Herb Gardens

[Marlene]

Ok, so I'm the world's worst gardener. My husband will not let me touch his plants because I'm liable to kill them. We have one of those backyards and gardens that are pretty much maitenance free. My thumb is black, not green.

In this new house I have this cute patch out back that would be perfect for herbs and maybe a few tomatoes. I'll do my best not to kill anything and I'll try to learn what's a weed and what's not

So what should I start with?

[SuzySushi]

There's no shame in starting from plants, not from seeds.

I started my own outdoor garden on the lanai (balcony) last year, the first time I had a place to. Of course, the weather is far different in Ontario than Oahu, but I found the most successful plants were:

- rosemary (buy a small plant & repot in a larger pot)

- basil (various types... they're annuals, so when they die off, just start over... cut or break off the top leaves frequently for cooking & don't let it flower or it'll all go to seed)

- thyme (again, cut back frequently or it gets weedy)

Strangely enough, I haven't had any luck with mint, though I'm told it grows like a weed.

I had two crops of cherry tomatoes... the best I've ever tasted! ... and one of mache lettuce. The radishes I planted never plumped up. Never got around to planting the carrots.

Happy growing!

[maggiethecat]

Herb gardens! Now you're talkin.'

I garden in a climate similar to yours, Marlene, and I have spent many years killing our green friends. But I've learned from their untimely deaths.

I have successfully grown basil, thyme, summer savory and dill from seed, but I suggest you go for instant gratification. Hie thee to your local garden center, and I'm sure Oakville has some excellent ones, and browse the herb tables. Here are some winter survivalists for Zones 4-5: Sage. Thyme. Oregano -- a mint relative, so it can be a thug. Surprisingly, and delightfully, tarragon. Chives. Basil hates the cold, so consider it an annual .Rosemary has rarely wintered over for me, and in these climes lavendar is an annual. Period.

Do not plant mint in your garden. If there is one message I can get out here it's the herb warning: Two small plants and fifteen years later I have mint literally encicling my house, even though I spend one full day a year in mint eradication. Confine your mint to a nice terracotta pot!

If you can wait until August for a bushel of basil, by all means plant some seeds, but wait a couple of weeks -- the ground's still too cold.

And I hope your patch is sunny: herbs crave long hours of sunlight. Water your herb buddies well in hot, dry weather. And talk to them -- they thrive on conversation too.

[johnder]

I just started planting a few things in my own garden this year as well. While it is still early to see any major results, my lettuce and tomatoes are both doing really well. One thing that I would suggest that I have had good success with is radishes.

I bought a pack of radish seeds and basically threw a handfull of them into some loose soil and in about 5 days I had some seedlings. I thinned out the plants to keep about 4" spacing and 17 days later I had radishes.

It is a great quick crop, and if you plant new seeds every 10 days, you will have a pretty constant supply of radishes to eat.

We love sitting in the backyard eating them with some good butter and salt and a nice pilsner to wash it down.

[snowangel]

Yes to what Maggie said, especially about mint and oregano.

And, yes to the sun part, especially when it comes to tomatoes. And, don't even think about planting tomatoes for another month or so. They do not do well when the nights are too cool. Tomatoes like full sun and warm days and nights.

Mulch your garden to preserve moisture.

Plants are like babies. Keep them warm, fed/watered and love them.

[DTBarton]

Herbs like good drainage, so try to plant in a sunny, well draining spot. Till the soil and mix in some organic material (compost, bags of composted manure, doesn't take much for an herb garden) and mild fertilizer, I use organic 6-2-0, just stay away from products with big numbers like 20 or 30. If your soil is very thick (lots of clay, say) mix in some sand to help with drainage.

One other hint, we plant herbs on the southwest side of the house (and near the house) protected from the north wind and the rosemary, thyme, oregano, and sage all winter over unless the winter's totally brutal. We are in Central Maryland, though, near DC, so further south.

[scordelia]

There are several perrenial herbs that are attractive that will be hardy in your zone 4:

chives--and they get pretty flowers that are edible too

sage--has nice purple blooms

lavender--get French or English (hardier)

thyme--check varieties, I have a German one that comes back but some do not

tarragon--can be hard to get thru the first winter, but keep trying because once it makes its winter then you will have no trouble

sorrel--very easy, makes great soup

Radishes are really easy to grow from seed and the baby greens make a nice addition to salads.

Carrots are also easy from seed and as they members of the parsley family, the tops are yummy too.

Try nasturtium from seed--best to do in a pot. Lovely leaves and flowers--whole plant can be eaten, nice peppery taste.

[Busboy]

This from a gardener perhaps closer to your skill-level than other posters:

Sage and thyme appear to be unkillable perennials. Their origins as weeds are obvious. I plant them in random spots, fertilize and water indifferently and they keep coming back. They do like sun.

Lemon balm and mint are impossible to kil, as well. They will take over your garden, however, and so are best planted in pots or your neighbor's yard.

Lavender is pretty tough, too, but is less useful in the kitchen.

Basil takes a little attention in the beginning. Frost will kill it, you have to "prune" the baby stalks to get it to branch out and generate more leaves. But, of all the herbs you grow, IMHO, basil is the one where the difference between your own stuff and even the freshest farmer's markets is greatest.

[snowangel]

Yes to chives! I brought my chive plant from our former house. It is 20 years old!

[Marlene]

Our backyard is a southwest exposure well shielded from wind, so I should be good from a sun perspective.

I'll take some pictures and show you my little space as soon as it stops raining here.

What about parsley? No one has mentioned parsley. Is it ungrowable?

P.S. what the heck is Zone 4 and 5?

Edited April 20, 2005 by Marlene (log)

[BCinBC]

On the west coast, in our current home (1 year) our herbs sit in a pretty well sheltered west-facing area and our rosemary, sage, oregano and thyme made it through the winter just fine. But even in our previous place (4 years), a 3rd floor balcony facing north, the rosemary and thyme still survived. Basil was and continues to be a problem – it seems to really need a good dose of sunlight for a large portion of the day, so if at all possible, try to face it more south than southwest (does this make sense?). In comparison, peppers are notorious for sunlight thirst, and we can grow jalapenos no problem and serranos with limited success. Other peppers haven't produced.

About mint: we put in apple mint last year and in grew way faster than I could use it. However, what my wife (the gardener) does is she cuts the bottom off a plastic planter to contain the roots and it totally works to not overrun other herbs. Same treatment for oregano and some others.

Chives and basil seem to attract aphids like nothing else, so you may have to occasionally invest in ladybugs.

We're giving parsley a go this year too.

[Busboy]

Our backyard is a southwest exposure well shielded from wind, so I should be good from a sun perspective.

I'll take some pictures and show you my little space as soon as it stops raining here.

What about parsley?  No one has mentioned parsley.  Is it ungrowable?

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We plant parsley, it seems to do pretty well -- much better than its relatives cilantro or chervil. And it's nice not to always have a bunch of parsley decomposing in the fridge. This is another one where cutting the difference between home-grown and market-bought seems large.

I forgot to mention terragon, which comes back every spring, but seems curiously weak, no matter which variety I plant. Maybe it's the soil.

[jackal10]

Where are you?

Parsley is easily growable. If you are a novice, start from plants.

If you start from seed, start the seed indoors, and transplant. PAsrley takes a long time to germinate, however.

Its a bi-annual, so you will need new plants each year

Hmm... I'd start with (all from plants). All fairly indestructable, and can be planted now, or grown in pots.

Parsley, Sage, Thyme, Rosemary, Chives, Mint (in a pot), Bay.

What then? Well, different flavours of mints, thymes, sages etc. Maybe scented geraniums (not frost hardy); A scented rose, perhaps.

Tomatos need more attention and daily watering. Best use a grow bag and a watering system (I use one called Easi-grow from Bulrush Peat)

[Marlene]

I'm in Ontario Canada. We do have an inground sprinker system and there is one right near my little patch.

[Chris Amirault]

Great thread! Yes to everything people have said. What a bunch of smarties we've got around here!

A few additional thoughts. I really agree that parsley is a great thing to have since you often use it in small amounts. They can get titanic, however; click here for a great salad to make when you're trimming the plant back.

Planting different varieties of certain herbs (thyme, basil, and mint in particular) is also a great idea for a little... um... variety.

Yes to chives!  I brought my chive plant from our former house.  It is 20 years old!

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Susan, do you find that the chives toughen up each season? Ours seem to do that, but I can't tell.

Finally, I grew two wonderful rosemary plants last year, and over the course of a brutal NE winter (third worst on record or something) they died. I deeply envy those on the west coast who plant this and lavender as perennial shrubs. Anyone have ideas on how to do this around RI way?

[Chris Amirault]

P.S.  what the heck is Zone 4 and 5?

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They're planting zones.

[Marlene]

P.S.  what the heck is Zone 4 and 5?

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They're planting zones.

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Good grief. Who knew? Well ok, everyone knew but me.

[azurenath]

How about for those of us with no gardens but who like fresh herbs in our salads? What are good plants to grow indoors, or in a window box?

[Susan G]

What should you start with, Marlene? Prep your soil!! I can't emphasize this enough. Just as in cooking, gardening has it's own important prep steps.

While there are some parts of North America that will cause fenceposts to grow, Ontario is not that place. You have a soil full of clay, and possibly nutrient-deprieved. In the next few weeks, while you have to sit on your hands and wait for the last frost date to pass (say, June 15th?) you can be making your proposed plot a cushy, inviting place for your seedlings and nursery plants.

Is there a farm near you? Get a couple of trashbags of *old* manure (the new stuff will chemically burn the roots of your plants from the urea - manure a year old or more is best). If you don't have access to a farm, garden centers sell prepared manure. I like a brand called "Zoo Doo" - guess what their source is?? Also, grab a handful of your moistened soil........if it's crumbly like small peas, add lots of manure.......if it's compact like cookie dough, lord, get lots of sand. The roots of the plants need fluffy soil to be happiest.......this way, they get to put down deep roots without trying hard, the water in the soil doesn't make them waterlogged, (and prone to rot), and worms can easily slither through - worm casings are fertilizer, and they aerate the soil.

Consider buying a quart-sized jar of worms at a nursery center.

If a wet summer is likely (and I know last summer for you was *really* wet!), consider making furrows and raised beds.......this also helps the drainage and aeration and runoff problems. Some plants thrive with cold, wet summers - think of English gardens. PEAS love cold wet weather. Lavender, rosemary and other Mediterranean-based plants do not. Want some good reading? The 2005 Farmer's Almanac.......it makes weather predictions *and* tells when the traditional planting dates are for various crops, based on Saint's Days. All major bookstores carry this gem.

I'm doing the same thing in prepping this week: my last frost date is May 15th.........I've got 100lbs of manure to add to my xeric soil, and I'm cutting back my lavender and rosemary - because they've taken over. I'd have to roast enough lamb for a city to get rid of it all! Anyone want some fresh rosemary? Send me a PM with your address!

[LindaK]

Yes, prep your soil! Who knew that worms would be your friend, but it's true.

You hit one of my enthusiasms, so sorry in advance if this post is too long.

An herb garden is a great thing—a desire to eat well is what turned me onto gardening in general. Plus they can be really beautiful if you plan well. If I can do it you can too--I can’t keep a houseplant alive more than a year. Northern climates are a challenge, though. I miss my days of gardening in Missouri.

I agree with the advice here—chives, thyme, and sage are perennials that even harsh winters never manage to kill. There are some really interesting scented thymes (I like lemon) and sages (such as purple and variegated) that can add visual interest to your garden. They all flower at some point in the season, you can use the flowers in salads. And though mints are a pest, the variety is astonishing. In addition to standard mint, I love orange, pineapple, and chocolate mints—really. They make great additions to fruit salads and desserts. But as others have noted, put them in a pot unless you have a piece of your yard that you want them to take over. Oregano is another that seems to get through winters. I never bother to start these from seed, the growing season in New England is too short. Buy plants.

Herbs such as parsley you’ll have to plant every year. I have mixed results with tarragon, sometimes it lives through the winter, other years not. Never any luck overwintering rosemary. Friends with sunny windows keep it in a pot and bring it in during the winter, but alas my shady home doesn’t allow it. A benefit of cooler climates is that annual herbs such as chervil and cilantro do well—they like a bit of shade.

Don’t get me started on basils. If you just want some occasional snippings for tomatoes, a few plants will do. Otherwise, a packet of seed will give you enough for plenty of snippings and a few batches of pesto. I also like to grow a few plants of opal (red) basil, great color when you want basil flavor. This summer I’m also going to try some thai basil for my experiments in asian cuisine.

Though they are not herbs, there are other things that are nice additions to an herb garden if you have the space. Edible flowers such as nasturtiums are beautiful and easy to grow from seed. I like to grow small greens such as arugula and sorrel—they grow quickly from seed, don’t take up much space, and are great to throw into an otherwise basic salad.

Finally, one or two hot pepper plants (jalapeno and habanero) have become standards in my little kitchen garden. For summer salsas, I don’t use enough of them to warrant a whole pint at my local farmers market, usually I want just one or two. Not at all an herb but great to have around.

Most of all enjoy getting your hands in the dirt. It's very therapeutic.

[fou de Bassan]

I agree with everyone about the herbs. Specifically, Rosemary and Basil will be annuals in the ground but you can dig them up and pot them for year-round enjoyment.

If you really want mint in the ground, go to the hardware store and buy a terracotta chimney flue. Bury the flue and plant the mint in the hole. Mine hasn't escaped yet!

If you plant Parsley, plant Italian Parsley, curly parsley is very hard to get clean.

I gardened in Montréal for 8 years and recommend 2 things---buy started plants, (don't set yourself up for disappointment) and go buy 'The Reluctant Gardener--A Beginner's Guide to Gardening in Canada' by Dinah Shields and Edwinna von Baeyer. Although the book doesn't cover culinary herbs as a separate topic it does give information in an easy to understand format.

My copy is bound with layers of tape.

Good luck!

[carswell]

Good advice so far.

Going by Enviro Canada's hardiness zone map, Newmarket appears to be in Zone 5a, though the conditions in your garden can be influenced by any number of factors (exposure to wind, nearby bodies of water, etc.). But taking that 5a as a rule, you can forget about growing lavender as anything other than an annual. Also, your rosemary will probably survive the winter only if you take extraordinary measures (covering it with a styrofoam shell and following the example of one gardener of my acquaintance, who sticks a bird bath heater under the shell on the coldest nights); on the other hand, it makes a great pot plant. Chives are incredibly hardy; they're also notorious self-seeders, so deadhead them if you don't want chive plants popping up everywhere (the petals make a nice garnish for vegetable salads and egg dishes). Sorrel's another toughy, though it probably won't really take off until the following year. I've not had any problems overwintering tarragon in 5a/b, though as Chris notes, it eventually loses vigour; since it doesn't seed, you can propagate it from cuttings or just buy a new plant. (Make sure you're getting French tarragon, not the inferior Russian.)

A couple of herbs I'd recco that no one's mentioned so far are savoury and lemon verbena. The former comes in two forms, winter and summer, and is especially tasty with legumes (green beans, wax beans, lentils, etc.). The latter, which you'll have to treat as an annual, is a great flavouring for desserts (egg custards, crème brûlées, etc.), can be wonderful with fish and shellfish and makes a delicious tisane (brew the fresh leaves alone or in combination with mint).

[shelora]

Long dedicated to low maintenance gardening, we have worked out throught the years what grows and what doesn't and we stick with that.

Vegetables come from the local farmers markets and the rest - herbs and beans grow in our garden.

Tomatoes are too dodgy to spend a lot of time on where we live, but damn the herbs just keep on keeping on with very little maintenance and attention. And we like it like that.

We do compost, so that does help the soil. But we are in no ways obsessive about it.

We have a 15 foot bay tree, started from a small starter plant, lots of rosemary, fennel and parsley and kale all year long.

We plant more parsley, thyme and arugula every year and every spring we get a resurrgence of lovage - tons of it - lemon verbena, epazote, sorrel, celery, cardoon, chives, calendula and sage.

We plant runner beans every year, sometimes twice, they do very well. And miracle of miracles, the tarragon is coming back along with the lavender.

Having a garden is not hard I've discovered, just finding what works and a regular watering in the heat of summer is all that's needed.

We have a tiny garden all plants crammed into each other.

My advice - go forth, dig around a bit and have fun. If I can grow herbs, you can.

Edited April 21, 2005 by shelora (log)

[CaliPoutine]

Hey Marlene,

Im near London and I started a bunch of stuff from seeds last week. Basil( already about 2 inches high), oregano, dill, sage, thyme, and mint. They sprout very fast. They are in my sunroom now, I used one of those seed started kits, just add water and drop in the pellets and then when its all ready, just replant. I plant in pots and move outdoors after May 2 4. My parsley, rosemary and chives all wintered over fantastically. I used them all year round. Amazing, since the sunroom isnt heated.

Good Luck.

PS: I started some Lupine, delphiniums and columbine too. They are all perinnials and I will plant those in the ground. I also started some bell peppers and after May 24 I will plant zuccini and cucumber outside.

Seeds are so cheap and you get a lot for your money. Canadian tire often has seeds for 39cents as we get later into the season.

Ok, the seedlings I started about 2 weeks ago., the top is basil. You can see that it really took off. The other photos are my parsley and chives from last year.

Edited April 21, 2005 by CaliPoutine (log)

[snowangel]

Susan, do you find that the chives toughen up each season? Ours seem to do that, but I can't tell.

Finally, I grew two wonderful rosemary plants last year, and over the course of a brutal NE winter (third worst on record or something) they died. I deeply envy those on the west coast who plant this and lavender as perennial shrubs. Anyone have ideas on how to do this around RI way?

←

I have not noticed my chives toughening up, but I moved them just over a year ago. Prior to that, in the Former House, they were planted up against the compost pile!

Rosemary. I have not a clue as to why mine survived. Everyone told me it wouldn't. When I saw little shoots from the roots this spring, I cut all of the "dead wood" away, and it is flourishing. Perhaps this is because I did nothing. No mulch. Bad winter. Very little snow, very cold. This defies what the Books Say, but then again, it looks and smells great.

The disaster was my niece watching me in the garden and figuring that the tarragon which was just coming up was a weed.

Let's talk thyme. What kind should I plant? I want it for a herb, not landscaping. In the Former House, I did a pretty cool thing. I planted lemon thyme under the swings of the swing set. Every time the kids feet would brush the plant, voila! scent. The stuff is great under a swing set.

But, for me, I want something more "traditionally" thyme to use in the kitchen. There are a bazzilion varieties. What would you plant to use?