Riedel glasses & their effect on the taste of wine

[formerly grueldelux]

Moderator's note: The original title of this thread was: Big study shows riedel glasses ruin taste of wine. We felt this was misleading, edited the topic for better communication and clarity for those browsing the contents of the forum and added this note so the post would still make sense.

Well I actually made that part up. But a v. interesting article, I thought. Turns out it's all in your head. A couple of studies, including one sponsored by Georg Riedel in an effort to back up his claims, have found no evidence that glassware makes a significant improvement in the taste or aroma of wine. Moreover, the whole idea that a glass can direct wine to certain regions of the mouth and can thus be tailored to flatter a specific style of wine is basically nonsense since it disregards how taste buds actually function. People who believe wine tastes better in Riedel glasses are suffering from raised expectations, a sort of placebo effect. Which doesn't invalidate their experience, of course, but one wonders if the same effect can be gained by other things carefully designed to raise expectations. $400 wine tasting clogs, perhaps (They put the nose at the proper nosing angle.) Or maybe the oenophile's barcalounger (improves taste!)

michael

[Toliver]

I think this warrents further investigation. Perhaps some eGulleteers who own those wine glasses can volunteer to imbibe...er, I mean, experiment further and report back their findings.

[carswell]

Thanks for the heads-up. Will have to buy Gourmet for once. I've long been a vocal Riedel skeptic, including here on eGullet:

But having played with various Riedels and attended one Riedel-led tasting, I find Riedel's claims exaggerated. And, though a big deal is always made about how their glasses direct the wine to the most receptive area of the tongue, what are we to make of that claim in light of recent studies that show that receptors for bitterness, sweetness, etc. are not specific to any area of the tongue? Psychological factors were obviously at play at the Riedel tasting I attended, and I left wondering whether the whole business wasn't first and foremost a brilliant marketing ploy, a way of upping sales by playing on consumers' insecurities.

However, the number of people whose palates I admire who swear by Riedels sometimes makes me doubt my conclusions. It'll be good to have some source material to cite.

[docsconz]

Anyone for a Wineclip?

[slbunge]

Anyone for a Wineclip?

Ha Ha Ha! I have fond memories of reading that 'lively' discussion.

[robyn]

I read the article. Perhaps where Riedel went wrong was in making quasi-scientific claims. I have (pretty expensive) Orrefors glasses. Can't claim they make what I pour in them taste better. But I don't think I'm ready to serve champagne in jelly glasses alongside fine china (or even paper plates).

I don't really think it's a contest between Riedel and jelly glasses. It's a contest between Riedel and other crystal that's more fashionable (if - like me - you're not a wine geek). If the shapes don't matter taste-wise - then all you're talking about is the look of your table. Robyn

[foodie52]

The most recent Riedel brilliant marketing device is stemless wineglasses.

That's right, stemless. You still get the correctly shaped bowl, but no stem. The glasses look like goldfish bowls. Kinda cute, actually. The premise is that you can put them in the dishwasher and not worry about breaking the stems, 'cause there aren't any!

[MsMelkor]

The most recent Riedel  brilliant marketing device is stemless wineglasses.

That's right, stemless. You still get the correctly shaped bowl, but no stem. The glasses look like goldfish bowls. Kinda cute, actually. The premise is that you can put them in the dishwasher and not worry about breaking the stems, 'cause there aren't any!

Yes, but you get fingerprints all over the bowl, whereas with a traditional wine glass if you hold it by the stem or foot you don't. Also, depending on how you hold the O glass (Riedel's name for their stemless line), you may warm up the wine with the heat of your hand.

[Bux]

Yes, but you get fingerprints all over the bowl, whereas with a traditional wine glass if you hold it by the stem or foot you don't. Also, depending on how you hold the O glass (Riedel's name for their stemless line), you may warm up the wine with the heat of your hand.

Many people seem to prefer to hold stemware by the bowl as well. Perhaps there's some sense of voluptuous to that, but invariably fingerprints are left which mar the beauty of the wine and the glass. There's the temperature as well. At any rate, I find it rather unattractive to see people holding a wine glass by the bowl. A brandy snifter is another thing.

Brilliant marketing perhaps, but I don't see the O glass as a connoisseur's glass.

