Gumbo: Cook-Off 3

[Chris Amirault]

Every now and then since December 2004, a good number of us have been getting together at the eGullet Recipe Cook-Off. Click here for the Cook-Off index.

For our third Cook-Off, we've chosen gumbo (or gumbo ya-ya), the roux-based cajun stew. Unlike char siu bao, at which I'm still a novice, I've been making gumbo since I first taught myself to cook in college, starting with Paul Prudhomme's recipe in his first book (which I was fortunate to watch the kitchen cook on a trip to K-Paul's in 1986), and working through virtually every recipe I've found.

Gumbo is an astonishingly varied dish, much like cassoulet, about which there are great arguments concerning what must or must not go into the pot: gumbo file powder (ground sassafras), crawfish, andouille sausage, okra, fish, chicken, pork, hocks.... The agreed-upon basics involve a dark roux (flour and oil paste), to which diced onions, bell peppers, and celery are added, to which a hot stock is incrementally added, to which seasonings are added, absolutely including a good batch of ground chili pepper. From there, the sky's the limit.

As it turns out, I made a massive batch of gumbo last night (with sides of collards, corn bread, and rice), most of which is being frozen for the arrival of Bebe, our daughter, due March 27 or thereabouts. I was able to use some wonderful fresh Maine shrimp and excellent monkfish tails, but: in my haste I didn't fry up the okra dipped in cornmeal to sprinkle on the top, the quality of the chicken turned out to be mediocre, and the "andouille" was chicken sausage from Whole Foods (please don't revoke my eGullet membership because of this -- ).

But, like sex, even when homemade gumbo isn't good, it's GOOD, so I'm game for another batch real soon! So get out your digital cameras and stew pots!

[CindyG111]

How exciting!!!! I made my first Gumbo last night and I can't wait to try again.

[fifi]

. . . . .

Gumbo is an astonishingly varied dish, much like cassoulet, about which there are great arguments concerning what must or must not go into the pot: gumbo file powder (ground sassafras), crawfish, andouille sausage, okra, fish, chicken, pork, hocks.... The agreed-upon basics involve a dark roux (flour and oil paste), to which diced onions, bell peppers, and celery are added, to which a hot stock is incrementally added, to which seasonings are added, absolutely including a good batch of ground chili pepper. From there, the sky's the limit.

. . . . .

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I think you nailed the essence of gumbo. But I will start the first "argument." Not all gumbos use what I call a dark roux. Now, my definition of "dark" is about the color of a Hershey milk chocolate bar, getting a bit of a red cast and just within a rat's whisker of burning. I do that for some kinds of bird and sausage. For seafood, I don't usually go that far. I learned to make gumbo in the late 60s at the side of The Gumbo Goddess of La Place (Louisiana) and she made all kinds. She had family scattered all over southern Louisiana (gumbo styles were quite regional back then) and the discussions of gumbo recipes could get quite heated, in a friendly extended family sort of way. The cousin from the more western part of the state a bit north of what is now I-10 actually added tomatoes.

I may not be able to actually cook along on this one but I will be glad to "drop in" from time to time. I have a recipe for chicken and sausage gumbo that I use for my "Gumbo Tutorials" and I will be glad to share here if you wish. It is really a basic recipe where the proportions are a good median starting point and I go into the tricks and techniques to get that really dark roux. Since RecipeGullet isn't up yet (it's coming, it's coming) I can copy it here if you wish.

I can't wait to see what deliciousness pours forth. I can't think of a gumbo I didn't like. (Well, there was that watery stew that I got in West Texas. What was I thinking?)

edit to add: I just noticed that you said to add "hot stock." Mais non, mon cher! If the roux is hot, the stock must be cool, as in room temperature, or you will have a heck of a time. Also, by ground chile pepper, I hope you mean cayenne.

Edited February 6, 2005 by fifi (log)

[CindyG111]

I think you nailed the essence of gumbo. But I will start the first "argument."  Not all gumbos use what I call a dark roux. Now, my definition of "dark" is about the color of a Hershey milk chocolate bar, getting a bit of a red cast and just within a rat's whisker of burning. I do that for some kinds of bird and sausage. For seafood, I don't usually go that far. I learned to make gumbo in the late 60s at the side of The Gumbo Goddess of La Place (Louisiana) and she made all kinds. She had family scattered all over southern Louisiana (gumbo styles were quite regional back then) and the discussions of gumbo recipes could get quite heated, in a friendly extended family sort of way. The cousin from the more western part of the state a bit north of what is now I-10 actually added tomatoes. 

I may not be able to actually cook along on this one but I will be glad to "drop in" from time to time. I have a recipe for chicken and sausage gumbo that I use for my "Gumbo Tutorials" and I will be glad to share here if you wish. It is really a basic recipe where the proportions are a good median starting point and I go into the tricks and techniques to get that really dark roux. Since RecipeGullet isn't up yet (it's coming, it's coming) I can copy it here if you wish.

