"The Bread Baker's Apprentice" by Reinhart

[Jon Savage]

My pans are non stick.  Should I still use some cornmeal or anything?

I'll give this a go.  Why not?  A couple of months ago, I'd never made bread in life

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I usually just put em in the pans right after shaping them, the little bit of bench flour seems to suffice assuming there is not gobs and gobs of it. FYI depending on your oven these may be done sooner than you think, mine get rotated 180 in the oven after 10 minutes and are done in 18-20 minutes total baking time.

Edited April 13, 2007 by 6ppc (log)

[doughgirl]

I've been too intimidated to try anything but the white bread variations. I made these wonderful rolls from the second variation and they disappeared in minutes!

I also made the same variation in loaf form as well as the first variation in loaf form and they were inhaled as well! Great recipes!

[Marlene]

I love the BBA rolls recipe. I also use the second variation one and they are a huge hit when I make them.

[doughgirl]

I love the BBA rolls recipe.  I also use the second variation one and they are a huge hit when I make them.

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yes, you were my inspiration! I can't thank you enough for pointing that recipe out to me.....it's my new favorite!

[devlin]

I had thought to try the french baguettes from this book tomorrow, but in reading over the recipe, I feel defeated before I even start! This spraying the oven walls with water doesn't sound like a fabulous idea to me.  Can I just heavily mist the bread with water?

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Spraying the oven walls is not a problem and won't hurt the oven. Get a decent spray bottle and turn the little nozzle thingie to "stun," the smallest sort of jet spray you can get, and then just shoot one side of the wall with the spray fast and hard and close the door quickly. Steam a minute or so before you load the bread, and then another time just after.

With my electric oven, I just throw a quarter of a cup of very hot tap water on the floor of the oven rather than using a spray bottle.

Edited April 14, 2007 by devlin (log)

[Marlene]

Ok, well I've got the pate fermentee started, so tomorrow, I shall see how this works out.

[djyee100]

This spraying the oven walls with water doesn't sound like a fabulous idea to me.  Can I just heavily mist the bread with water?

I'm not a fan of spraying the oven walls with water, either. I've done it and always wondered if the spraying was really accomplishing anything in a hot oven. The water evaporates so fast, and there's not much steam. However, Devlin's suggestion about setting your spray bottle to Stun sounds like a good one.

Spraying your bread with water is NOT a good idea, or so I've been told by a professional baker who worked with Reinhart for a long time.

I like the old-fashioned method of pouring a cup of ice water (room temperature water and ice cubes) into a preheated pan on the floor of the oven. I picked up this method from Collective Works, the cookbook by the Cheese Board in Berkeley. There's a gradual release of steam, and my bread is nice and crusty. This is not Reinhart's technique, but it works for me.

[Marlene]

What struck me what the potential for water to get on the oven door glass or the oven light and potentially have them shatter.

[djyee100]

What struck me what the potential for water to get on the oven door glass or the oven light and potentially have them shatter.

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I don't know if spraying could harm any oven glass.

When I use my ice water method I am very careful to avoid dripping water on the glass of the oven door. Sometimes I cover the oven door temporarily with a towel while I pour water into the pan. This is actually important to remember. Thanks for reminding me to mention it.

[Marlene]

Reinhart mentions covering the door with a towel. He also mentions that he learned the hard way when he didn't cover the door. My main oven doesn't have a glass floor, so your method might work pretty well for me.

Edited April 15, 2007 by Marlene (log)

[Marlene]

As I'm beginning to prep my oven to resemble a steam oven, I did a little surfing on the web. Does anyone have any experience with the Steam breadmaker or the Sharp Steam oven?

[Beanie]

As I'm beginning to prep my oven to resemble a steam oven, I did a little surfing on the web.  Does anyone have any experience with the Steam breadmaker  or the Sharp Steam oven?

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I haven't used either, but Rose Berenbaum has given the steam breakmaker a good review. Click here.

I've thought about trying to improvise a setup like the Steam breadmaker by using a baking stone or tiles, a 4" deep hotel pan cover with a couple of holes drilled in, and this portable steam cleaner. I saw this at Target and thought, hmmm, looks familiar, and only $39.99. It gets lousy reviews for steam cleaning, but would be perfect for a short blast of steam. I think. If I get around to trying this, I'll post my results.

[Marlene]

well I've ordered one. This just didn't work for me. Not only could I not get my hand out of the way in time, resulting in a nice steam burn, but I did not get the nicy glossy finish, and my slashes didn't open up the way they should have. I'll try this again when I get the steam master and hopefully will have better results.

[djyee100]

well I've ordered one.  This just didn't work for me.  Not only could I not get my hand out of the way in time, resulting in a nice steam burn, but I did not get the nicy glossy finish, and my slashes didn't open up the way they should have.  I'll try this again when I get the steam master and hopefully will have better results.

Not bad for a first try. When you slash a baguette, try making cuts almost flat to the surface of the loaf (about a 30 degree angle to the surface of the loaf). These will open up more decoratively as you are used to seeing in a baguette.

But you didn't tell us: how did the loaf taste?

