what if all of Jose's avocado dishes are wonderful? What if his menu is BETTER with more avocado dishes. What if he was planning on using more avocados anyway, mentioned it to the dude from the Avocado Board, and the dude says, Great! We'll give you free avocados and $10,000? I stand by my statement-money is money-whether it comes in the front door, or the back door.
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OK. I get your point and I agree with it totally. My only objection is when the chef is told what to do by his sponsors and it results in an inferior product. I don't frequent Jose's places enough to be able to judge if this is having an effect yet so this is all hypothetical on my part.

Busboy · April 23, 2005

You missed my point. I was responding to your statement that Jose doesn't need the money because he has all these restaurants. My point with the Shaq analogy was that even multi-millionaires always seem to want more money.
On the other hand, what if all of Jose's avocado dishes are wonderful? What if his menu is BETTER with more avocado dishes. What if he was planning on using more avocados anyway, mentioned it to the dude from the Avocado Board, and the dude says, Great! We'll give you free avocados and $10,000? I stand by my statement-money is money-whether it comes in the front door, or the back door.
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Money is money, and we like it. Dinner is dinner, though, and we like it, too. If Jose is taking money to change what he serves for dinner, then his focus has shifted from my palate to his sponsors. I applaud his skills as an enterpreneur. As a chef...we apparently don't have the same priorities.

Jose Andres · April 23, 2005

[

"...Jose Andres, of Washington D.C., who since signing up with the California Avocado Commission has increased the number of dishes with avocado in them on his menu to eight from two."

I will write for first time on egullet. More than 2 Years ago the California Avocado Comission asked me to cook on an event in Baltimore. Because I was a speaker during a Conference there in a panel I agree to do it. They pay me $500......for 2 long hours of work with 2 of my best guys, Money I used as always to take my cooks for dinner to a new restaurant or used in a trip to Spain..........I never signed any long term contract with them. Was a one time thing.So when the WSJ was writing this story last week they try to listen what they want it to listen. They asked me if I have more avocado dishes than before and I said probably yes............Yes because I love avocadoes not because I get paid to include them.......I have a Latin American restaurant. I have a Mexican restaurant. Avocadoes belong there. Do you see avocadoes in Jaleo or Zaytinya or in my incoming cookbook?......Anyway I'm in an Spanish Olive oil promotion......If you know me you know that I have two loves...Olive oil and Spain....Jaleo is full of both things so is a natural match for me to be part of a promotion that involves the country I love so much..no?..........And as you imagine Monday I will write the editor of WSJ for such an inacurate piece...........Gracias

Edited April 23, 2005 by Jose Andres (log)

wmsmurray · April 23, 2005

[
"...Jose Andres, of Washington D.C., who since signing up with the California Avocado Commission has increased the number of dishes with avocado in them on his menu to eight from two."
I will write for first time on egullet. More than 2 Years ago the California Avocado Comission asked me to cook on an event in Baltimore. Because I was a speaker during a Conference there in a panel I agree to do it. They pay me $500......for 2 long hours of work with 2 of my best guys, Money I used as always to take my cooks for dinner to a new restaurant or used in a trip to Spain..........I never signed any long term contract with them. Was a one time thing.So when the WSJ was writing this story last week they try to listen what they want it to listen. They asked me if I have more avocado dishes than before and I said probably yes............Yes because I love avocadoes not because I get paid to include them.......I have a Latin American restaurant. I have a Mexican restaurant. Avocadoes belong there. Do you see avocadoes in Jaleo or Zaytinya or in my incoming cookbook?......Anyway I'm in an Spanish Olive oil promotion......If you know me you know that I have two loves...Olive oil and Spain....Jaleo is full of both things so is a natural match for me to be part of a promotion that involves the country I love so much..no?..........And as you imagine Monday I will write the editor of WSJ for such an inacurate piece...........Gracias
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Chef Andres,

Thank you for your response to this. Hearing this from you, it makes perfect sense. Yet another example of media spin changing the meaning of the story. Keep doing what you're doing - I (and my wife) enjoy your restaurants very much.

