calculating cake servings

[JeanneCake]

I keep styro dummies around for people to mix/match and see what their cake might look like, and tonight's clients were incredulous that a 12" square would provide 60 servings - they thought it would only provide 35 at most. I explained that my cakes are three layers of cake/two layers of filling, that a wedding cake serving is smaller than a restaurant dessert portion since it generally follows big meal (but they can cut the 12" in any formation they want, however for pricing purposes, I'd be using 60 as the multiplier.) But they were still trying to figure out why there was such a huge difference in what I was suggesting (and charging for) and what they thought was possible. (They booked with me but I can tell this will be an issue again as the wedding date draws closer.)

It made me curious about what are you all using when you do your calculations about how much cake someone needs or how you base your price per serving on? I've been using Earlene's cake serving chart. There's so much variation out there - RLB claims to be able to get 150 servings from a 12, 9, 6 round configuration - Earlene's chart shows 75-80 and Wilton thinks you could get 102!! (I always encourage people to serve the entire cake so I'm not thinking in terms of the couple keeping the top tier. I have a thing for fresh cake so I give them a voucher for an anniversary cake when they provide a professional 5x7 photo of their cake.)

So how do you calculate the number of servings in a cake?

[Moopheus]

A 12" square cake? Around here that's maybe six servings.

[chefpeon]

Over years of experience trying to explain wedding servings to people (and having the same reaction as you did with your clients), I finally hit upon the notion that a lot of people have a hard time visualizing things. They just can't "see" what you're talking about, so I did this:

My wedding servings are based on a 1 inch by 2 inch cut. My cakes are tall....about 4 inches all iced up....so the serving is 1 inch by 2 inches by 4 inches. I show my clients an actual serving slice on a plate. Then I made a stencil type thing, which is a grid of 1 inch by 2 inch cuts. I place the grid over the top of a cake pan, or wedding dummy or actual cake. Then they can actually see what I'm talking about. It's like showing them a picture......and they get it. It was such a

great idea, I wished I'd thought of it earlier. You will be amazed how much easier this approach

with people makes it for you.

Here's a drawing from my brochure that illustrates what I'm talking about.....

Hope that helps!!

[JeanneCake]

Annie, you're GREAT! Thank you!

My cakes are also 4" tall and I usually try to give them the same size slice as a sample (I make my samples from square cakes when it is slow from a work perspective but swamped by wedding appts, but usually I'm just pulling whatever orphan layers there are from the week's baking and making samples from those). This grid will make things so much easier. Thank you! (PS I'm really getting good with the modeling chocolate, you'd think I'd been using it forever instead of just a month )

[Shalmanese]

Just curious, whats the etiquette with the half sized pieces around the edges? Obviously, with a round cake, you can't cut it into equal sized, square portions. Do you still serve the off-cuts?

[Wendy DeBord]

I've talked about this before, but I'll mention it again since it's true and important. You all gotta realize that the person cutting the cake hasn't got your map/chart and they do their own thing regardless anyway.

In todays economy very few wedding are serving a dessert plus the wedding cake. People are paying for something and should be given it.

In my opinion cake is CHEAP, real cheap (it's only pennies per portion)!! Why not make sure your portions will be generous? It only looks bad for your company when the location struggles getting enough servings out of your cake. They'll go out of their way to NOT reccomend you to future brides.

I draw up my cake rounds on parchement paper and mark out cuts as a person will do in real life. I use my own numbers, it only takes a minute to figure this out for yourself. In the future you'll never have a bride and groom questioning you, in my opinion it's just not worth it. DON'T BE CHEAP, that makes problems. Also every wedding I've seen involved the waitstaff wanting to try a piece of the cake too....I give it to them. It works as a great sales tool and it only makes you look that much better then the next decorator.

Everyone I've seen cut a cake automaticly cuts in circles/rings inward, they don't cut as Annies chart shows. Even if you provide dirrections on how to cut your cake it doesn't get read, certainly not by the right person.........your not going to change them so you need to adjust.

Sorry guys I'm very opinionated on this point!!

[chefpeon]

Sorry guys I'm very opinionated on this point!!

So am I, and I've never experienced the problems that you mention in your above post.

You're right, cake IS cheap, but my labor isn't. I spend a LOT of time doing the cakes I do.

I'm not charging for cake, I'm charging for my labor. In fact, when all is said and done, I end

up putting more of my sweat into each cake I do than I originally estimate. I never think my

clients are getting "ripped off" in any way, and they never have thought so either. I get more business from word of mouth than any other way.

Everyone I've seen cut a cake automaticly cuts in circles/rings inward, they don't cut as Annies chart shows. Even if you provide dirrections on how to cut your cake it doesn't get read, certainly not by the right person.........your not going to change them so you need to adjust.

That's why I take time to educate the bride, the caterer, the waitstaff, and the wedding planners.

