Why aren't there many Spanish restaurants

[Suzi Edwards]

Chatting with my brother the other evening he commented "You know about food Suz. Why aren't there many Spanish restaurants in the UK?"

I don't really know the answer.

I know that restaurants openings mimic immigration waves, hence the rise of the Indian restaurant. But I became rather stuck when my brother pointed out that many people came to the UK from the Caribbean, especially to the Midlands, and there aren't many Caribbean restaurants. I tailed off saying that I guessed that people didn't emigrate so much from Spain...

So, what's the real story? Every town outside of London has an Italian restaurant. But they rarely have a Spanish one. Why is this?

[culinary bear]

re: Carribbean restaurants... if Vernon's in Manchester (Rayner passim)is anything to go by, I'm not surprised there aren't many more in the UK.

Spanish, Spanish, Spanish... I've no idea why. I've only eaten in a handful of Spanish places in the UK. Most were horribly hackneyed touristy places, hopelessly inauthentic (one could of course, argue that the vast majority of 'Indian' restaurants are exactly that), with the exception of Igg's in Edinburgh. Iggy Campos does some decent if unspectacular food, which really is infused with honesty and care. No, I'm not making a pitch for a restaurant review post.

Are the restaurant-going public in the UK aware that Spain is close to the forefront of gastronomy? No. That San Sebastian pisses all over most cities in the world, gastronomically speaking? Nope.

What they are aware of is that the paella and beer they had in Costa de los Ingleses Asados was pretty tasty, and that thy can be had at your local La Tasca... "La Tasca Restaurants Ltd - so authentic that you won’t find anything better in Spain." My arse.

Ultimately, I don't think (the massed bovine herds of) people see Spain as a country of much gastronomic distinction. Name a famous Spanish chef, Britons!

I bet far more could name at least one Italian.

[origamicrane]

hmmm... a possible answer in several parts.

Please take what i say like a shot of tequila ie: with a big pinch of salt

well there are a lot of chinese and indian restaurants in the UK due to the fact they were british colonies and there was an immigration wave from those countries also these cuisines are cheap, distinctive and tasty

kebabs and burgers are just cheap eats so are popular on price.

There are quite a lot of thai and japanese restaurants and this i believe is purely due to brits travelling to those countries, coming back and wanting that type of cuisine. So in this case its supply and demand i guess.

There are a lot of italian and french places and to be honest i believe that a lot of modern british/european is just really italian and french in disguise. French food is rightly or wrongly is seen as the king of cuisine and as such has the image and price tag of posh nosh which is an attraction in itself and to be honest french food is pretty tasty.

Italian restaurant in uk are really just pizza and pasta and these have been cultivated by pizza and pasta chains pizza hut, express , strada, zizzi'z etc

Real italian i think is quite rare outside of the big cities.

So my explaination for the lack of spanish restaurants are

1. brits might just not like spanish food as much because spain is influenced by both france and italy but yet its cuisine isn't as distinct as theirs.

2. Spanish food seems to be more informal eating in the form of tapas as such it seen as a less high class dinning experience but not as cheap as other fast foods.

3. Brits going to spain end up in resorts where they serve all uk fast food and the likelihood of them trying REAL Spanish is on the low end of the scale

4. Spain was a facist country during the second world war and if you notice there aren't many German restaurant either Italy was too but they change sides at the end of the war so they were forgiven Yes i know japan was as well but as they were on the other side of the world they not seen as the main villian in europe ie: not as ingrain in the brit psyche.

5. Spanish cuisine just doesn't hit the right spot for brits.

Come to think of it there aren't many portugese, swiss, dutch, russian, african, etc either, guess you could say there is a possible niche in the market place

[FaustianBargain]

I always thought that Tapas was 'Spanish cuisine'. If I miss anything on this side of the pond, its Mexican. Both authentic and Tex-Mex. If the English people can invent their own version of tongue scorching Indian food AND love it, I am sure that they will simply adore Mexican food. Although, the food costs will be ridiculously high considering that most of it will probably have to be imported into the country. High prices are incongruous with the pleasure of dining Mexican.

4. Spain was a facist country during the second world war and if you notice there aren't many German restaurant either  Italy was too but they change sides at the end of the war so they were forgiven Yes i know japan was as well but as they were on the other side of the world they not seen as the main villian in europe ie: not as ingrain in the brit psyche.

LOL!

[culinary bear]

4. Spain was a facist country during the second world war and if you notice there aren't many German restaurant either  Italy was too but they change sides at the end of the war so they were forgiven Yes i know japan was as well but as they were on the other side of the world they not seen as the main villian in europe ie: not as ingrain in the brit psyche.

I know several retired soldiers who served with 14th Army who would disgaree with you. :)

FB - I disagree... I don't think the food costs would be horribly unreasonable. Lupe Pintos imports a fine range of Mexicana of both the original and Tex-prefixed variety, at muy reasonable cost, senor.

Edited January 24, 2005 by culinary bear (log)

[Matthew Grant]

There are so called tapas restaurants everywhere now - even in Croydon! I may be mistaken but I think you might be surprised at how many Spanish restaurants there are, it seems to me that it simply isn't as popular as other cuisines and subsequently we don't pay much attention to the Spanish restaurants.

[origamicrane]

4. Spain was a facist country during the second world war and if you notice there aren't many German restaurant either  Italy was too but they change sides at the end of the war so they were forgiven Yes i know japan was as well but as they were on the other side of the world they not seen as the main villian in europe ie: not as ingrain in the brit psyche.

I know several retired soldiers who served with 14th Army who would disgaree with you. :)

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hehe! i disagree with me too

afterall I am chinese and if the emporer of japan had his way my old grandaddy would have popped his clogs before my dad was born, thus depriving the world of yours truly

but back to the thread

tarka why does your brother care about the lack of spanish restaurants?

afterall you have to admit the quality of most spanish restaurants in uk

(at least the ones i been too) are hardly anything to shout about?

[Andy Lynes]

The 2005 Time Out guide to London lists 34 Spanish restaurants, including Moro and Fino. It also singles out Cambio de Tercio in the Old Brompton Road and Navarro's in Charlotte Street as "deservedly popular."

[chapeaulong]

maybe its because spanish food isnt that great!

[Dirk Wheelan]

maybe its because spanish food isnt that great!

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Maybe you don't have much experience with it, or maybe it's because there aren't any Spanish restaurants in Spain either. The cuisine of Spain is heavily regionalized, and consequently specifically local produce is its defining quality. It is also a cuisine of specialities, diners go to one place for fish, another for pork, and another for lamb. All this adds up to a confusing diversity, and a unique style of eating, neither of which export themselves terribly well, or mesh with the Franglo-Saxon 3 course knife and fork supper expectations to be found in Britain.

[Carlovski]

Could it be a 'Class' thing (Though hate to use the term).

People who go to good restaurants are also more likely to holiday in Italy or France than Spain?

[origamicrane]

Could it be a 'Class' thing (Though hate to use the term).

People who go to good restaurants are also more likely to holiday in Italy or France than Spain?

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hoho!

you're treading on dangerous ground me thinks

[Carlovski]

Could it be a 'Class' thing (Though hate to use the term).

People who go to good restaurants are also more likely to holiday in Italy or France than Spain?

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hoho!

you're treading on dangerous ground me thinks

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Hey, just because it's a stereotype doesn't mean it isn't true!

[Dirk Wheelan]

That would explain why there are now so many Japanese restaurants in the U.K. Thanks.

[origamicrane]

Could it be a 'Class' thing (Though hate to use the term).

People who go to good restaurants are also more likely to holiday in Italy or France than Spain?

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hoho!

you're treading on dangerous ground me thinks

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Hey, just because it's a stereotype doesn't mean it isn't true!

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hehe

never said it wasn't true

just that the truth can be dangerous

[Bux]

4. Spain was a facist country during the second world war and if you notice there aren't many German restaurant either  Italy was too but they change sides at the end of the war so they were forgiven Yes i know japan was as well but as they were on the other side of the world they not seen as the main villian in europe ie: not as ingrain in the brit psyche.

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A bit of history. Spain wasn't really involved in WWII. As a result it wasn't defeated and kept it's fascist government long after the end of the war. It's probably more accurate to say it had a fascist government, than that is was a fascist country. I mean Spain is Spain before and after goverments rise and fall. I suspect the isolation that followed the war is one reason there are fewer Spanish restaurants outside Spain. NY for instance, had a Spanish community (as opposed to a Latin-American community) with restaurants and at least one important food shop, but it's all petered out. The newer upscale Spanish restaurants haven't caught on, but there are signs that's changing. With it's post Franco successful economy and intellectual awakening, Spain is probably the most interesting place to eat in Europe right now. I have no proof that diners from the UK are under represented in the fine Spanish restaurants, but I've had that feeling. On the other hand, chefs from the UK seem to know what's happening and have a shown a keen interest in Spain.

[MobyP]

The 2005 Time Out guide to London lists 34 Spanish restaurants, including Moro and Fino. It also singles out Cambio de Tercio in the Old Brompton Road and Navarro's in Charlotte Street as "deservedly popular."

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Went here (as it is around the corner from me) when we returned from Barcelona, and had a very plain meal. So - deservedly popular amongst whom?

[Andy Lynes]

Among the people that liked it, a group which apparently doesn't include you. Does that necessarily make them wrong?

[MobyP]

No. I apologize to all of them.

Edited January 26, 2005 by MobyP (log)

[Andy Lynes]

They're very relieved. By the way, which restaurant are we actually talking about?

[MobyP]

Cambio de Tercio - it's not that it was bad bad. Just relative to the vast range of Barcelona places, it wasn't good good. In the way that, having been to Italy, you can (in my opinion) go straight to the River Cafe and have a very good meal.

[Suzi Edwards]

tarka why does your brother care about the lack of spanish restaurants?

afterall you have to admit the quality of most spanish restaurants in uk

(at least the ones i been too) are hardly anything to shout about? 

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Well, it's not so much that he cares but we were chatting about it as I was teaching him how to make paella and it came up.

Could it be a 'Class' thing (Though hate to use the term).

People who go to good restaurants are also more likely to holiday in Italy or France than Spain?

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I actually think there might be something to this. If you think about the social demographic of people who travel to Spain vs those who travel to Italy and France you'd probably find a significant difference in the amount of times they eat out in the UK. You'd also find a significant difference in the food they eat while they're away. If you've ever travelled around the tourist areas of Spain, maybe even if your only trip was a pilgrimage to El Bulli, you can't have failed to notice that the restaurants are mainly of the scampi and chips/burgers/full English variety. This is why when you go to El Bulli your main alternative food choice is Rafa's, pretty much the only other restaurant in Roses that doesn't have a badly spelled menu in five languages outside the door.

That would explain why there are now so many Japanese restaurants in the U.K. Thanks.

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Actually, that's a red herring Dirk. There are very, very few Japanese restaurants outside of London, especially compared to say, the number of Italians, Chinese and Indians. So, the second two are there because of immigration patterns, the former, possibly because of holidays.

[Dirk Wheelan]

That would explain why there are now so many Japanese restaurants in the U.K. Thanks.

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Actually, that's a red herring Dirk.

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Erm,... no it's not.

I think I pointed out my perspective at the beginning of the thread, but seeing as I haven't made myself clear I'll restate it.

The cuisines that are successful in the U.K. are the ones that best lend themselves to the British expectations and assumptions of what a meal out should be -- sit down, dining room, waiting-staff, three courses, wine list, coffee etc. Cuisines that aren't like this, have either had to adapt to this model (think of all the posts on, "What is the best wine to drink with Indian/Chinese food?"), or aren't represented. Consider that the traiteur in France or the covered markets in Italy are also representative of the their respective cuisines yet are non existent in the UK. Likewise, is the absence of the street food vendors that are so characteristic of Asia, despite their being a surfeit of restaurants offering those cuisines. In the end, what we have in the UK are 'restaurants' adapted to our expectations. Things like tapas and pintxos; eating standing at the bar; and other defining qualities of Spain's diverse gastronomy just don't mesh with consumer habits here. And often when these things are adapted, as MobyP's post seems to imply, they lose something vital in the process.

[Stigand]

The cuisines that are successful in the U.K. are the ones that best lend themselves to the British expectations and assumptions of what a meal out should be -- sit down, dining room, waiting-staff, three courses, wine list, coffee etc. .... Things like tapas and pintxos; eating standing at the bar; and other defining qualities of Spain's diverse gastronomy just don't mesh with consumer habits here. And often when these things are adapted, as MobyP's post seems to imply, they lose something vital in the process.

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It's interesting to note the meteoric rise of tapas-sized portions in the UK over the last 10 years, not just in Spanish restaurants, but "modern British" places too.

If the three-course mentality impeded the progress of Spanish cuisine in England, is this something that's now changing?

[culinary bear]

Actually, that's a red herring Dirk. There are very, very few Japanese restaurants outside of London, especially compared to say, the number of Italians, Chinese and Indians. So, the second two are there because of immigration patterns, the former, possibly because of holidays.

There are four in Edinburgh alone.