squids · April 23, 2005

[
"...Jose Andres, of Washington D.C., who since signing up with the California Avocado Commission has increased the number of dishes with avocado in them on his menu to eight from two."
I will write for first time on egullet. More than 2 Years ago the California Avocado Comission asked me to cook on an event in Baltimore. Because I was a speaker during a Conference there in a panel I agree to do it. They pay me $500......for 2 long hours of work with 2 of my best guys, Money I used as always to take my cooks for dinner to a new restaurant or used in a trip to Spain..........I never signed any long term contract with them. Was a one time thing.So when the WSJ was writing this story last week they try to listen what they want it to listen. They asked me if I have more avocado dishes than before and I said probably yes............Yes because I love avocadoes not because I get paid to include them.......I have a Latin American restaurant. I have a Mexican restaurant. Avocadoes belong there. Do you see avocadoes in Jaleo or Zaytinya or in my incoming cookbook?......Anyway I'm in an Spanish Olive oil promotion......If you know me you know that I have two loves...Olive oil and Spain....Jaleo is full of both things so is a natural match for me to be part of a promotion that involves the country I love so much..no?..........And as you imagine Monday I will write the editor of WSJ for such an inacurate piece...........Gracias
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Maybe this thread should be moved into "food media and news" for more exposure, as I find this proves my own opinions of how anything presented by the "media" must be questioned and looked into to read between the lines. There are always at least two sides to every story, and I find many on EG write as if what they've just read or heard is the almighty god's honest truth. The nature of this forum helps to bring balance, as long as those that form opinions from what they've read, see and read all the responses presented. The great thing is that I've witnessed people whose opinions have changed by getting feedback from others in this community. It's very sad, and as we've seen here and before, a silly misleading statement has the potential to really damage a person's reputation and livelihood. It's unfortunate that many people believe every word of what they read, even when coming from a reputable source as the WSJ. Call me what you will, but this is how I feel. And while I've never eaten at one of Chef Andres' restaurants, I fully support his efforts to rectify this misstatement. Too bad the WSJ will at the most have a box on page A13 or somewhere else buried in the paper, listing "corrections." What something like this really needs at the very least is a powerful source such as EG is becoming, to assist in bringing these types of errors and misstatements to light. I'd love to see a column by a national figure on this type of stuff, but know that it may never happen. But, there is always hope...

Busboy · April 23, 2005

[
"...Jose Andres, of Washington D.C., who since signing up with the California Avocado Commission has increased the number of dishes with avocado in them on his menu to eight from two."
I will write for first time on egullet. More than 2 Years ago the California Avocado Comission asked me to cook on an event in Baltimore. Because I was a speaker during a Conference there in a panel I agree to do it. They pay me $500......for 2 long hours of work with 2 of my best guys, Money I used as always to take my cooks for dinner to a new restaurant or used in a trip to Spain..........I never signed any long term contract with them. Was a one time thing.So when the WSJ was writing this story last week they try to listen what they want it to listen. They asked me if I have more avocado dishes than before and I said probably yes............Yes because I love avocadoes not because I get paid to include them.......I have a Latin American restaurant. I have a Mexican restaurant. Avocadoes belong there. Do you see avocadoes in Jaleo or Zaytinya or in my incoming cookbook?......Anyway I'm in an Spanish Olive oil promotion......If you know me you know that I have two loves...Olive oil and Spain....Jaleo is full of both things so is a natural match for me to be part of a promotion that involves the country I love so much..no?..........And as you imagine Monday I will write the editor of WSJ for such an inacurate piece...........Gracias
←

It's tough to wake up on a saturday and, even before you've had your first cup of coffee, find out that you've made an ass of yourself.

My apologies, Chef.

Jose Andres · April 23, 2005

[
"...Jose Andres, of Washington D.C., who since signing up with the California Avocado Commission has increased the number of dishes with avocado in them on his menu to eight from two."
I will write for first time on egullet. More than 2 Years ago the California Avocado Comission asked me to cook on an event in Baltimore. Because I was a speaker during a Conference there in a panel I agree to do it. They pay me $500......for 2 long hours of work with 2 of my best guys, Money I used as always to take my cooks for dinner to a new restaurant or used in a trip to Spain..........I never signed any long term contract with them. Was a one time thing.So when the WSJ was writing this story last week they try to listen what they want it to listen. They asked me if I have more avocado dishes than before and I said probably yes............Yes because I love avocadoes not because I get paid to include them.......I have a Latin American restaurant. I have a Mexican restaurant. Avocadoes belong there. Do you see avocadoes in Jaleo or Zaytinya or in my incoming cookbook?......Anyway I'm in an Spanish Olive oil promotion......If you know me you know that I have two loves...Olive oil and Spain....Jaleo is full of both things so is a natural match for me to be part of a promotion that involves the country I love so much..no?..........And as you imagine Monday I will write the editor of WSJ for such an inacurate piece...........Gracias
←
It's tough to wake up on a saturday and, even before you've had your first cup of coffee, find out that you've made an ass of yourself.
My apologies, Chef.
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Thanks Charles....