[Marlene]

Actually, it doesn't taste that bad! the crust is definitely crispy. I don't give up all that easily, so I'll be trying this again when my steam thingy arrives. In the meantime, I'll just make cinnamon bread from the book tomorrow.

[djyee100]

Not only could I not get my hand out of the way in time, resulting in a nice steam burn

When I use my steaming method (ice water in a preheated pan on the floor of the oven), I pull the pan slightly out of the oven, and toss the cup of water into the pan (more tossing than pouring, actually). If your hand is too much above the water when you pour, then you do risk a steam burn.

[demiglace]

Hey everyone..I just got this book and am looking forward to trying these great recipes..does anyone know if there is much of a difference in non diastatic malt liquid or diastatic? I could only find the non diastatic and I'm wondering if it will work the same. Thanks.

[Marlene]

Not only could I not get my hand out of the way in time, resulting in a nice steam burn

When I use my steaming method (ice water in a preheated pan on the floor of the oven), I pull the pan slightly out of the oven, and toss the cup of water into the pan (more tossing than pouring, actually). If your hand is too much above the water when you pour, then you do risk a steam burn.

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I did that, or I thought I did. Actually, it was a couple of my knuckles that got the brunt of the steam. I was more worried about spilling on th oven glass door I guess, although I did cover it with a towel.

[glennbech]

... With my electric oven, I just throw a quarter of a cup of very hot tap water on the floor of the oven rather than using a spray bottle.

Just a comment on this; I think you'll actually get more steam using ice cold water. The temp. wil fall a bit more in the oven that way I guess.

Another thing; I've been doing the same in my electric oven, throwing directly at the bottom. Yesterday, however, I discovered that the floor of my oven is now out of shape. I think it has something to do with heating the metal up to almost 500F, and then throwing water at it. Did anyone else experience this?

Edited April 16, 2007 by glennbech (log)

[mhjoseph]

I find that King Arthur Sir Lancelot High Gluten flour is terrific for bagels, the only problem is that I have to mail order it.

Speaking of bagels though, I can't get the seeds and onions to stick. I coat with them when the bagels are still wet from boiling. I've never seen a bagel recipe calling for using eggs which the only sure thing I can think of to make them stick.

More misserable bagel atempts here... They collapse during the boiling process! Im blaming the flour this time.

I also think I need an update on flour terminology. How can a "bread flour" for "pizzas and bread" only have a 10,7% protein content? This is what I got from my best stocked grocery store. Typo "0" flour I think.

I've also bough dried gluten powder. Can I apply some of this with luck??

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You're using an Italian flour with fairly low protein content that is used to make Napoletana-style pizza. You should definitely look into a higher protein content flour.. King Arthur's bread flour is 12.7% protein.

I don't know if that's the only thing that will fix your bagels though. I first made the BBA bagels using KA All-Purpose flour (11.7%) and they deflated during boiling. Same thing happened when I used the KA bread flour. Another poster in another thread with bagel problems thinks it might be overproofing, but I don't know. Or maybe we're not making the dough stiff enough.

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[devlin]

... With my electric oven, I just throw a quarter of a cup of very hot tap water on the floor of the oven rather than using a spray bottle.

Just a comment on this; I think you'll actually get more steam using ice cold water. The temp. wil fall a bit more in the oven that way I guess.

Another thing; I've been doing the same in my electric oven, throwing directly at the bottom. Yesterday, however, I discovered that the floor of my oven is now out of shape. I think it has something to do with heating the metal up to almost 500F, and then throwing water at it. Did anyone else experience this?

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I'm not sure the steam from ice water is significant enough to offset the drop in oven temp (at least I've always rationalized it that way for myself).

And I suppose I should warn folks that the floor of their oven might bend a bit with the practice of throwing water on it. Keeping a sheet pan on the floor of the oven might be a better practice. If my oven were better or more expensive, I'd probably make a point of that. As it is, I may just be subconsciously hoping for a reason to persuade my husband we need a new one.

[Jon Savage]

And I suppose I should warn folks that the floor of their oven might bend a bit with the practice of throwing water on it.  Keeping a sheet pan on the floor of the oven might be a better practice. If my oven were better or more expensive, I'd probably make a point of that. As it is, I may just be subconsciously hoping for a reason to persuade my husband we need a new one. 

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I also subscribe "just throw some water directly on the floor of the oven" school of thought. I use hot water. If I cared about the oven I'd use a sheet pan or giant cast iron skillet on the bottom rack.

[djyee100]

I also subscribe  "just throw some water directly on the floor of the oven" school of thought. I use hot water. If I cared about the oven I'd use a sheet pan or giant cast iron skillet on the bottom rack.

I use an old broiler pan, the heavy enameled kind, and I preheat it before adding ice water to it. This pan can take rough treatment.

[Marlene]

I used a cast iron pan. My ovens are pretty expensive, and new. I've got the Cinnamon Raisin bread sans walnuts cooling on racks at the moment. I did the cinnamon swirl as well and I coated the top in butter and cinnamon sugar.

[Marlene]

Here's the Cinnamon bread. I need to work on even shaping, but this one was really really good: