Gay-friendly dining

[cinghiale]

Yeah, I can say that in the reverse case -- "straight-friendly dining in gay establishments" -- the same holds true, in my experience. I was never made to feel uncomfortable dining with my wife at the recently departed Inn Philadelphia (except for grimaces at my off-key singing). Or drinking at Woody's or that old place just off of South. Or eating and drinking at Sisters. I was always prepared for a bit of attitude, but I never received anything but warm service.

[menton1]

I just had an amusing thought that we can basically have this entire discussion because we are talking about Philadelphia, hip, accepting Northeast city; I wonder how folks living in Middle America would handle such a situation!!

[Busboy]

Yeah, I can say that in the reverse case -- "straight-friendly dining in gay establishments" -- the same holds true, in my experience.  I was never made to feel uncomfortable dining with my wife at the recently departed Inn Philadelphia (except for grimaces at my off-key singing).  Or drinking at Woody's or that old place just off of South.  Or eating and drinking at Sisters.  I was always prepared for a bit of attitude, but I never received anything but warm service.

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I was thrown out of a lesbian bar called Feathers, here in DC, many years ago. In their defense, the (definitely not straight) guy I was with was a little out of control. The women we'd gone there with sold us down the river and snickered smugly as we slouched to the door under the waitress's stern, if loving, eye.

[fchrisgrimm]

As a straight man with a long term SO and no kids, I would much rather eat at a "gay/lesbian friendly" (whatever that means) restaurant than an establishment catering to breeders and their respective broods!

[touaregsand]

This reminds me of a conversation I overheard in a Paris Bistro. I was there with my husband and daughter. Two gay men were talking about how they dream about moving to Los Angeles so that they could be freer. Neither one of them had evern been so the conversation was more like, "I hear we can do what we want, we can be affectionate, we don't have to hide."

I'm from Los Angeles, I suppose I take some social issues for granted untill I read a horrifying story in the papers. Anyway, my husband and I feel that it's actually necessary to have at least one gay server on shift. It's not really an effort to make the place more gay friendly or to attract gay dollars , for us it just adds to the overall vibe of a restaurant. I'm getting a little into stereotypes here, but an outgoing, funny, friendly gay male server puts customers at ease, whether they are gay or not. I suppose that reflects on liberal LA attitudes. I'm also talking about a more "hip" place. The last place my husband worked had an open kitchen and he is a gay magnet. French accent, dark Med complexion, slender but athletic build and a North African ass. He had a steady gay customer base, almost groupies many who would come in everyday to eat and blurt out "I love you!"

[Busboy]

As a straight man with a long term SO and no kids, I would much rather eat at a "gay/lesbian friendly" (whatever that means) restaurant than an establishment catering to breeders and their respective broods!

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Now, now, don't go down that road....

[Andrew Fenton]

Thread-tying:  Ran into the owners of Hamburger Mary's last night at Woody's.  They're none too thrilled at the prospect of Ruby Tuesday's opening right down the block from them.

I still maintain that Philadelphia's big enough now to accommodate them all, but I'd be apprehensive too if I were faced with competition with a national advertising budget.

I wouldn't be too worried either. To tie this together with the "breeder" comments: it seems to me that Ruby Tuesday's is occupying a parallel niche to Hamburger Mary's: not gay-friendly (though I hasten to add that I presume they aren't gay-unfriendly), but kid-friendly. There just aren't that many Center City restaurants that are moderately-priced, have a liquor license, and where kids won't be out of place.

But that, my friends, is a whole 'nother thread.

[MarketStEl]

millennium?

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Yes, I believe that's it. Thanks!!

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AKA "Woody's without the alcohol."

I fall out the door of my apartment building, I'm there.

(And they have free wireless Internet access! [Well, all it costs you is the price of your coffee, tea or food.] It's not a secure connection, though.)

You may find me there occasionally on pleasant days.

[MarketStEl]

Thread-tying:  Ran into the owners of Hamburger Mary's last night at Woody's.  They're none too thrilled at the prospect of Ruby Tuesday's opening right down the block from them.

I still maintain that Philadelphia's big enough now to accommodate them all, but I'd be apprehensive too if I were faced with competition with a national advertising budget.

I wouldn't be too worried either. To tie this together with the "breeder" comments: it seems to me that Ruby Tuesday's is occupying a parallel niche to Hamburger Mary's: not gay-friendly (though I hasten to add that I presume they aren't gay-unfriendly), but kid-friendly. There just aren't that many Center City restaurants that are moderately-priced, have a liquor license, and where kids won't be out of place.

But that, my friends, is a whole 'nother thread.

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You're venturing into another of my favorite subjects: cities and their future.