bilrus · April 23, 2005

It's tough to wake up on a saturday and, even before you've had your first cup of coffee, find out that you've made an ass of yourself.
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That can't be the first time that's happened to you on a Saturday morning, can it? :wink:

Miami Danny · April 23, 2005

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It's tough to wake up on a saturday and, even before you've had your first cup of coffee, find out that you've made an ass of yourself.
My apologies, Chef.
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I think the discussion of whether or not a chef should alter their menu for a sponsor is a good one-or whether one should feature mostly wines that are subsidized by the distributor. (Like at a wine pairing-type thing where the wines may be heavily discounted by the distributor (gotta move some product!)). The margins can be pretty thin, and sometimes it makes sense to meld a promotion with something that would have made sense anyway. I'm sure in most cases a chef's good taste would override any concerns. But maybe the Raisin Council might get to the chef's partners, who are running the business, and are more focused on the bottom line. How about a RaisinTini to go with the Duck with Raisin Sauce?

However, this was apparently not the case with JA. Thank you for your gracious response, chef.

Busboy · April 23, 2005

It's tough to wake up on a saturday and, even before you've had your first cup of coffee, find out that you've made an ass of yourself.
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That can't be the first time that's happened to you on a Saturday morning, can it?
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Yeah, but before the Internet, the only people who knew were me and, uh, well, uh... "of course I remember your name...just give me a second while I find my socks."

Edited April 23, 2005 by Busboy (log)

Joe H · April 23, 2005

Jose, could DC support a restaurant similar to several in San Sebastian such as Akalare, Arzak or Martin Bersategui? Are there sources for their ingredients? I personally believe that there and Barcelona are where the most exciting developments are coming from. This could be your signature restaurant....

Jose Andres · April 24, 2005

One day a restaurant will be call " Joe Smith Microsoft".................You know.... look at my Minibar....Is a very unique...a very special thing...Everyone around the world is coming to eat( At least important people to me Adria, Keller, Bouley etc) ...only 12 customers per day.......6 to 8 cooks working during all day to make it happen! ...........Has to be paid by someone...Not necesarily by the customer 100%....................

Why I will not let a corporation to be a sponsor?...................The last few centuries we have seen rich monarchs or rich people supporting plays, paintings etc.....Why not cooking?...................

One day very soon.........You will understand what I'm talking about.......

Jose

Jose Andres · April 24, 2005

Jose, could DC support a restaurant similar to several in San Sebastian such as Akalare, Arzak or Martin Bersategui? Are there sources for their ingredients? I personally believe that there and Barcelona are where the most exciting developments are coming from. This could be your signature restaurant....
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Yes YEs and Yes...America has amazing products plus we can get anything we want from Europe.......Yes DC can support a HIGH end restaurant like the one in San Sebastian and Barcelona........Small and unique............And will be coming in a year or two.....My word

chromedome · April 24, 2005

That's what I love about this place. Wanna know what Jose's thinking? Jose tells you. Wanna know what Bourdain's up to? Tony tells you. Problems with Bill Yosses' white chocolate molten cake? Yosses shows up and tells you how he does it.

<sigh> Just a little slice of foodie heaven...

Joe H · April 24, 2005

Jose, could DC support a restaurant similar to several in San Sebastian such as Akalare, Arzak or Martin Bersategui? Are there sources for their ingredients? I personally believe that there and Barcelona are where the most exciting developments are coming from. This could be your signature restaurant....
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Yes YEs and Yes...America has amazing products plus we can get anything we want from Europe.......Yes DC can support a HIGH end restaurant like the one in San Sebastian and Barcelona........Small and unique............And will be coming in a year or two.....My word
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Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jose, that's an incredible statement; can I assume that you've given some thought to what could be a signature restaurant on a national level, perhaps an international level? If this is true this would be a fantastic addition to Washington.

Joe H · April 24, 2005

One day a restaurant will be call " Joe Smith Microsoft".................You know.... look at my Minibar....Is a very unique...a very special thing...Everyone around the world is coming to eat( At least important people to me Adria, Keller, Bouley etc) ...only 12 customers per day.......6 to 8 cooks working during all day to make it happen! ...........Has to be paid by someone...Not necesarily by the customer 100%....................
Why I will not let a corporation to be a sponsor?...................The last few centuries we have seen rich monarchs or rich people supporting plays, paintings etc.....Why not cooking?...................
One day very soon.........You will understand what I'm talking about.......
Jose
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I have absolutely no problem with corporate sponsorship as long as there is no corporate control. For the corporation just having their name associated with a specific restaurant or chef can be a very positive association for them. Same as having a name on a football or baseball stadium or arena. It is also true with having a "patron" for the opera or the arts where major contributions are made by indivduals or groups without any benefit other than helping a performance come to or remain in their city or enabling a Hall to be built or a theatre to be restored. To me it seems foolish not to accept some type of sponsorship if it is offered and there are no strings.