I can't wait to see what deliciousness pours forth. I can't think of a gumbo I didn't like. (Well, there was that watery stew that I got in West Texas. What was I thinking?)

edit to add: I just noticed that you said to add "hot stock." Mais non, mon cher! If the roux is hot, the stock must be cool, as in room temperature, or you will have a heck of a time. Also, by ground chile pepper, I hope you mean cayenne.

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Ms. Fifi - I would personally love it if you would post your tricks and techniques on roux making. I made my first roux last night for Seafood Gumbo and I didn't think it was dark enough.

CindyG's attempt at Seafood Gumbo

The reciped called for taking a cup of the just boiling Creole sauce, adding 1/2 cup of the roux (actually now that I think of it, the roux was supposed to be cool -oops). Making a paste and slowly adding that to back to the creole sauce.

Boy was that a bitch and a 1/2. For a while there I thought I was going to end up with Seafood Gumbo and Dumplings. Fortunately the voice of my Mom piped in to my head and said put some elbow grease into your whisking!!!

[Chris Amirault]

Fifi makes a slew of good points (and a correction or two):

I think you nailed the essence of gumbo. But I will start the first "argument."  Not all gumbos use what I call a dark roux.

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Yes, of course! There are several kinds of gumbo, and they require different levels of roux darkness. But my sources tell me that the name refers somehow to a dark roux, which is to say, one that isn't pale white.

The cousin from the more western part of the state a bit north of what is now I-10 actually added tomatoes. 

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As do I, usually -- but what the heck do I know? I live in RI and put sugar in my corn bread sometimes!

I have a recipe for chicken and sausage gumbo that I use for my "Gumbo Tutorials" and I will be glad to share here if you wish. It is really a basic recipe where the proportions are a good median starting point and I go into the tricks and techniques to get that really dark roux. Since RecipeGullet isn't up yet (it's coming, it's coming) I can copy it here if you wish.

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Yes! Please do!!

edit to add: I just noticed that you said to add "hot stock." Mais non, mon cher! If the roux is hot, the stock must be cool, as in room temperature, or you will have a heck of a time. Also, by ground chile pepper, I hope you mean cayenne.

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Absolutement on the pepper -- cayenne all the way (though chitople adds a nice base of smoke, I find), plus black and red peppers. Apologies for the misspelling.

But I'm surprised to see that you don't heat the stock to add gradually to the roux. When I have added a room temp stock in the past, there's much more spattering (and roux is cajun napalm; I lost three layers of skin, down to a bone, on my finger once) and the oil tends to separate more. But if you sat at the feet of the Gumbo Goddess, I defer to you! Do tell!

[Della]

This sounds very fun! I have never made Gumbo before and would love to learn.

[fifi]

Cindy, that looks very good. I am sorry you had to work so hard to get there. I am posting the recipe below. Please note that the sequence of events is important and it will save a lot of trouble. For instance, by quenching the roux with the trinity, you cool it down enough so that adding the liquid doesn't make "Cajun napalm." (I love that term. ) Let me repeat: This is a style of gumbo that I use for teaching purposes as it includes many techniques. It is certainly not the only way to do it. It is just what I learned from The Gumbo Goddess and she had worked out the kinks in about 50 years of gumbo making so this is what I do.

Seafood gumbos are a different thing altogether as you simmer the base and add the seafood only at the end so that it doesn't overcook. Also, the roux is not usually this dark, but it can be. And you can add okra or not, tomatoes or not, garlic sometimes sneaks in . . . You see where this can lead!

Chicken and Sausage Gumbo

South of I-10 Style

This is a very basic gumbo that I learned many years ago from a dear lady in LaPlace, Louisiana. She was quite an authority on gumbo and its many styles. She and her far-flung Louisiana family put a lot of energy into “discussion” of one style versus another. This dark and sultry style is a favorite for poultry and sausage of whatever type. We made up the term “South of I-10 Style” because she claims it is more prevalent the further south you go. Turkey is often the bird in question after Thanksgiving. Duck often shows up after a successful hunt. It is not a thick gumbo, due to the very dark roux losing some thickening power in the process, and the vegetables just about disappear. File is often offered at the table for addition to the diner’s liking. The recipe is a good starting point. Endless variations are possible. I have included some techniques that might help achieve that dark roux.

1 c vegetable oil (peanut or canola)

1 c flour (bleached or unbleached white all purpose)

2 c chopped onion

1 c chopped celery

1 c chopped green bell pepper

1 ½ tsp salt

½ tsp cayenne pepper (or more to taste)

6 cups chicken broth (hopefully homemade but Swanson brand will do)

1 lb smoked sausage, not fresh, (kielbasa or andouille) cut crosswise into ½” slices

2 tsp Cajun seasoning (your favorite brand will do)

1 lb chicken meat cut into 1” chunks (best to use thigh meat)

3 bay leaves

Chopped green onion, parsley, and file for serving (optional)

White rice for serving (NOT optional)

About the pot:

Don’t even start this unless you have a proper pot, that means heavy. Heavy cast iron is the classic. Enameled cast iron (like Le Creuset) is better because it is easier to judge the color of the roux. Heavy aluminum like Calphalon also works.

First you chop your Trinity:

Chop the onion, celery and peppers into relatively uniform ¼” chop. Season with the salt and cayenne and set aside… close to the stove. (You will see why in a minute.)

Now you make a roux:

Combine the oil and flour in your pot and stir together until there are no lumps. It should be liquid enough that it flows well as you stir. Add more oil if necessary. Turn the heat to medium high on a wimpy range or maybe medium on a better burner and start stirring. I recommend using a wooden spatula rather than a spoon as that tool does a better job of sweeping the bottom and corners of the pot. Oh, by the way, you can’t stop stirring so you best go pee before you start this. I call this a “2 beer roux.” That means that you can drink 2 beers before it is ready. I find that it takes me about 30 to 40 minutes to get there, but then I have done this a lot. Better to go slow until you gain some experience.

When the roux gets to the color of a Hershey Bar, you are ready to go. WARNING: The reddish Hershey Milk Chocolate Bar color is very close to burning. If black flecks appear, you have burned it and blown it. Start over.

Makin’ Gumbo:

Dump the seasoned Trinity into the roux all at once and stir like crazy. That is why I told you to keep this by the stove. If you are getting close to burning the roux, this drops the temperature and keeps it from burning. There will be a lot of steamin’ and sputterin’ going on but this has a lot to do with the flavor development. The high heat hitting the vegetables and cayenne makes a flavor difference.

Continue to stir and cook for about five minutes until the vegetables are wilted.

Add the sausage and bay leaves; continue stirring and cooking for about five minutes.

Slowly add the broth (it should be cool) stirring continuously to incorporate.

Reduce heat and maintain a slow simmer for two hours, uncovered, stirring occasionally.

In the meantime, season the chicken meat with the Cajun seasoning. Add it to the pot and simmer for another hour, stirring occasionally. (Hint, chicken meat is easier to cut into chunks if it is icy.)

Excess oil may break out. Skim off if you wish.

Check seasoning and add salt if necessary.

Serving:

Stir in chopped green onion and parsley and serve over white rice. File on the table for adding is optional.

NOTE:

You can use commercially available roux. (It is really quite good.) The trick will be to get it up to a high enough temperature to sear the trinity/cayenne mixture without burning it. I think making the roux yourself is more fun. It tests your intestinal fortitude… “How close can I get to burning before I dump in those vegetables?”

You can double this recipe if your pot is big enough. I usually do because this is a bit of trouble and it freezes well. If you freeze leftovers, add the parsley and green onion only to the portions you serve. Parsley and green onion should always be added fresh.

[CindyG111]

Thanks!!!!

Can't wait for the next Gumbo go round.

[snowangel]

I think I'm in for this one.

And, there are a few other threads on Gumbo:

Gumbo

More Gumbo

Yet more Gumbo

And, as I recall, there's at least one thread on Gumbo on the Louisiana forum.

[Dana]

fifi's instructions are very good and very clear but there's only one thing I do a little differently. I make my stock with the chicken and aromatics in my Le C and make the roux in a large skillet. After the chicken has cooked and made a nice stock base, I remove it, and any veg, and turn the LC off. Add the trinity to the roux in the skillet, let cook, then add it to the cooled off stock. Turn LC back on and add seasonings, etc. I then pick the chicken off the bone and add it back to the gumbo at the end when(or if) I add the shrimp. This keeps the chicken from shredding, leaving it in nice pieces. I have been served many a gumbo that was made with a cut up chicken (bone in). and in your bowl you get a piece of chicken in the soup. I find this very difficult to eat, so I always remove the bones.

I can't stress enough that everyone heed fif's advise to make sure you go pee, and make sure you've got your trinity and EVERYTHING you're going to need within arms' reach. One you start, there's no stopping!!!!

[fifi]

Dana, I have done it that way as well, especially if I have a few turkey carcasses to deal with at the same time. Most often, I am using stock out of the freezer so that kind of dictates my logistics. Like I said, there are all kinds of approaches.

Speaking of turkeys . . . I made a killer batch one time using the carcasses from smoked turkeys. You just have to remove most of the dark skin so the stock isn't too smokey.

[torakris]

for the arrival of Bebe, our daughter, due March 27 or thereabouts.

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March 27th is the best day of the whole year for a birthday and trust me, I know!!

I am definitely in for the gumbo making!