They'll be hard pressed to have one if they can't hang onto families with children.

And that is all I will say about that subject on this forum, as it's way off-topic. You want my other thoughts on city life, read my blog.

[MikNik]

"I know I wouldn't say to my friends, 'Let's pop over to the Irish Pub for a bite to eat!' on a whim, and--except, perhaps, on New Year's Day--I doubt I'd run into too many Irish Pub habitues chowing down at Bump."

Just to be scrupulously fair to the Irish Pub: every Wednesday, the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus goes there after rehearsal. So at least once a week they get a gang of around 30 of Bump's target audience, and no one seems particularly out of sorts by our presence, and we can be pretty loudly and insistenty "gay." I imagine it may make a difference that we show up in such a huge group, though. (I'm talking about the one at 12th and Walnut--I've never been tot the one up by Rittenhouse, but it looks like a frat party on the weekends from the outside.)

Edited April 20, 2005 by MikNik (log)

[cinghiale]

Man, I can just imagine when you guys get deep into your Guinness and Jameson and break out into "When Irish Eyes are Smiling" or somesuch, it must be pretty awesome!

Welcome to eGullet.

[KatieLoeb]

Welcome MikNik! Delighted to have you and your voice here...

[WHT]

I just had an amusing thought that we can basically have this entire discussion because we are talking about Philadelphia, hip, accepting Northeast city; I wonder how folks living in Middle America would handle such a situation!!

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According to a friend of mine Cincinnati is the Midwest’s equivalent to San Francisco. You may want to see if there are any free papers there that are for that market segment, here in Chicago they have 4.

[Mabelline]

Billings is a University town, with a very large and accepted gay population. There's places like Q (fine dining) 11 (rock food pub) and the Loft are all either owned by and/or patronised by the gay folks here.

You know it doesn't really matter what you are as long as your heart is good.

[MarketStEl]

Just to be scrupulously fair to the Irish Pub: every Wednesday, the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus goes there after rehearsal. So at least once a week they get a gang of around 30 of Bump's target audience, and no one seems particularly out of sorts by our presence, and we can be pretty loudly and insistenty "gay." I imagine it may make a difference that we show up in such a huge group, though. (I'm talking about the one at 12th and Walnut--I've never been tot the one up by Rittenhouse, but it looks like a frat party on the weekends from the outside.)

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Okay, that shoots down that as a candidate. Perhaps the Chorus should try Hooters?

Welcome to eGullet, MikNik. Several of your fellow choristers know me, mainly from the karaoke circuit. Is this a delurk or did you jump in with both feet on this topic?

[MikNik]

Just to be scrupulously fair to the Irish Pub: every Wednesday, the Philadelphia Gay Men's Chorus goes there after rehearsal. So at least once a week they get a gang of around 30 of Bump's target audience, and no one seems particularly out of sorts by our presence, and we can be pretty loudly and insistenty "gay." I imagine it may make a difference that we show up in such a huge group, though. (I'm talking about the one at 12th and Walnut--I've never been tot the one up by Rittenhouse, but it looks like a frat party on the weekends from the outside.)

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Okay, that shoots down that as a candidate. Perhaps the Chorus should try Hooters?

Welcome to eGullet, MikNik. Several of your fellow choristers know me, mainly from the karaoke circuit. Is this a delurk or did you jump in with both feet on this topic?

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I'll be sure to suggest the Hooters outing at the next rehearsal. No doubt it would be very instructive.

[chowfun]

I have never been involved in a restaurant where everyone from the chef to the busboy was not aware of how important it was to make non-breeders feel just as welcome as breeders.

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Your breeders/nonbreeders distinction does not work to differentiate homosexual and heterosexual people. I know many gay and lesbian couples who have kids. I have many heterosexual friends who have no kids and dont intend to. A restaurant that is family friendly would work better for a gay family than a sophisticated adult oriented gay friendly restaurant.

My six year old and I have had very friendly and welcoming service and interaction with patrons at Milleneum.

[jmbrightman]

it seems to me that a restaurant that understands customer service and wants to make money off repeat business and referrals is preferable to all (provided the food is good, of course). gay or straight, the money is green. targeting any particular vertical market means excluding others, something most restaurants can't afford. the best restaurants are people friendly, with no exclusionary vibe. Judy's is a great example of that.

[jmbrightman]

Okay, jmbrightman, this topic's for you, so to speak.

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glad to see so many are enjoying "my" topic.

[Behemoth]

As far as unlikely straight-run places that have become gay friendly, there is the crazy scene after hours at that diner near (I think?) 11th and Chestnut. It gets LOUD in there after 2 am!

