Dining in the 19th

[Freckles]

Bonjour, Tous. Another question for you...

I'm organizing a dinner in Paris on the 22nd of September. My friends and I want to go somewhere in the 19th (Why, you ask? I started a "girls'" dinner group and once a month we go to a restaurant in a different Arr. to force us out of our usual dining comfort zones; the 6th, the 3rd, etc. It's been a terrific experience and it's made us look for -- and find! -- interesting restaurants in neighbourhoods which we might never have otherwise explored)

Anyway, I am trying to find somewhere that we might enjoy in the 19th. I had read one review a while back that suggested Marc Singer's place could be good but Egulleters quickly disabused me of that notion. It doesn't have to be fancy: even a good but inexpensive ethnic restaurant would work well for us. Surely, the entire 19th cannot be a culinary wasteland! If you have any thoughts, please share.

Thank you!

[John Whiting]

An old brasserie, well-spoken of and unchanged since 1930, is Au Boeuf Couronné, 188 av Jean-Jaurés, 01 42 39 54 54. Their specialty is steak, but their salmon is said to be excellent. Veritable vegetarians would be less than happy.

Edited August 31, 2004 by John Whiting (log)

[Carlsbad]

I ventured out to the 19th for Frechon, but never since. If the 20th would work, there is a place that has been on my lists forever, although I've never made it there. Does anyone have a first- hand report on Les Allobroges?

[Freckles]

Sorry... I can`t do the 20th for this dinner. Has to be the 19th. In our dinner group, we really do try to push ourselves to explore areas of Paris which mightn`t always be top of our lists at other times. But, anywhere in the 19th will work...

[Bux]

Michelin only lists six restaurants in the 19ième and that includes the Holiday Inn and Kyriad hotels. At least that's all I could find searching the Michelin web site. I don't have the current hard cover edition.

[John Talbott]

An old brasserie, well-spoken of and unchanged since 1930, is Au Boeuf Couronné, 188 av Jean-Jaurés, 01 42 39 54 54. Their specialty is steak, but their salmon is said to be excellent. Veritable vegetarians would be less than happy.

I hesitate to disagree with John, but my one (and only) meal there was not a total success, although we went for pommes soufflees. Anyway given Freckles experience with the treatment of all-women's groups that may not be the ideal place. A wonderful setting on a good day is the Pavillion Puebla; the food is not outstanding tho'. (Bux - my hard and soft cover Michelin's show only 4).

[John Whiting]

An old brasserie, well-spoken of and unchanged since 1930, is Au Boeuf Couronné, 188 av Jean-Jaurés, 01 42 39 54 54. Their specialty is steak, but their salmon is said to be excellent. Veritable vegetarians would be less than happy.

I hesitate to disagree with John, but my one (and only) meal there was not a total success . . .

Sorry to hear that. I haven't eaten there but was going on what seemed to be a concensus of reputation. I note that it's now part of a chain.

[Bux]

(Bux - my hard and soft cover Michelin's show only 4).

Does that include Holiday Inn and Kyriad whose restaurants are likey to be listed under the hotel? Which is not to say I'd offer either of those as a suggestion. Is Pavillion Puebla in the current guide? It was listed a few years ago.

Are there so few restaurants because of the quality or just because the area is beyond the perimeter of streets normally trod by anyone but residents. I suspect it's a combination, but Michelin is a tourist guide as much as anything else and once one leaves the absolute destination restaurants, it's bound to focus on restaurants in destinations. Then again restaurants are more likely to open for business where there's traffic. The cliche about the three most important factors in a restaurant's chances of success are location, location and location.

One might expect a restaurant dependent on local traffic to have at least decent food and service if it survives for a few years, but perhaps it only has to be better than the nearest competition.

[John Whiting]

The 19th is not exactly a foodie mecca. La Cité des Sciences et de l'Industrie made thoughtful provision for a gourmet restaurant conveniently near its metro stop, of an architectural elegance appropriate to its location. As this photo reveals, it was not a roaring success.

[Le Zouave]

Freckles-

Maybe you could try l'Hermès, located at 23 rue Mélingue, not far amay from Belleville. it's a cosy neighbourhood restaurant, not bad at all, not expensive at all, with some fine wines. the staff is friendly, and I'm sure it'd be great for a casual dinner with some friends.

Otherwise, if your're looking for somthinh ethnic, you've got the Lao Siam at 49 rue de Belleville (I love the place, even if it's always overcrowded) or the Pacifique, at 35 rue de belleville (a classic chinese place, with some nice soups and dim sums).

Last time I was at l'Hermes, I had a nice cassoulet -- that was last winter, it was cold outside and really hot inside (my mouth, of course).

[John Talbott]

Is Pavillion Puebla in the current guide?

No, it's in the Pudler and Lebey though.

Zouve's suggestions: l'Hermès and Lao Siam are in GaultMillau too, 12 and 14 respectively, if you trust them after their crash.

As for your ponderance (is that a word?) about the 19th, it's a mystery to me. I thought Frechon was a genius to go there but it is barren as John Whiting notes and with the Butte there, even denuded of trees, and the little hameaus, it's nice walking.

[Bux]

thoughtful provision for a gourmet restaurant

Restaurants probably shoot themselves in the foot by declaring themselves to be a gourmet place. Those who don't want to pay for gourmet food will most likely stay away and those who want to eat gourmet food will definitely stay away. In fact we all know that "gourmet" over the door is an indication of mediocre food in fancy packaging at elevated prices. If that was a NY photo, it would have every indication of a mediocre deli or fast food spot.

