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celenes

Chocolate Mousse: Recipes, Questions

117 posts in this topic

I agree that's a hugh amount of gelatin. I would bloom a tsp of gelatin in a Tbsp of water. Then heat it just until the gelatin dissolves. As you whip your cream, add the gelatin just before the cream is as whipped as you want. The rest of the recipe is fine. Adding the gelatin to the cream will keep it from siezing the chocolate and still allow it to help with the structure of the mousse. I would pipe it into the serving cups and store it in the refrigerator. People ooh and aah over chocolate bowls in this application.

Just my thoughts.

Ellen

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Uhhh...folks, White couvertue is comprised of: Cocoa butter, sugar, and milk powder. The cocoa butter does a fine job of providing firmness, as a slab of white couverture is rock-solid at room temp.

I have made numerous recipies with gelatine, but my method is to add the warmed dissolved gelatin into the whipped yolks/whipped eggs, then fold the couverture under this, then the whipped cream, then any booze.

Other recipies call for couverture and butter, which are melted together. With the addition of extra fat (butter) the chocoalte won't sieze up when you add any liquids.

Hope this helps

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Interesting method listed.

I would use about 1 tbsp of gelatin, max. Bloom in 1/2 cup of cold water, heat until the gelatin dissolves, then set aside to cool before mixing with the cream. Or, more simple... pick up an envelope of Dr. Oeteker's Whip-it, which is a crystalized stabilizer and needs no dissolving. Gelatin seems rather optional to this recipe, though.

Beat egg yolks until lemony. Beat in bailey's. Temper into the melted chocolate. [possibly, return to double boiler and heat to 140ºF? to please the USDA food safety police]

Whip cream until soft peaks form. The gelatin will serve to stabilize the cream.

Fold (cooled) chocolate mixture into cream. Distribute to moulds. Chill or freeze.


Karen Dar Woon

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Can someone clarify when one would use gelatin and when one would not? I've been making chocolate (not white chocolate) mousse for years, in quantities small and large, and have never used gelatin. I've relied on eggs, separated, with the whipped whites providing the volume, and have never had a problem with stabilization, even with leftovers sitting in the fridge days later. I'd hesitate to deviate from a successful formula without good reason. Does the white chocolate make a difference?



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I would use about 1 tbsp of gelatin, max.

That would put the gelatin at about 1% by weight of the total recipe. I generally shoot for the .5% or so range for chocolate based mousses that will be unmolded or used in cakes. 1% is a safe number to go with though, it's what I use as a starting point for non-chocolate based mousses (and then work down). It may not put you at the minimum needed to do the job but it shouldn't cross the line into spongy. And of course that's just my way, definitely not the way.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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There are quite a few recipies that don't need gelatine. As the cocoa butter solidifies, it provides all the firmess you need. Indeed, many "new-fangled" frut mousses and the like use pure cocoa butter for firmness and no gelatine at all.

If the ratio of chocoalte to eggs and cream is very low, or if there is a lot of liquids (booze, fruit juices etc.)you will need an additional stablizer. But I must confess tht I don't know this ratio. What I do know is that one leaf of gelatine will provide enough firmness for 100 grams of base puree (any fruit or veg. puree) and 100 gams of whipped cream. Some people have a good choc. mousse recipie without gelatine and want to have extra firmess, say for a cake or a buffet item that will take alot of abuse, and for this reason will add gelatine to it.

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Can someone clarify when one would use gelatin and when one would not?

The dividing line for me is what I plan to do with it. If I'm going to remove it from whatever I set it in and have it freestanding or use it as a layer or cover for a cake, I use gelatin. If I'm going to let it set in whatever I plan to serve it in, I don't use gelatin. The stability I'm after isn't about keeping it from seperating, it's about strength. But you want the minimum needed to give you the strength you want because mousse is not spongy or gelled. If you're serving your mousse from the container it sets in, there's no reason to work gelatin into a recipe that already works great for you.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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If the ratio of chocoalte to eggs and cream is very low, or if there is a lot of liquids (booze, fruit juices etc.)you will need an additional stablizer. But I must confess tht I don't know this ratio. What I do know is that one leaf of gelatine will provide enough firmness for 100 grams of base puree (any fruit or veg. puree) and 100 gams of whipped cream. Some people have a good choc. mousse recipie without gelatine and want to have extra firmess, say for a cake or a buffet item that will take alot of abuse, and for this reason will add gelatine to it.