babka · April 25, 2005

[
"...Jose Andres, of Washington D.C., who since signing up with the California Avocado Commission has increased the number of dishes with avocado in them on his menu to eight from two."
I will write for first time on egullet. More than 2 Years ago the California Avocado Comission asked me to cook on an event in Baltimore. Because I was a speaker during a Conference there in a panel I agree to do it. They pay me $500......
Was a one time thing....
And as you imagine Monday I will write the editor of WSJ for such an inacurate piece....
←

wow. speaking as a journalist, I'd be out of my job in a heartbeat if I'd misrepresented that one-time gig to the same extent as the WSJ did. thanks for clarifying, Jose, and please do write that letter.

(also, thanks for lunch last week--I hope you know what a wonderful oasis of sanity Cafe Atlantico presents in the middle of the day. :).

Edited April 25, 2005 by babka (log)

docsconz · April 25, 2005

I just returned from an incredible trip to DC and had an awesome lunch at Jaleo downtown on Wednesday where I had the pleasure of meeting Chef Andres. I would like to welcome you, Chef Andres, to posting on eGullet. Based on my meal at Jaleo and dessert at Zaytinya, the news you mention here is very exciting indeed!

I also agree that I see nothing inherentlywrong with the association with a particular marketing council if it helps defray the bills. If it causes the quality to suffer itwill have been a very bad business decision. If not, then it is not a problem.

A side note about athletic endorsements. The wrong products can indeed adversely effect an athlete's play. If the golf clubs or ball aren't the best, the performance may not be either.

Steve Klc · April 25, 2005

I have absolutely no problem with corporate sponsorship as long as there is no corporate control

To me it seems foolish not to accept some type of sponsorship if it is offered and there are no strings.

Let's take this to the extreme, let's create a hypothetical where there WAS some degree of corporate control and there WERE some strings--let's even use this Jose/avocado promotion--and extrapolate it to a situation where they "backed" Jose in the development of a restaurant or bought an ownership stake of a restaurant. This is the Miami Danny example gone wild: instead of the Raisin Council "getting" to the chef's partners, who are running the business, the Raisin Council IS one of the chef's partners.

Let's say the Avocado folks or the Raisin folks were in on dish development, pricing, promotions, like any other investor or partner would be. The problem with this is, exactly, what?

Why should this, inherently, even matter to you? Does it matter to you who the investors are of any given restaurant? Do you require an ownership disclosure statement in advance of all the restaurants you dine at? Chefs are under all sorts of different financial pressures and have to please different masters and market pressures. What if the California Avocado Growers back a chef like Jose and a restaurant project--and have as much control over how that restaurant functions as any other investor would--as a diner why isn't your first, main and perhaps only responsibility to taste the dishes and react to them?

The food is still the food--the dish is either going to taste good or not, it's either going to be presented creatively or not. And, inherently, it matters not one bit whether the California Avocado Growers had a seat at the investor or partner level or not, unless one is concerned more about perception rather than taste.

From earlier in this thread, MJCB2 recounted an experience in Oyamel:

They even said they're having Avocado Week the week of Cinco de Mayo. My friend tried a special dessert called Avocado Four Ways & had a look of ecstasy on her face, I've never seen her look like that!

Seems to me to be what it's all about.

Miami Danny · April 25, 2005

Steve-I do believe that, 'inherently', all of these things matter to people who post here. Perhaps, we are a picky lot, a finicky lot, even maybe a little bit of a cranky lot (guilty), but, speaking for myself, I DO want to know everything about a restaurant, its chefs, owners, etc. If chef's and restauranteurs are constantly trying to get more publicity for their restaurants, and desire to be held up as having integrity when it comes to their food, its presentation, etc., and they desire to have their product treated and discussed like fine art, then they ought not be surprised when the public holds them up for scrutiny. I'm not judging anyone, just asking for full disclosure.

8Track · April 25, 2005

Too many people automatically assume corporate sponsorship is bad, or dilutes the purity of the product. As though artists must suffer to produce good work. The minute they start making money, they are accused of selling out or compromising the integrity of the product.

I am faced with this in my profession (law) all the time. If our client commissions an independent scientific study that winds up proving a particular point to our client's advantage, the inevitable retort by the opposition is this: "well, you can't believe it because it was sponsored by XYZ Corp."

B.S. I say!

With art, as in cooking, the proof is in the end product. If it is good, it is good.

Now maybe you hate the Avocado Council because they favor the use of underpaid, undocumented farm workers. That would be a different point. But if they want to sponsor Chef Andres to put avocados in everything from cotton candy wrapping to Binaca dispensers, then they are paying him to showcase the ingredient in its best and most inventive possible light. Isn't that a good thing? If the customer hates it, then the sponsorship will fail and the relationship will end.

Edited April 25, 2005 by 8Track (log)

robyn · April 27, 2005

...I'm looking forward to one of those NASCAR-cum-Waffle House-type menus...
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You're on to something here. Did you know that NASCAR fans are probably the most brand loyal fans in the world? If it's on a race car - they buy it - no matter what it is. Just think. If good restaurants had their names plastered all over the cars - we'd probably increase the general level of eating in the US by at least 5 notches :biggrin: . Robyn

Steve Klc · April 28, 2005

Steve-I do believe that, 'inherently', all of these things matter to people who post here. Perhaps, we are a picky lot, a finicky lot, even maybe a little bit of a cranky lot (guilty), but, speaking for myself, I DO want to know everything about a restaurant, its chefs, owners, etc.

I agree Danny, I'm interested in all of those things as well, and I suspect it is because we're curious diners. There's a difference between curiousity, though, and self-entitlement as a diner and I'm afraid if we veer too far down that path, we risk losing sight of what really is the core transaction taking place: the chef serves a dish, we taste the dish, and hopefully, we enjoy it. Before we taste, though, knowing that the pasta is Barilla, the venison Cervena or the avocados Californian, or that the chef is known with sponsorship deals or unknown, isn't crucial; if anything, it's a distraction which might impede our ability to taste what's put before us.

If chef's and restauranteurs are constantly trying to get more publicity for their restaurants, and desire to be held up as having integrity when it comes to their food, its presentation, etc., and they desire to have their product treated and discussed like fine art, then they ought not be surprised when the public holds them up for scrutiny.

The chefs and pastry chefs I know are first, trying to serve tasty food to their customers and second, run a profitable business, paying their employees and suppliers on time. Sponsorships can help many more people than the celebrity chef endorser himself--better quality for the diner at a better price and a little more stability for his employees in what is normally a very unstable way to make a living. Would that the WSJ had thought this through a bit. Beyond that, ascertaining desire, motivation, talent, image, integrity, etc. makes nice dinner table conversation amongst foodies but too often assumes too much that is speculative and confusing rather than clarifying what really should begin with the only essential transaction between diner and chef--does the dish taste good and does it "work" in its context?

I'm not judging anyone, just asking for full disclosure

Agreed. As far as expecting disclosure, though, I think that's a slippery slope. Too bad the WSJ didn't explore this. I've addressed why I feel asking for disclosure in advance on this issue--and not also on myriad other issues and concerns--is misdirected, here, in the national thread on this issue, since you also posted there and it's really more general than local:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=66252

Mottmott · May 1, 2005

Anyone notice the irony of the WSJ admonishing chefs - or anyone else - for selling out to corporate interests? And all the more if their journalism is sloppy and inaccurate. :rolleyes: I'll be more impressed when they write exposes of their corporate advertisers instead of celebrity chefs. Talk about cheap shots.

As for me, as a diner, I've been plotting how to fit Atlantico into a June trip to Maryland before it's too late to make a reservation. If the food in front of me tastes as good and engages me as much as accounts of it have, I don't care even if Jose Andres were paid 5 hundred or 5 hundred thousand to invent interesting and tasty ways to incorporate avocados, mangoes, jicama, or the tools used to slice, dice, freeze, or foam them. And for the time and cost of a meal, I'm happy to naively assume that someone who has obsessively worked 20 or more years to become who he is will not compromise his food.

As a home chef, using a recipe by a chef I can easily judge the success of it whether or not the chef or writer may have been paid by the raisin association or some brand of chocolate to make up new recipes using their product. It's a meal, not defective "O" rings in a rocket. Or a pharmaceutical that may give us heart attacks. Nor do they influence children to nag their impoverished parents into $200 sneakers. Let's keep some perspective.

I am very willing to consider the ethical dimension of people capitalizing their genuine accomplishments, whether in food, sports, medicine, the arts, to sell products. It's an epidemic. Issues of trust are supremely important. But I think that discussion should begin with the ethical implications of media outlets (including film) and individual journalists who do product placement and promote political agendas in the guise of objectivity. It needs to istart with interlocking corporate backscratching agreements, etc., not a chef writing or demonstrating recipes for raisins, avacados, or beef.

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