On a broad boulevard beyond the parc de la Villette I seem to recall seeing many cafes and brasseries in a row and wondering what the food was like here on the edge of Paris. If nothing else, the places all looked old and ordinary in the way of black and white vintage photographs of Paris between the wars and just after the last world war. "How bad could the food be?" he says in all innocence remembering that time when photographs were black and white and it was hard to find a bad meal in Paris. Come to think of it, I might be thinking of some other corner of Paris anyway.

[illkirchen]

Hello Freckles and other readers!

One restaurant that seems to be highly thought of (Pudlo, etc.) is La Chaumiere, at 46 avenue Secrétan, where the the chef is Japanese (Ishii Yochinori), yet works "in French". An example of the menu can be found here, along with pictures:

La Chaumiere

There appear to be menus at 22 and 29 euros, but outside that format, prices escalate to 60 euros. Has anyone here ever tried it?

If it is convenient to your location and timing, you might also schedule a little pre-restaurant walk around the upper portion of rue de Belleville (beyond the Asian area) and rue des Pyrénées (although it will take you into the 20th), in order to "hit" places like: Ma Cave (105, rue de Belleville), a "true" wine shop where the owner knows every product in his store and is ready to give personalized advice; or La Flûte Gana (226, rue des Pyrénées) and Au 140 (140, rue de Belleville) great boulangerie-pâtisseries (for your breakfast the next morning, of course!).

When you have time, could you write up a list of the "off the beaten edge" places to which your dining club has introduced you?

Illkirchen (another food-loving "girl" based in Paris)

[Felice]

I checked my Nova Fooding Guide 2004 (a magazine-type guide which comes out once a year) and they don't have too much for the 19th. In the "Trop Bon" category, which are usually my favorites, there's nothing

But they do list La Cave Gourmand in the bistro category and they gave it a positive review. The also mention that it's been somewhat inconsistent since Frechon left but that now it's back on track with American chef Marc Singer (la régularité n' a jamais été le fort de cette maison jusqu' à aujourd'hui) , so perhaps all of the bad reviews were during this time. Apparently Frechon's wife was running things for a bit. Nova always has a little blurb in English at the end of each entry and they say " joyous bistro cooking, non-descript décor).

They also list L'Hermes, which was mentioned above and say "Award-winning chef, impeccable and personable service".

[John Talbott]

Mme Frechon and one wait-person only stayed under a year, during which time it was OK; but I've been since the whole place turned over and was not impressed. On the other hand, Id love someone else to test it out today.

[John Whiting]

But they do list La Cave Gourmand in the bistro category and they gave it a positive review.  The also mention that it's been somewhat inconsistent since Frechon left but that now it's back on track with American chef Marc Singer (la régularité n' a jamais été le fort de cette maison jusqu' à aujourd'hui) , so perhaps all of the bad reviews were during this time. 

It was with Marc Singer as chef and his wife front-of-house that I had my terrible experience. One member of my party happened to be a prominent Chicago restaurant critic, so they didn't do themselves any favors.

[Freckles]

Thanks. I'm now actually quite curious to go and check it out. My Pudlo 2004 gives it great reviews...

[Freckles]

A friend says that in the Paris Pas Cher there is listed as a good place to eat a cooking school in the 19th. Do any of you know about this?

[Le Zouave]

freckles, I've never been there, but that that must be l'Ecole Supérieure des charcutiers traiteurs, rue Goubet, 01 42 39 19 64.

[John Talbott]

freckles, I've never been there, but that that must be l'Ecole Supérieure des charcutiers traiteurs, rue Goubet, 01 42 39 19 64.

←

As usual, Zouave is correct. In looking up the building (which I remember as more romantic looking, albeit way out there to hell and gone) I came across this cool website that has pictures not only of most of the restaurants of the 19th that we've been chattering on about above but the School. So Freckles, you've got your work cut out for you hitting them all.

[Freckles]

Thank you all so much. After reading so many interesting discussions about Marc Singer's restaurant, I made the reservation there. A group of 6 women -- between the ages of 28 and 40 years old -- will be dining there this Wednesday night. I will get back to you with comments on the experience!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

With all of this good input, I look forward to your report, Freckles.

When your group visits the 20th, do consider Chez Raymonde. As I remember, there are several rooms or alcoves that would seat a group nicely.

Edited to add that you shouldn't be put off by my choice of Andouillette. There were many other choices such as carre d'agneau, faux-filet, entrecote, boudin, sole meuniere as well as the house profiteroles for tamer diners.

Edited September 21, 2004 by Margaret Pilgrim (log)

[Le Zouave]

Raymonde is no longer there... She just retired, and sold the place to a couple of guys. By chance, they havn't changed anything at all. The food is still OK, classic, and the wine list has really been improved: a lot of great stuff, not expensive at all (a bourgogne grand ordinaire at 10 or 11 euros, I havn't seen that in any parisian restaurant).

[John Talbott]

Freckles - I know you've already gone, but for the record another place was reviewed in Figaroscope this morning, p 10 - Chapeau Melon; 2 hearts; I'll cover coordinates, etc in the Digest of this week but if you don't have it already you may want to buy.

[Le Zouave]

Chapeau Melon is actually a caviste, a wine shop, with two or three tables in the back. It's not bad at all (I once had some fine corsican coppa, and a lovely gaspacho), and the wines are amazing -- as long as you're into the new "unsulphered" trip.