tannerz

I am almost exactly 1 year out of an LCB (Pastry) school in Az. I am mid life, and a career changer. I graduated at the top of my class, attended every workshop I could, and volunteered at every event they had. LCB schools are in business. They are there to make money, not turn out world class chefs. This is the same at community colleges. (And by law they cannot turn away anyone that can afford to pay for the classes) SOME of the instructors really do care about you as a student, some do not. This is the same at community colleges. The classes are in depth and will teach you all the basics. This is the same at community colleges. The LCB program, however, went into great detail on some of the more advanced techniques that my friends that went to AI, and other community colleges did not get. Sugar work, Chocolate work, theories etc. My program was a total of 13 months, 5 days a week, 7 hours a day. Workshops every weekend. Not many community colleges are that intense. Friends in my class are now Pastry Chefs at high end restaurants in Scottsdale and Dallas. Some are also bank tellers. Some of my instructors had been at the school for many years, after very extensive careers in Pastry. One had graduated from that very school only 2 years prior. We had 2 M.O.F. instructors, and 2 CdM competitor instructors. I agree with Malawry completely!!! It depends on many factors. After interest I will have paid 60k, yes $60,000.00 USD for my education. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat. Would I recommend others do it? Well, you need to be of extremely high caliber mentally to take 100% advantage of such an education. Dedication is paramount, and forget about having any kind of real job during your school. Also, go work in a few shops for a week or so each. Make sure this is the right place for you. If it is, best of luck. PM me if you want to talk more about my experiences, and stuff from my school.

Ingredients simply cannot be put on the same playing field as methodology. As a professional, my methodology is what people are buying, all things being equal. You can take the same ingredients I use and make the same product, but it will not be the same 100%. It is my method of assembly, and baking that separates me from everyone else, and what makes each bakery different. It is like asking a waiter to use a red pen to take your order, because you think it will make the chef work faster. It is NOT like asking the waiter to not put salt on your food. Methods cannot be interchanged for ingredients in this type of argument.

see.. I think maybe things went too far too fast... I WANT people to know what I put in my products, BECAUSE I do care about Organics. I don't want customers micromanaging when I bake something, but if they have a special request, as long as it is feasible, and time allows, I will more than likely take care of them. If they come in demanding something, then the door also opens out. I am a firm believer that I don't want every customer I can get, and am glad I don't get average Joe in my bakery. I am a huge proponent of slow food, and yes, I would rather pay 12.00 for that cake, and have, and have customers that do too... We only use trans fas in 3 products, and in the next month those will be gone too. All you have to do is ask, if they won't tell you what is in it, walk away. I not only tell you what is in it, I let you look at the actual recipe card.. The problem comes when they do lie a bit and say that it is organic/natural/trans whatever... but you need to have a good relationship with the people you purchase your food from... That is where (the majority of) Americans will fall short. They don't want to know how a pig is slaughtered and prepared, just that it is yummy bacon. Those who choose to know the entire food chain of that 'we're not certified organic, but we're organic" cow, will know why they aren't certified... It takes A LOT of research.. I was not advocating the ignorance, I was being disgusted by it.. maybe that didn't come through clearly enough... now, I have a sailboat to go race.. Have a nice day...

""If she is not a regular customer, buying more than a cookie, and spends less than $50.00 a week then she doesn't need to know that we bake with trans fats because the products taste fresher and cost a lot cheaper than if we used butter, and I don't need her micro-managing my business." Isn't that what you implied?"" ABSO FREAKING LUTELY NOT!!!! I implied that a customer that does not spend X amount of dollars in my bakery does not get special treatment in regards to if I will make a special batch of "day of" brownies. PERIOD!!! Imply nothing more of my post!!! If you WANT to know what is in the food I prepare ASK, and I will tell you. IF you have certain criteria for what you will and won't eat it is UP TO YOU to ask for that info, for which I will gladly tell you. And my original post was in no way, shape or form, directed as a reply to ANY of your posts. It was a reply to the original question. I am not making any assumptions as to what you SPECIFICALLY want to eat. You have a right to assume anything you darn well please to assume. The fact that you are wrong won't change your mind, and I really don't care. And sorry I forgot to add Nutritional to the reasons for eating Natural foods... happy now? I don't think I'll be replying to any of your comments in the future.. Assume all you want.

this is a good place to start... http://www.fda.gov/fdac/special/foodlabel/goodread.html the FDA has a great search engine if you are looking for the actual law..

WAIT ONE DARN MINUTE HERE!!!! ANY product not approved by the FDA isn't used!!! Red dye #5 was just a term used for any food coloring. I didn't make ANY decision for you. If you don't want to eat non-natural ingredients then it falls under the caveat of Ethical/Allergic/Religious I put in the stupid post. And don't IMPLICATE ANYTHING. I won't tell a customer my baking habits, but ALL of my ingredients are open for questions. You are making some broad reaching statements about someone for whom you don't know. NO WHERE in my post did I say I kept ingredient information from anyone that asked I was using it as an example for what typical things people don't WANT to know. (aside from choosing a carcinogen to make the point, fine, substitute Red Dye #5 with Red #2, if that makes me less of a Murderer in your eyes) You really need to calm down a bit before you hit the post button, maybe re-read what you are about to write, and NEVER imply anything about ANYONE you don't know, nor twist their words. and just so you know, 90% of what I make is certified ORGANIC... edit: I used a stronger word for darn, the word describing an abutment holding back water.

How to answer.... First, I need to know more about the customer. Is this a one off? Is she in every day with her 5 kids buying out my case? Does she do large business with me? If she is not a regular customer, buying more than a cookie, and spends less than $50.00 a week then: "We are baking (insert whatever they want fresh here) next Tuesday, they should be ready for purchase by 2:00PM. Otherwise, a batch makes 25 (whatever), and we will need 48 hours notice, and you will need to buy the entire batch" If she is a regular, spending $50.00+ a week: "Hi Margaret, so nice to see you. How are your 5 kids? How was your Daughters wedding? Did everyone like the cake we made? Here, have a cookie while you shop for your pastries. What? Sure, we can fresh bake you some brownies. 8? Yeah, I don't see a problem with that, as long as you give me a day or two notice." My freezer conversation is as follows: "It depends on the demand of any certain product, and the production schedule. None of our items are frozen more than a few days." It only comes out with a customer I have a true relationship with, that understands I provide a superior product for the price, and appreciates what I do. Even then, it takes some serious pressure for me to say the F word. If Americans knew what their food was going through on a daily basis, not just bakery, but EVERYTHING, they would be horrified. They don't want to know. If you are not in the industry, you can't understand that. They want a good product at a good price. Side note: Things I bake off fresh daily: Scones, Croissants, muffins, cookies. NOTHING, N O T H I N G, is prepared from complete scratch day of. Even muffin mixes have components that are made in large batches and assembled day of. Everything else gets made every few days. If you are shopping at a bakery that says they don't freeze anything, and they are offering more than 5-7 items in their case, they are either lying or losing MASS amounts of cash, and will be closed in a few months. Ethical/Religious/Allergic issues aside, if the product is good, don't ask how it is made. Do you really want to know that I have to use a quart of Red Dye #5 to make your Red Velvet cake? I didn't think so...

upon more searching.. here is some better info.. it is a Globe SP8, not a 1.. here is one link.. http://www.restaurantsource.com/prodDetail...01%204%20HP,MX1 if I had the funds I would buy it. We use these at school, during the bread class it gets used for 3 or 4 batches, a few pounds each batch, for 2 or 3 classes each day for 3 weeks straight. Never had them overheat, no torgue issues, and a great design.

I purchased a Pro 600 a few months ago, and my comparisons are against an Electrolux that I owned, and a Global SP1 that I use every day... I would rate the KA second to the Global, just on the value of torque. I do alot of bread, and pastry, and the Global won't slow down one bit, it is however $1100.00. IMO the KA beats the Electrolux hands down if you are used to the standard type of mixer. I had it for a few weeks, and no matter what, couldn't get the consistency I needed from batch to batch. It is quite possible that I was doing something wrong, but it is a mixer, and should be effortless. I too read all of the threads about how the lesser models would overheat, grind gears, and break down. I am completely happy with the KA Pro 600...

thanks to all for the suggestions, and the PM's... The top two from this trip were Dahlia and Tall Grass.. my Feb trip will hopefully be a formal interview at both, as well as Essential, and a few yet to be determined... The stops for this trip included Besalu, Dahlia, Tall Grass, Macrina, Frans, Amore Chocolates (a few doors down from Frans) Essential (corp was closed) and a few catering companies... Thanks again for all the suggestions....

I am heading up this weekend to hunt down a job and see the wife.. I will be going up a few more times before my culinary education is done in March here in Phoenix. Where would you suggest a fresh out of school, dedicated student, with dreams of greatness, and passion to follow through find a great P&B job. Leaning towards breads or dessert type sweets, with an artistic touch... I am building a list for my next visit... Thanks in advance... Bill

Being a volunteer this year, I was not able to take his class, but I did spend alot of time in his room, during prep and after classes. I got his DVD's and watched the first one last night. It is amazing. It does not go into specifics about doughs, but is more a demonstration of how he makes his pieces. I will be watching the second one this morning if I have the time. It was definately worth the 100.00, and even the 155.00. On a side note... I was one of the interpreters for a visually impaired student this year. I interpreted for only 3 classes (Rohiro, Gellato "class", and Wybauw) and took 2 night open classes (Glacier, and Breads[can't find notes right now, Hitz's classroom though]). All of the instructors were "letting it all hang out". Nothing was a secret, if you wanted to know how a technique was done, not only did they describe it, they demo'd it!!! Being new to this industry, and in the middle of school, I was amazed at how nice everyone is. They all had a genuine desire to teach what they do. I will deffinately be a student next year.

As a wedding photographer for years, now switching careers to P&B, I have seen my fair share of cake disasters. One thing that has not been covered by all of the templates is the bride/groom cut. A bride and groom, if left on their own to cut their ceremonial piece with take out easily 15 pieces of your grid. I will also have to agree about educating everyone on your craft. EVERYONE needs to know how to cut your cake. Twice. And with diagrams out here in the Southwest, because on that special day, they have brought in a few helpers that don't speak English, and who you've never met with. They are the ones doing the smaller kitchen tasks.. cleaning, plating, and cutting cake. Cutting 80-200 pieces of cake is not going to be done by Chef, or a supervisor, or the event manager, it will be done by "the help" making far less money, with far lass care for what they are doing, being rushed because "we also have to start cleaning the kitchen and it is midnight by the time we get to the cake, we're gonna be here until 2AM, I hate weddings" (an actual statement I overheard in a VERY upscale kitchen) Again, this has been my observations as a photographer at $5.00 to $200.00 a plate weddings in the Southwest. YMMV