I've had this problem ongoing with my strawberry mousse--it goes perfectly in a glass or some sort of serving vessel, but to have it molded it collapses under its own weight...I'd even say it'd collapse just by looking at it!

That being said, I did learn something new with your comment about 1 sheet being good enough for the 100g of base + 100g of cream. Does anyone know the conversion of 1 sheet to granulated gelatin? All i've got at home now is a decent size container of knox powder, and I haven't seen gelatin sheets at the restaurant supply that I go to (either that, or I just haven't looked hard enough)

-D


Danny

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On the gelatin/water question I think a good rule of thumb is to dissolve 1 gram of gelatin in 5 grams of water. The water should not be hot in the first instance (this can actually slow down dissolution as it can cause the outer surface of the grains to swell quickly and prevent the water permeating through -- or so I have been told). And it is also best to put the water in a small container and sprinkle the gelatin over the surface (they say if you pour water onto a pile of gelatin the grains at the bottom can be trapped dry by the hydrated gelatin). Then to heat the hydrated gelatin for use pop it in a microwave for 15 or so seconds until it just starts steaming.

Hope this helps,

R

PS Not totally convinced by egg yolks in a White chocolate mousse but that's another story...


===================================================

I kept a blog during my pâtisserie training in France: Candid Cake

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The average sheet of gold strength gelatin is 2g. Using that with the 200g of mousse (100g base + 100g cream) puts you at that 1% I mentioned above. An average envelope of the powder is 7g and measures about 2 1/2 teaspoons. If you were going to sub by weight at 1:1 (which isn't exactly accurate but will be close enough for this purpose since you're dealing with small amounts either way, I think the actual conversion works out to about 1.9g of the powder) then you would need 2g from that envelope. A teaspoon from that envelope should weigh around 2.8g which is to the high side but probably not enough to be spongy. Cut it back to 3/4 teaspoon and you will be very close. Weigh out 1.9g and you will be spot on. If you want to play a little, try cutting it to about 1/2 that amount or a little more and you'll probably find that the stability is still fine with a chocolate based mousse but that 1% is a safe and widely used number.


Edited by Tri2Cook (log)

It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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I have about 1.5kg (3 pounds) of chocolate mousse that I prepared today that has been sitting in the refrigerator for the past 7 hours. The top of the mousse seems to have set and looks like it has a good consistency. However underneath the surface it has not firmed up.

Here is the recipe I used:

170g (6oz) dark chocolate (52% cocoa)

150ml (5fl oz) full-fat milk

1 egg yolk

4 egg whites

20g (3/4oz) powdered sugar

I am quite sure that I followed the recipe correctly. Basically the milk was brought to a boil and added to the melted chocolate. I mixed the egg yolk with the milk and chocolate. Mixed a 3rd of the egg whites (whipped to firm peaks) and then folded in the rest. What I did differently this time around is instead of pouring into small cups I have put the entire mixture in one larger bowl so maybe it will take longer to set or so I am hoping atleast :-). Last time I put in espresso cups and the consistency was quite good (was not liquidy but not perfectly set either). Do you think that overnight it will set up a little more? If not what can I do to correct it because I cannot make it again (no time/ ingredients). Will it firm up if I put in the freezer for an hour?

Hoping to get a reply that will calm me down a little!

Thanks

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This is sort of an odd recipe to me. I have never used milk in a mousse.....always heavy cream. My first thought is that it is the milk that is causing your mousse not to set properly. If you put your mousse in the freezer, the top, that has set, will have sort of a frozen fluffy consistency, but I'm afraid the bottom that has not set, will freeze solid. I don't think there's much of a fix for a mousse you've already made. You might try folding in some chocolate whipped cream, but I'm not sure how that would work out, to be honest.

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Well when I did it in the espresso cups the last time around using the same recipe it almost set in a couple hours. It was close to the right mousse consistency. This time I feel it could probably have something to do with the mass as it is 8 times the quantity in a single bowl so maybe its taking longer to get chilled?? Maybe I am completely wrong and will not have to look for an eggless chocolate mousse recipe because no eggs around and its midnight here :(

Am trying one batch in the freezer and checking every 20 mins to make sure it does not freeze, hoping that improves it.

Thanks for your input. Looking for more suggestions.

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I agree, that the mousse would take longer to set in a larger bowl. But still, any mousse should set up in 7 hours, even in a big bowl.

Hopefully someone else can chime in here, because all I can think of is the milk.

Also you did say when you put the mousse in the espresso cups, the consistency was "almost" right. So I figure "almost" in the smaller cup would be

"maybe not" in the bigger bowl. :unsure:


Edited by chefpeon (log)

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Since the mousse is for an order I have and without any extra mousse I could not mess around with it much. When I tap the bowl it sort of wiggles like jelly and so I felt it is liquidy at the bottom. However when I put the back of a spoon rite at the bottom I was relieved to find that it was not liquidy at all. Should have taken a picture to show you. Next time I will try some agar agar or gelatin or as you suggested cream. Maybe if I reduce the milk by 50gms also it may make a difference.

Thanks for the help

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Lets look at some percentages shall we?

170g (6oz) dark chocolate (52% cocoa)

150ml (5fl oz) full-fat milk

1 egg yolk

4 egg whites

20g (3/4oz) powdered sugar

So out of 495g total we have:

170 - 34% Chocolate

150 - 30% Milk

15 - 3% yolk

140 - 28% white

20 - 4% sugar

setting agent is at 34% and aeration agent is at 28%. Unfortunately your aeration is too low and unstable for your setting amount. You have a few options, all leading to reducing your liquifying agent at 37% (milk, sugar, yolk) and since you are not cooking this mix eggs will simply count as a liquefier.

Here are your options, you can replace all ingredients, besides chocolate, with heavy cream and even reduce your chocolate quantity as low as 20%, or you can reduce your milk by half which is completely logical as well. A two to one ratio of chocolate to milk will give you enough stabilization to gain a firm mousse. You can also use a more stable aeration and reduce your liquefier by a quarter. A stable aeration like whipped cream, pate a bombe or italian meringue. Part of your problem is the egg whites breaking down as the mousse sets. The egg whites are very dry on top as all of the moisture/water molecules drop to the bottom, thats why it appears to be set on top and not all the way through, really its just forming a thick aerated skin. You may have also over whipped the egg whites and or waited to long to incorporate, having a more stable aerating ingredient can resolve these issues.

Switching to cream for the milk in a "ganache" is not going to give you a much better result, not really at all because the cream is not being aerated and remains in the liquid form. Try to get your aeration percentage above 50% and you will be just fine.


Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

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Lets look at some percentages shall we?

170g (6oz) dark chocolate (52% cocoa)

150ml (5fl oz) full-fat milk

1 egg yolk

4 egg whites

20g (3/4oz) powdered sugar

So out of 495g total we have:

170 - 34% Chocolate

150 - 30% Milk

15 - 3% yolk

140 - 28% white

20 - 4% sugar

setting agent is at 34% and aeration agent is at 28%. Unfortunately your aeration is too low and unstable for your setting amount. You have a few options, all leading to reducing your liquifying agent at 37% (milk, sugar, yolk) and since you are not cooking this mix eggs will simply count as a liquefier.

Here are your options, you can replace all ingredients, besides chocolate, with heavy cream and even reduce your chocolate quantity as low as 20%, or you can reduce your milk by half which is completely logical as well. A two to one ratio of chocolate to milk will give you enough stabilization to gain a firm mousse. You can also use a more stable aeration and reduce your liquefier by a quarter. A stable aeration like whipped cream, pate a bombe or italian meringue. Part of your problem is the egg whites breaking down as the mousse sets. The egg whites are very dry on top as all of the moisture/water molecules drop to the bottom, thats why it appears to be set on top and not all the way through, really its just forming a thick aerated skin. You may have also over whipped the egg whites and or waited to long to incorporate, having a more stable aerating ingredient can resolve these issues.

Switching to cream for the milk in a "ganache" is not going to give you a much better result, not really at all because the cream is not being aerated and remains in the liquid form. Try to get your aeration percentage above 50% and you will be just fine.

Very informative post!

Is tempereing eggs considered cooking them? Because I am pouring the hot milk and melted chocolate over my eggs. Sugar is not cooked yes.