Everyone knows me and they know exactly what to do with my cakes. Initially, the education part is quite an effort, but the effort pays off. The more time you spend with people who come in contact with your product the better it makes you look, and they look better too. I use my grid stencil to "educate" the servers, and they "get it" and they do it right for me. It's all about establishing relationships......it's served me well. Sure, you can't educate everyone, and you run into your occasional bonehead, but for the most part everything works out. Spending a little extra time with people in your business really really pays off in warm relationships, more referrals, and great word of mouth.

Just curious, whats the etiquette with the half sized pieces around the edges? Obviously, with a round cake, you can't cut it into equal sized, square portions. Do you still serve the off-cuts?

The off-cuts don't count as servings. I only count all the full cuts as servings. All little extra pieces are bonus....woo hoo!

By the way, if you lay a 1 inch by 2 inch by 4 inch piece of cake on a plate, that's a nice serving size for most people.....I don't believe it's "chintzy" at all.

Not only that, but I've never had a comment that people have run out of cake.....in fact, most comments are that they have plenty left over and are not sure what to do with the rest!

[Wendy DeBord]

I certainly understand that my position isn't a popular one. It's honestly what I've seen over the years. When your in the kitchen watching and hearing what happens it's enlightening. 99 times out of 100 the bride doesn't have a clue about what's going on in the kitchen. It's the chef and managers job not to upset the bride during her wedding and to make everything go smoothly. After the event, who cares, they don't call her and tell her the cake wasn't generous and they had a hard time getting the amount of servings out of it.

Your labor to decorate a 14" round verses a 16" round is still only pennies. Getting your lay-out/pattern and stacking your cakes takes more time then piping one more swag, etc.... I'm certainly not saying anyone here is cheap. I'm refering to cake decorators who's cakes I've come into contact with, here in my area (Chicagoland) at my jobs watching co-workers cut cakes.

[JeanneCake]

I was really just after a reality check on the size of the serving (dimensions) and the amount for that specific size. My experience is that when people are shopping on price, they fail to compare the type of cake they're getting. One of my "competitors" does a two layer cake with one layer of filling; that is definitely cheaper to produce than my standard three layers of cake/two layers filling - regardless of how it is decorated on the outside.

Yesterday's client was reacting to the size of the serving and what they are after is a bigger slice. They are planning a 5-tier cake for 40 people and want the top tiers in styro and the bottom as real cake. When I told them the 12" served 60, they kept looking at the 12" and didn't think that would be enough for the size they want on the plate. I know that this will continue to be an issue for them - and they are going to waffle on whether they want 2 real tiers or 1. I always suggest kitchen cake to clients with big guest counts; it gives them the best of both worlds - the display cake with the design they want, and enough servings for everyone and they can stay on budget.

And I agree about relationship building. For any delivery I do, I make it a point to talk to the function manager about the cake size and number of servings they should get from each tier/flavor/other details (remove gum paste flowers, there are pins or tape on the ribbon border) This gives me an opportunity to become familiar to them and I take advantage of this to demonstrate to them that I am passionate about my product and that makes a positive impression and for first time deliveries, I usually get asked for cards/brochures, etc.. And I always have to explain my policy about the anniversary cake (another thing people always expect and forget to factor that somehow this has to be absorbed into the bottom line!) so they don't try to save that top tier, they can go ahead and serve it.

So, if anyone else has numbers they're willing to share, I'm all ears!

[tannerz]

As a wedding photographer for years, now switching careers to P&B, I have seen my fair share of cake disasters. One thing that has not been covered by all of the templates is the bride/groom cut. A bride and groom, if left on their own to cut their ceremonial piece with take out easily 15 pieces of your grid.

I will also have to agree about educating everyone on your craft. EVERYONE needs to know how to cut your cake. Twice. And with diagrams out here in the Southwest, because on that special day, they have brought in a few helpers that don't speak English, and who you've never met with. They are the ones doing the smaller kitchen tasks.. cleaning, plating, and cutting cake. Cutting 80-200 pieces of cake is not going to be done by Chef, or a supervisor, or the event manager, it will be done by "the help" making far less money, with far lass care for what they are doing, being rushed because "we also have to start cleaning the kitchen and it is midnight by the time we get to the cake, we're gonna be here until 2AM, I hate weddings" (an actual statement I overheard in a VERY upscale kitchen)

Again, this has been my observations as a photographer at $5.00 to $200.00 a plate weddings in the Southwest. YMMV

[chefpeon]

A bride and groom, if left on their own to cut their ceremonial piece with take out easily 15 pieces of your grid.

That is so true. One must make allowances for that. For instance, if a bride says they want to feed 100 people, I always round up the servings, since my cake sizes and serving counts sort of force me to do that anyway.

And what you say about the lower paid help......yep......they ARE the ones doing it, no doubt about that. Not only true in the Southwest.....just as prevalent up here. I would also suggest

that anyone thinking about going into the restaurant biz to take a Spanish course....you're

gonna need it!

Every establishment I do business with (hotels, event halls, etc), goes through my wedding cake course......they love it, since they don't have to train the personnel, and I do it as a courtesy. I feel it's something I must do, because if anyone handling my cakes messes up, I'm the one that hears about it and I'm the one taking responsibility! Again, for the non-english speaking folk, my grid stencil thing comes in handy once again, since I can explain visually what needs to happen.

I certainly understand that my position isn't a popular one. It's honestly what I've seen over the years.

Popular or not, you demonstrate that there's two schools of thought here, and I'll just leave it at that.

I will say that after 15 years of doing wedding cakes almost exclusively, that I'm always looking for better ways to do things. I refuse to believe that there's problems that can't be solved. That's why I came up with my little grid stencil......it really really works for me. I'll probably even tweak that as I see fit. I'm always listening to people and keeping my eyes and ears open to opinions and observations. When I do wedding shows I can overhear people's comments to each other as they are browsing the cake booths.....and boy, that will educate you if nothing else! I've discovered how much people DON'T know about wedding cakes, and I always make sure I take notes to address the misconceptions when I do my consultations. People also really appreciate it when you are upfront with them. You say "this is how it is, these are my serving sizes, this is what I do to assure cake disasters don't happen if you do business with me, here are my references, etc". People like it when show you know your stuff, don't make any apologies, and assure them the only person "sweating out the wedding cake" is you. They can just relax.....if

that's possible. Sometimes I feel like I could do a whole thread about "bride psychology!"

[K8memphis]

Wull, I use the 'cupcake calculator'. I explain that one box mix or cake recipe makes approximately twenty-four cup cakes. Then with the three fillings and icing - 4x2x1-ish is the serving size. That it is not yo momma's 9x13 cut in half & downed with milk for a midnight snack. It's an artistic, expensive, edible engineering feat of daring, delivered and set up with pinpoint accuracy for freshness, flavor and servability.

For that reason, wedding servings are traditionally small. If they have 'cousin Louise's twin teenage girls' cut the cake then the chances of needing to buy more servings is justified. If they want to serve the same size I am selling then they need to get someone who knows what they are doing to cut & serve the cake. If they want to serve a bigger slice then they order more than their head count.

Y'know their eyes get real big and it's like - whooo-oo we gotta get this right. So they know up front exactly what they are purchasing and who's fault it is if they run out of servings. I can't guess how many guests they will have.

I also round up and bake off more servings than ordered - but that's my choice. And I make sure my cakes are user friendly - the icing does not stick to plates, the cake does not crumble. I leave boxes for leftovers. I give a little 5-inch anniversary cake already boxed & ready for the freezer and decorated to coordinate so they can serve the top tier. This is my gift to the couple. My brides always like that a lot.

I had one wedding coordinator who loved my little flat turntable - it made it so much easier for them to cut the cake - they didn't have to circle the table to cut it - she got it everytime I did a cake for her venue.

Wendy, if the bride's cutting corners with an inexperienced baker or server or not ordering enough in the first place then it truly does make everyone look/feel bad including her.

[I82Much]

I have to say, this is an enlightening thread. I never really gave much thought to how much work goes into cutting the cake and making sure there are enough servings for everyone. Hmm

[ChocoChris]

This is a great thread. I was just wondering how you present your diagrams to the caterer or staff who is responsible for cutting it? My guess is that you want to present the information in a clear but simple way. Is it on a sheet of paper? If so, do you give them multiple copies in case one gets misplaced?

Chris

[JeanneCake]

The first time I deliver to a "new" place, I bring several copies of the cutting instructions with me and give one to the function manager when I'm going over the cake details with him/her. For the regular places I go to, they're used to it and I don't have to bring it with me anymore. Of course, after I leave I have no idea what happens, but at least I know upfront that I gave them exactly what they need to cut the cake appropriately (and the bride knows that I go over this as well, because I give them the serving chart/instructions too). If something goes wrong, it is because they didn't follow the instructions.

The only time I ever had a problem was one of the very first cakes I did was for a client who ordered a three tier square for 100. I'm waiting for the site to change the table linens and I'm noticing there are 15 tables of 10 (150 people) and yet the client told me she had 100 guests, not 150. I tell the function manager this, and her jaw drops - she's got to plate 150 servings of cake. But at least she knows this upfront. When I went back with another delivery the next week, the manager tells me she asked the bride's mother about it and the mother blithely told her that "not everyone eats cake and I didn't want to pay for any wasted cake so I didn't order that much!" The manager explained she still had to present a plated dessert to the guests, regardless of whether they ate it or not. The slices were paper thin, evidently, but she got enough to serve.

Had I simply dropped off the cake and not gone over any details, it is very likely that I would have come off badly - as if I'd shorted the customer rather than the other way around. It was a terrific lesson - it made me revise the data sheet I use to collect information from a bride include # of guests and # of servings so I can use that opportunity to find out whether the cake isto be served as a coffee station, plated dessert, part of a larger dessert buffet, etc.

But what frustrates me is knowing that for the same size cake, another vendor will charge for more servings (120 vs 100 for example) and the bride has no way of knowing unless they ask for the specific tier sizes in their cake..... so that's another reason why I asked the question!