[Toliver]

The most recent Riedel  brilliant marketing device is stemless wineglasses.

That's right, stemless. You still get the correctly shaped bowl, but no stem. The glasses look like goldfish bowls. Kinda cute, actually. The premise is that you can put them in the dishwasher and not worry about breaking the stems, 'cause there aren't any!

I've seen these stemless glasses advertised and am having trouble understanding the concept. I've always heard that when drinking some wines, you should hold the glass by the stem instead of the bowl as the warmth of our hands can impact the wine negatively. Is this a myth?

If it's not a myth and if that idea has some merit, then why remove the stem of the glass which forces the drinkers to hold the glass by the bowl?

[fifi]

Heh... I have snagged several Spiegelau wine glasses from Amazon for about $25 for sets of 6. They look great on the table and if one breaks I won't cry. I am not a wine freak so what do I know.

Actually, some of my wine freak friends have taken to drinking wine out of regular juice glasses and such claiming that this is "bistro style".

[docsconz]

I've been drinking Prosecco out of juice glasses (or even plastic cups while camping ) this summer. It has been refreshing as ever

[egator]

The most recent Riedel brilliant marketing device is stemless wineglasses.

That's right, stemless. You still get the correctly shaped bowl, but no stem. The glasses look like goldfish bowls. Kinda cute, actually. The premise is that you can put them in the dishwasher and not worry about breaking the stems, 'cause there aren't any!

We use our Riedels (with stems) probably more than we should and always put them in the dishwasher. As long as they're not touching anything else in the dishwasher, they come out great. I don't think we've lost a stem yet.

[Big Bunny]

The most recent Riedel  brilliant marketing device is stemless wineglasses.

That's right, stemless. You still get the correctly shaped bowl, but no stem. The glasses look like goldfish bowls. Kinda cute, actually. The premise is that you can put them in the dishwasher and not worry about breaking the stems, 'cause there aren't any!

Yes, but you get fingerprints all over the bowl, whereas with a traditional wine glass if you hold it by the stem or foot you don't. Also, depending on how you hold the O glass (Riedel's name for their stemless line), you may warm up the wine with the heat of your hand.

Don't you have wine gloves?

BB

[MsMelkor]

Don't you have wine gloves?

Of course - a different set of gloves for each set of wine glasses. Personally I prefer the snug fit of the Champagne gloves, but others might prefer the roomy yet tapered Burgundy gloves

[Joe Blowe]

Actually, some of my wine freak friends have taken to drinking wine out of regular juice glasses and such claiming that this is "bistro style".

Hrrmm. Sounds like your friends need to "man up" a bit.

When I drink my wine out of a juice glass, I like to pretend that I'm Michael Corleone sitting with my comrades in Sicily, shotguns laid out on the table...

[Bux]

The most recent Riedel  brilliant marketing device is stemless wineglasses.

That's right, stemless. You still get the correctly shaped bowl, but no stem. The glasses look like goldfish bowls. Kinda cute, actually. The premise is that you can put them in the dishwasher and not worry about breaking the stems, 'cause there aren't any!

Yes, but you get fingerprints all over the bowl, whereas with a traditional wine glass if you hold it by the stem or foot you don't. Also, depending on how you hold the O glass (Riedel's name for their stemless line), you may warm up the wine with the heat of your hand.

Don't you have wine gloves?

BB

Of course I have gloves, but I take them off when I'm eating. Otherwise they get all greasy from the chicken.

[Big Bunny]

Of course I have gloves, but I take them off when I'm eating. Otherwise they get all greasy from the chicken.

You put your chicken gloves OVER your wine gloves, silly!

BB

[formerly grueldelux]

Moderator's note: The original title of this thread was: Big study shows riedel glasses ruin taste of wine. We felt this was misleading, edited the topic for better communication and clarity for those browsing the contents of the forum and added this note so the post would still make sense.

Sorry about that. I think most people could see that I was joking around, but I agree that the topic title was misleading, and I support your changes.

