Herb Gardens

[fifi]

Beware of apple mint. I planted it and it nearly engulfed my 75 pound basset hound. It also doesn't taste all that good.

[snowangel]

RULE: NO MINT. at least in ground, unless one wants a mint yard.

[carswell]

But, for me, I want something more "traditionally" thyme to use in the kitchen.  There are a bazzilion varieties.  What would you plant to use?

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T. vulgaris aka common thyme, though in Quebec it's usually called English thyme. Your standard cooking thyme. Bushy and quite hardy.

[carswell]

RULE:  NO MINT.  at least in ground, unless one wants a mint yard.

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You're right that it can be horribly invasive. However, it can be contained. Plant it in a large, partially buried pot. Or completely surround it by an impenetrable barrier several inches deep and extending one or two inches above soil level. Many garden supply stores carry plastic "edging" strips expressly for this purpose.

[carswell]

Beware of apple mint. I planted it and it nearly engulfed my 75 pound basset hound. It also doesn't taste all that good.

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Don't you find that's true for most "flavoured" herbs. The "doesn't taste all that good" part, I mean. Can apple mint justify its existence? Is there a truly worthwhile use for pinapple sage? Lemon thyme looks and smells great but I have a hard time finding a place for it in the kitchen: the occasional fish dish, maybe, but not much else. Hybridization run amok? Vanity herbs?

[Susan G]

How about for those of us with no gardens but who like fresh herbs in our salads?  What are good plants to grow indoors, or in a window box?

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You can grow anything inside, so it depends upon which herbs *you* would use the most.

I've got chives and garlic shoots, parsley, basil, and wee johnny-jump-ups in my windowbox. The violets get added to salads.

Catnip is in another pot, for another, non-cooking purpose. Have to put it on a high shelf so the beasties don't do unauthorized snacking!

[carswell]

How about for those of us with no gardens but who like fresh herbs in our salads?  What are good plants to grow indoors, or in a window box?

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Check out the recent Growing herbs in an NYC apartment thread, which, name notwithstanding, isn't very NYC-specific. Sun lovers like basil you're pretty much obliged to grow outdoors. Sorrel is another delicious salad herb; it's a perennial, though, and becomes quite the clump after a year or two, so I doubt it would work as a windowsill or window box plant. I often pot sprouting shallots and eat the chive-like shoots. If you can provide sunny but cool conditions, nasturtiums are great; you can even pickle the flower buds.

[highchef]

Rosemary likes drainage, hates wet feet. I have a huge one that came from CANADA! I highly reccommend Richters.com for herbs and books about herbs. You won't have to pay near what I do every year for shipping either. They'll mail a catalog..just log on and order a print one to read prn. The website is a cinch and the plants are amazing when they arrive. I have an oregano that's taking over and the rosemary needs to be cut back. I will replant basil, chives (the cat eats it, guess she likes onion), thyme, and sage. I have a bay tree in a pot that I overwinter when necessary inside. You're a long way from me, but if I can grow Canadian plants I know you can!

I Cannot grow tomatoes though...black nasty thumb there.

[Jean Blanchard]

Definitely plant lemon verbena. The smell alone is worth it. Last year, I made lemon verbena ice cream, liquore, chicken and the list goes on. Rosemary, planted in a container, always survives for me all winter. Basil should be pinched back often and frozen if you can't use what you pinch so you'll have it all winter. You can make pesto and freeze in ice cube trays to use small amounts.

[snowangel]

I've got chives and garlic shoots, parsley, basil, and wee johnny-jump-ups in my windowbox.  The violets get added to salads.

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HOw could I have forgotten johnny jump ups? At our former house, I think I planted a six pack of them about 18 years ago. They popped up everywhere, and are a wonderful filler-inner. And, the flowers look so pretty on a salad.

[scordelia]

Lavender is pretty tough, too, but is less useful in the kitchen.

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Not true! It is essential in the herbs de provence mix that is called for in lots of southern French recipes.

Stuff a chicken with fresh lavender, lemon and garlic, put some herbs, salt, pepper and a drizzle of olive oil on the skin and roast!

[Chris Amirault]

Beware of apple mint. I planted it and it nearly engulfed my 75 pound basset hound. It also doesn't taste all that good.

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Don't you find that's true for most "flavoured" herbs. The "doesn't taste all that good" part, I mean. Can apple mint justify its existence? Is there a truly worthwhile use for pinapple sage? Lemon thyme looks and smells great but I have a hard time finding a place for it in the kitchen: the occasional fish dish, maybe, but not much else. Hybridization run amok? Vanity herbs?

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Now that you mention it, yes, I do think that's true about many of these, especially the "vanity" mints (great name); however, having both peppermint and spearmint is a nice thing, as they have quite different qualities.

I also think that having a variety of basils is a great idea, as they can be very different and play different roles in various cuisines. Maybe you don't want this many varieties, but having sweet, holy, thai, and purple is what we go for each year.

edited to fix an error -- ca

Edited April 21, 2005 by chrisamirault (log)

[carswell]

Spearmint, peppermint, thai basil, holy basil, etc. all have long and glorious histories and essential uses: genoese basil is as out of place in a Thai curry as thai basil would be in a Riviera pesto, and a candy cane made with any mint other than pepper just wouldn't compute. I'm talking about the wave of "flavoured" herbs like chocolate mint, lime basil and tangerine sage. Oregano thyme, anyone?

[BCinBC]

I agree, the apple mint I mentioned above - I couldn't use it fast enough because there was nothing to use it in. We're trying spearmint this year, in an attempt to return to "roots" as it were.

We do have a couple varieties of sage (purple and the one with two-tone green leaves) and oregano ("regular" and Greek). Otherwise we mostly stick to the basics, as they are also the most versatile.

[jess mebane]

How about for those of us with no gardens but who like fresh herbs in our salads?  What are good plants to grow indoors, or in a window box?

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Check out the recent Growing herbs in an NYC apartment thread, which, name notwithstanding, isn't very NYC-specific. Sun lovers like basil you're pretty much obliged to grow outdoors. Sorrel is another delicious salad herb; it's a perennial, though, and becomes quite the clump after a year or two, so I doubt it would work as a windowsill or window box plant. I often pot sprouting shallots and eat the chive-like shoots. If you can provide sunny but cool conditions, nasturtiums are great; you can even pickle the flower buds.

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I agree with all of this. I'm also overbuying as usual this spring, so I have six-packs of herbs I couldn't possibly find room for. Just to limit waste, I sheared off some basil and oregano out of their pots, and stuffed them into glass jars on the window to use immediately in recipes. Two weeks later, both herbs are growing feathery roots in the water, and the basil is trying to get bolty with flowers in its mayo jar. I don't know what this means, but what about going hydro in the window rather than teensy pots that fry up like ants under the magnifying glass at noon?

[k43]

Mint is invasive but wonderful. Just keep it in a separate pot.

I love rosemary. It does well indoors after the summer, too, after being in a windowbox. I just bring the windowbox inside. It's slow-growing, so get a well-started plant. Also, it gets straggly, so I usually get a new plant every year. Ditto for tarragon.

Coriander grows well from the seeds in my spice cabinet.

Thyme goes crazy outside, but always dies when I bring it indoors, even though I keep the box in a north-facing window (all I have). The glass blocks some essential wavelength.

According to the greenmarket sellers, chervil hates being potted. It's always died immediately when I've bought it.

Basil grows too big and I use too much of it to put it in a windowbox. The NYC greenmarkets have it super-fresh.

[eje]

Is there a truly worthwhile use for pinapple sage?

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Only in a fragrance garden. No culinary use for the leaves. They have scent; but, no pineapple flavor.

However, the flowers of Pineapple Sage are tasty, make a nice garnish, and hummingbirds love them.

By the way, if you do plant lavender and want to use it for food, be sure to choose a culinary variety. The two main varieties which are commonly used for cooking are an L. X intermedia hybid named 'Provence' and an L. angustifolia named 'Hidcote'. Many of the other ones are great for potpourris; but, shouldn't be used for food.

Erik

[Marlene]

Yesterday, we planted a few herbs. Here's my little garden so far.

In there, I've got:

2 tomato plants

coriander

thyme

rosemary

chives

sweet basil

flat and curly parsley

oregano

sage

tarragon

I still have lots of room and I'm looking for bay leaves as well.

I tilled the soil and there were a ton of earthworms in there, yay! So I'm hoping my little spot works well.

[Marlene]

I checked out that Richters.com website. I've ordered some bay leaf plants, majoriam and garlic and shallots to go in my little garden.

[HungryChris]

I too think it's great to be able to pick fresh herbs and moved many of them up to a big wooden container on the deck off my humble kitchen. That works out well for me.

I did purchase a little pot of mint many years ago and before long I couldn't go out there without a whip and a chair. It seemed to thrive on any method I tried to get it under control. Then I read that mint hates wood ashes. That turned out to be valuable knowledge. I emptied the wood ashes from my wood stove on the area one winter and it worked like a champ. Mint is now kept in strict 'lock-down' in my yard.

Cheers,

HC

[Smithy]

...

PS: I started some Lupine, delphiniums and columbine too.  They are all perinnials and I will plant those in the ground.  I also started some bell peppers and after May 24 I will plant zuccini and cucumber outside.

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Warning! Danger, danger, Will Robinson!

Lupines are lovely, but if you ever get them established you'll find they're very agressive and invasive. I enjoyed having them in my old flower garden, but when I realized they'd crowded everything else out despite my best efforts at control, I wasn't so sure. (You should see how far the seeds pop!) I don't have them at my new place; I enjoy them along the roadside instead. From time to time I've toyed with the idea of planting lupine, mint and horseradish together, far from my house, and seeing who wins the battle for domination.

The many, very valid comments in this thread about containing mint all seem to be missing a couple of critical pieces of information. The suggestions about placing a barrier around the mint, several inches deep and a couple of inches high, neglect to warn you that some mint spreads by putting out shoots that root where they land. I've never seen that mentioned in a book, either, but I promise you, mine does. Make sure those barriers are higher than a couple of inches. I don't know how high they need to be. Alternatively, check from time to time to watch for shoots. The mint that I've kept in pots has almost invariably become rootbound and died. Last year my English mint overcrowded itself in a 20" pot, and died. My solution has been to plant it around a deck post, where the lawnmower keeps it in check. I hadn't heard about the wood ash before. I'll give that a whirl.

I gave up trying to start plants from seed a couple of years ago. For just a few bucks more, along about June I can go to a local greenhouse and pick up basil, tomatoes, parsley and coriander, all much farther along than my own seed-started stuff. The farmer's market folks here sell good seedlings, too. For the more exotic herbs I go to Papa Geno's Herb Farm. Their web page is informative, they take care to ship when and only when your plants have a prayer of surviving in your area, and their customer service is great. Papa Geno himself told me how to overwinter French sorrel up here a couple of years ago, and my bush is on its 3rd or 4th season.

Marlene, I don't think you've mentioned dill. It's a great grower too, easy to grow, delicious, and you can use the seeds as well as the feathers. Dilled potatoes are a summer favorite for us.

[Marlene]

I havent' mentioned dill because it's an herb I don't use very much so I didn't really think about it. But then again, I've got room, so what could adding a dill plant hurt?

[maggiethecat]

I havent' mentioned dill because it's an herb I don't use very much so I didn't really think about it.  But then again, I've got room, so what could adding a dill plant hurt?

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Fresh dill is so good you might find yourself looking for ways to use it. Extra bonus: it self-seeds like mad -- One plant this year, twenty next year. Unlike mint, it's easy to get rid of excessive dill--just yank.

[anzu]

Don't forget borage! It grows easily and self seeds as well.

Borage is so hardy that it even managed to grow in my former landlady's garden. She had actually managed to kill everything in that garden except for blackberries, nettles, dandelion and borage. She even managed to kill off mint, but the borage still survived, so I figure that's saying something.

Incidentally, the leaves, though a bit hairy, are also edible. It's not just the flowers.

[kiliki]

I'd suggest that novice gardeners get a book that is specific to gardening in their region. Some of the advice/warnings given here about a plant's invasiveness or ability to thrive don't hold true for many places (ie lupines are not invasive at all where I live, and us NW gardeners have the worst time growing dill).