[Jason Perlow]

Tonight we made a Gumbo with Chicken and Sausage (Alligator/Pork Sausage, Andouille and Smoked Chaurice, all from Poche's in Louisiana) based on Fifi's recipe.

We used a red bell pepper instead of a green one, but its pretty traditional nonetheless.

I think we might have been able to go a tad darker with the roux, but it was starting to get dangerous. We brought it to the reddish tinge level of chocolatelyness, however. One of these days we might attempt to make one as dark as Upperline's or Commander's.

[Jason Perlow]

We put the rice in there -- which is leftover cooked rice from yesterday's chinese delivery -- because we are portioning it for my lunch(es) for the next few weeks into pint-size microwavable plastic deli containers that are going into the freezer. We also made another soup today, an escarole and bean with pasta.

[fifi]

That makes sense. I do that as well with the leftover rice and when I want ready to eat portions.

Are you saying that you chickened out on the dark roux. Actually that looks really pretty, especially with the red bell pepper. I like to use it when I don't have to give up a body part to get one.

edit to add: I forgot to add. I have an andouille warning. Richard Kilgore was taking a learning run using that recipe and I asked him to critique it. I had to add "smoked not fresh" to the andouille description. I would not have thought to do that because, by definition from all the sites that sell it, andouille is smoked sausage. However, some "high toned" grocery stores are apparantly selling something called andouille that is a fresh sausage. He also wisely advised me to describe the flour for the roux more fully. That was a good catch. I was tutoring a friend over the phone a few years ago and he called me back at the end of the roux making to complain that his roux smelled really bad, not deliciously toasty. It took some digging but he finally fessed up to using EVOO and whole wheat flour to make it more "healthy."

Edited February 6, 2005 by fifi (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Yeah, we chickened out. Rachel was like "It's starting to smell burnt!!!" and I said "No, it isn't, it can take another minute or two" and she just dumped the Trinity in and that was the end of it.

[Jason Perlow]

BTW, with the real Louisiana sausage in it, the only spices we added to it was the little bit of salt and cayenne we added to the Trinity, plus a shot of CAJUN POWER garlic hot sauce. The sausage imparted a lot of spicyness to the gumbo without any added Cajun seasoning.

[Jason Perlow]

I just finished a cup of that gumbo. Oh man. Is good, I garontee.

[Jason Perlow]

BTW we used Corn Oil to cook the roux, we didn't have peanut or canola avaliable. I doubt it made a huge difference, though. The main difference is I think Corn has a higher smoke point than canola.

[fifi]

No problem with corn oil. I should probably modify the recipe to say "neutral oil, not olive oil" or, even better, fresh lard. I have been known to use bacon grease as well. It adds a different note.

[patti]

Here's my chicken and andouille gumbo from a week or two ago. It was very tasty.

(Right before snapping the pic, I dropped the camera, the batteries fell out, and I had to spend 20 minutes putting in fresh batteries and re-doing the date on the camera so it would work. In the meantime, the artfully arranged scoop of rice sort of slid into the bowl of gumbo. Sheesh.)

Edited February 6, 2005 by patti (log)

[Jason Perlow]

That's nice and dark, Patti. I wish we had the stones to bring the roux to that level.

[suzilightning]

i was wondering what to make for dinner tuesday that will carry on through the week. aiiiieee i'm in and will try to sneak some okra into johnnybird's. the only modification i will have to make is with the trinity since i can't use celery in my cooking as it bothers me(like in heart palpatations). andouille, chicken and some tasso...peanut butter roux...some cayenne... a tiny bit of salt after i see how the tasso flavors it. maybe a shrimp gumbo for friday - very light roux....

we spent our first year of married life in ne texas(hooks - near texarkana) and our first and third wedding anniversaries in new orleans. i was in the (former) jax beer brewery that had a good cooking store in it and was chatting to a wonderful man who kinda looked like col. sanders w/out the beard when this woman came up and asked us what "filly" powder was. do you mean file? i asked. that's it. i told her i had seen some over here and had picked up some other ingredients, blah, blah, blah. said goodbye to the sweet gentleman and steered the woman in the direction of the file. one of the floor staff asked me if i knew who i was talking to - no, a really nice guy who knew some stuff about what my husband(safety engineer) did and gave me some great tips about a new cuisine for me - cajun and creole. turns out it was justin wilson. hated the overblown persona he projected on tv - loved the 15 minutes or so we just chatted about somethings he was passionate about.

[patti]

That's nice and dark, Patti. I wish we had the stones to bring the roux to that level.

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Thanks. Believe me, at the last second I was cussing like a sailor. I thought sure I'd burned it all. Whew!

[patti]

Here's what my roux looked like a few minutes before I added the trinity. It's kind of blurry because I took a one handed pic as quickly as I could while still stirring the pot.