I whipped my whites to stiff peaks though there was some liquid present in the whites when I folded it into the above mixture. This is maybe overwhipping them.

Perhaps as you have suggested I should reduce my quantity of milk by half to get a more stable mousse (this would make aeration % 33) or I can altogether omit the milk as it just dilutes the melted chocolate and then this would give me aeration % 40. Leaving the yolk in would give it that extra richness either way since there is no cream. I would prefer whipped egg whites over whipped cream as it is lighter and would last longer in the refrigerator than cream would. Advantage of cream would be that it would be eggless dessert and that sells from where I am.

Should give both versions a try and report back with some pics. What say?


Edited by Varun Sheth (log)

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I tried two versions, one with no milk but egg yolk egg whites remained same and so did the sugar. The volume I achieved with this was very poor and the mousse was too dense and I had to put in effort to take a scoop of the mousse. What I will do next time is make it with half the milk from the original recipe as you suggested and the consistency would be much better.

Second version was made with whipped cream and melted chocolate nothing else. This completely took away the rich chocolate flavor. However the consistency was spot on.

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I like to add some espresso to my chocolate mousse. Roughly 1/2 of a shot to a cup of cream. It's subtle, but the bitterness frames the chocolate flavor nicely.

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Interesting how different chocolate mousse recipes can be. The problem you describe is one I've had only with leftover mousse after many days, maybe a week, sitting in the fridge, when it starts to separate. It hardly ever lasts that long anyway. I could not have offered you the beautifully detailed critique of your recipe that chiantiglace provided, my hat's off.

My basic recipe could not be more different but I've been making it for years and it has not yet failed me. Credit to Patricia Wells, "Bistro Cooking."

8 oz/250 g bittersweet chocolate

4 oz/120 g unsalted butter

8 large egg yolks

1/2 cup/100 g sugar

5 large egg whites

flavorings such as vanilla (I always use it), coffee, grand marnier, etc.

good luck!



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Did you leave it in the fridge covered or uncovered? It could be that the top has dehydrated which gives it the appearance of being set.


PS: I am a guy.

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ok sooooo my chocolate mousse used to be ok when i'd make small batches....but i've had to increase my production and its just not the same product anymore its like a 50/50 chance it'll either come out smooth or grainy

this is my recipe

4# 8oz milk chocolate

16oz whole milk

3 sticks butter

24oz heavy cream

2tbsp gelatin

9c heavy cream

melt milk & butter, pour over chocolate, stir to combine

bloom gelatin in 16oz cream, melt & combine with chocolate mixture

whip 9c cream to soft/medium peaks then combine it all together (after its all properly cooled)

could i be overmixing it? i'm honestly not sure what to do here, i've used this recipe for the better part of a year now and its always worked well but now with the larger quantities its getting frustrating =/

does anyone have some knowledge as to why this could be happening? i'll even switch to a different recipe thats easier to work with in larger amounts if need be

thanks in advance


Danny

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You may be burning the chocolate. What happens when you increase the volume of a recipe like this is that the hot milk, butter, and cream represents a proportionately larger hot mass that won't cool off as quickly because of the physics of the surface area to mass ratio. Also, it's the hottest part of the summer and your ambient room temperature is hotter as well. Even a few degrees difference in the room temperature affects things.

I would:

Carefully monitor and regulate the temperature of the milk.

Add the butter after the milk has heated the chocolate, just before stirring -maybe cut into small chunks.

Carefully regulate the temperature of the cream as it heats.

Temp the mixture as you work and try to keep it as low as possible.

Take notes about the room's temperature each time.

Hope this helps!

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I would say that the chocolate is overheated, but I'm not sure how given your method. Hope you can get it sorted.


Edited by Broken English (log)

James.

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yeah, at first i could just mix the chocolate, milk & butter and melt them all together and it was ok. but once the #s went up, i started burning it..so i heated the milk & butter together, then poured it over the chocolate and combined it. if it didn't melt completely i'd just put it over a dbl boiler and finish melting it. i think i'm going to try melting the chocolate first, melting the butter with the milk, and then combine the 2 liquids and see how that goes =/

it always ends up coming out as a nice dense mousse, not the typical light and airy fluffy mousse you see everywhere else so i'm really hoping to be able to keep it like this hehe


Danny

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