_______

I gather this subject has been talked about in wine forums and here on eGullet, but do you know if any of the other food glossies have touched it? Does it strike you as a bold article for Gourmet to publish? I stikes me as a departure; I don't normally think of Gourmet debunking wine folderol (I thought they had not only swallowed the Kool-Aid, but had done so with special Riedel Kool-Aid glasses.) Who can take those specialized wine glasses seriously anymore? Hasn't the placebo effect now been removed?

[phaelon56]

To me the notion that a specially shaped wine glass can somehow deliver critical taste components more effectively to certain areas of the tongue and specific taste receptors is hysterically crazy and laughable.

However, it's easy to understand how the placebo effect can work. If smelling the bouquet of the wine becomes an integral part of the experience and a particular shape does a better job of delivering the goods to your olfactory glands a "better glass might help.

More significant to me is the fact that for many of us food and beverage consumption is part of a seamless overall aesthetic experience. I don't even drink alcohol but when I drink Ame with a meal (my non-alcohic beverage of choice), I drink it in a really nice crystal wine glass and it tastes better to me. There's a certain point at which visual and physically tangible enhancements (good flatware that fits comfortably in the hand, appealing china, proper lighting, good company, the right music..... all contribute to the drinking and dining experience in ways that can't realisticlly be measured or spearated from the overall experience. And if they could be I wouldn't want to do it.

[Brad Ballinger]

Riedel stemware of all shapes and sizes is a topic that frequently comes up in the wine forum. A summary of some conventional wisdom on the general topic is that the Riedel stems help with enjoying the bouquet of the wine -- the shape of the bowls allows the aromas to expand within. Opinions on mixed about the delivery to the exact spot on the tongue claim. And they look cool.

The O glasses are new product designed by marketing.

There is a current discussion of the Riedel tasting glasses going on in the wine forum right now. These are glasses that have hollow stems so you can measure a pour of wine, and then you can roll the glass on the table to aerate it and evaluate the color. You don't want to be caught without one!

[robyn]

The O glasses are new product designed by marketing.

One thing I don't understand about the "O" glasses. They're supposed to be designed to be put in dishwashers (no stems). But who puts fine crystal in a dishwasher - stems or no stems - unless you want your glasses to get "etched" pretty quickly? Robyn

[JAZ]

A couple of years ago, I read an online article about a side-by-side taste test (not blind) in various glasses. The author was skeptical in a good way, and the article was very interesting. The glasses (as I recall) were a paper cup, a "juice glass," a cheap generic stemmed wine glass, a Vinum Reidel of the appropriate type and a Sommelier Reidel.

His findings were that the type of glass did definitely make a difference with the aroma and bouquet, although as I recall, the cheap wine glass finished barely in front of the paper cup in that regard, and behind the juice glass.

But when it came to the taste, he said that the only glass that made any difference at all was the Sommelier Reidel, which actually tasted better than the others. He was obviously very surprised by that, and had no explanation.

I've never had a problem believing that Reidel glasses (or other glass lines with various shapes) can help to optimize the bouquet and aroma of wines, but the taste claims have always seemed silly to me. I've drunk wines out of Reidel glasses (Vinum line only) at Reidel sponsored tastings and at home, and I don't get the hype. But I've never tried the Somelier line, so I have to reserve judgment on that, given the conclusion of that article (which, stupid me, I didn't bookmark).

Oh, but the stemless glasses have got to be the best marketing gimmick since -- I don't know, Members Only jackets. (Although the white stemless glasses would make way cool rocks glasses, even if they are a bit fragile.)

[Steve Martin]

But when it came to the taste, he said that the only glass that made any difference at all was the Sommelier Reidel, which actually tasted better than the others. He was obviously very surprised by that, and had no explanation.

It is my opinion that the fineness of the glass makes the difference. The thin edge makes the wine taste better, either by presenting it to the tongue differently or introducing more air. It's why tea tastes better in bone china and why rolled edged glasses are a bad choice.

Why is the "psychological effect" always regarded as somehow spurious and that people with less horse sense than our august selves are being hoodwinked. Here heightened expectation is a "placebo" for fools.

We throw the food on the plate and drink out of cheap glasses. No fooling us.

[LEdlund]

But who puts fine crystal in a dishwasher - stems or no stems - unless you want your glasses to get "etched" pretty quickly? Robyn

I switched to liquid dishwasher soap to avoid etching. And it works!