I've been living in a conservative midwestern town for nearly two years now. There are gay people, but they definitely operate well below the radar. I really miss the culture. And having good places to go dancing

[hjshorter]

gay or straight, the money is green.  targeting any particular vertical market means excluding others, something most restaurants can't afford.  the best restaurants are people friendly, with no exclusionary vibe.

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Well, yes, it's nice to think that any restaurant would welcome any patron, regardless of sexual preference, as long as their money was the same. The issue then becomes the other patrons, whether they would be as welcoming. There is value in being able to hold hands and kiss without being stared at.

[MarketStEl]

As far as unlikely straight-run places that have become gay friendly, there is the crazy scene after hours at that diner near (I think?) 11th and Chestnut. It gets LOUD in there after 2 am! 

You're thinking of the Midtown II Restaurant, at 11th and Sansom. It has become the successor to the now-demolished Savoy Restaurant at 11th and Locust. The Savoy was the place all the late-night club queens went after the bars closed at 2 am (that is, if they didn't have memberships to what's now Pure) to hang out, dine and dish. When the Savoy closed a little more than two years ago now, the club kids moved up the street to the Midtown II en masse.

FYI, a new 100-unit luxury condo is being built on the site of the old Savoy. It will incorporate most of the former Western Union Telegraph Building next door.

More on late-night diners that turn gay at closing time below.

I've been living in a conservative midwestern town for nearly two years now. There are gay people, but they definitely operate well below the radar. I really miss the culture. And having good places to go dancing

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Girlfriend! (I hope I'm not being presumptuous.)

I grew up in a large Midwestern city, but was never out of the closet (to myself or anyone else) while growing up there. However, the first time I returned to Kansas City after coming out, I made it a point to check out the local gay scene.

My first sojourn contained some surprises (running into a [straight, female] classmate from high school with her parents at a local gay bar, for instance), and a rather pleasant memory of how helpful the crew that hung out at Nichols' Restaurant were when my car's battery died in the parking lot of that same bar. One of the other patrons ferried me to the eatery (for any Midwesterners reading: it's on Southwest Trafficway just south of 39th Street), brought me a bite to eat, and let me hang out with him and his friends while I waited for my mother to arrive.

Despite the friendliness and warmth, though, there were still reminders that, after all, we were still in Kansas--or right next door to it. One was at the city's most popular gay dance club, where I asked the doorman if they had any trouble with harassment from homophobic outsiders. He told me that if people came into the club and started causing trouble, they were warned that if they did not leave, the management would call The Kansas City Star and have their names published in the paper!

[MarketStEl]

I just had an amusing thought that we can basically have this entire discussion because we are talking about Philadelphia, hip, accepting Northeast city; I wonder how folks living in Middle America would handle such a situation!!

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See my post immediately above this one for a couple of examples from Kansas City in the 1980s.

According to a friend of mine Cincinnati is the Midwest’s equivalent to San Francisco. You may want to see if there are any free papers there that are for that market segment, here in Chicago they have 4.

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Cincy? Isn't that where that Mapplethorpe retrospective--organized, by the way, by the Institute for Contemporary Art at Penn, where it debuted with no fanfare or controversy--ran into a buzzsaw of controversy?

I had thought that Chicago was the Midwestern city with the biggest and most visible gay community. Certainly "Boys Town's" rep extends well beyond the North Side.

If we're counting media, there are also four major gay publications that circulate in the Philadelphia area. Of these, only one is based in Philadelphia, though. The second is a glossy monthly published in Wilmington, Del.; the third is a weekly magazine based in Rehoboth Beach and circulated from Philly to Washington, and the fourth is published in Trenton and oriented exclusively to New Jersey. ObFood: The Philly and Rehoboth publications (Philadelphia Gay News and exp, respectively) both review restaurants.

--Sandy, former PGN contributor

[Behemoth]

Girlfriend! (I hope I'm not being presumptuous.)

Depends on what you're presuming

Love the Kansas doorman story.

[MarketStEl]

To more or less confirm the views expressed in this discussion by, among others, Holly Moore:

This year's Equality Forum street fair, "SundayOUT!", was held outside the gayborhood. Since the centerpiece of this year's annual gay/lesbian symposium/excuse to party some more was the 40th anniversary of the landmark Independence Hall demonstration of 1965, the fair was held just around the corner, on Market Street in Old City.

I got there as the fair was winding down and the crowds heading to Penn's Landing for the closing concert featuring Cyndi Lauper, but the restaurants were all doing brisk business with decidedly more mixed crowds than one usually finds at most of these establishments. The sign that IMO best expressed the attitude was one in front of a Market Street dive whose name escapes me now:

"Whether you're queer or you're not, have a beer or take a shot!"

A good number of queers took them up on the invite, joining the non-queer regulars.