Food Shutter Bug Club (Part 1)

[pcarpen]

a couple of my recent shots. it's taken some time to get used to the D70, as well as figure out a place with decent lighting in my kitchen. let me know what you think...

Bun Tom: vietnamese noodles with grilled shrimp, cabbage, greens, pickled onions, herbs, chopped peanuts, and nuoc nam

Risotto with Fresh Ricotta, Lemon, and Mint

[Toliver]

pcarpen, your photos rock! I've been admiring your posts for a while in the "Dinner!" thread. The second picture you posted above is a little too off-center for me but I'm A-R that way.

Your plating is always dead-on beautiful, too.

Can you take a picture of your lighting & lighting area so we can see the set up/arrangement?

Regarding the D70, what has taken the most time to get used to with the camera?

[fifi]

I am interested in your comments about the D70 as well. I seem to be homing in on that puppy.

I agree with Toliver. Your shots rock. I actually find the off center composition of the second picture intriguing. Risotto arriving by flying saucer!

What lens were you using on the D70?

[pcarpen]

pcarpen, your photos rock!  I've been admiring your posts for a while in the "Dinner!" thread.  The second picture you posted above is a little too off-center for me but I'm A-R that way.  

Your plating is always dead-on beautiful, too.

Can you take a picture of your lighting & lighting area so we can see the set up/arrangement?

Regarding the D70, what has taken the most time to get used to with the camera?

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Thanks for the kind words. I look back at some of those old photos on the dinner! thread and realize how bad they were in comparison to what i'm doing now. a couple of things contributed to that.

1. I was using an old 2MP point and shoot digital, the Canon S200. It's a great little camera, but it obviously doesn't give you the control and detail that a SLR will give you.

2. Lighting. The worst thing that i was doing was using the flash. It gave everything a harsh, blown-out look and put everything in the background in the dark. It just made it all look completely unnatural. Using the ambient or natural light in the room (and adjusting the shutter speed accordingly) lets the shots come out so much more even, crisp, and correctly exposed.

3. Post-processing. I never really took the time to learn how to post-process correctly in Photoshop. Since experimenting more with non-food shots, I've learned a little more and have been able to get the results that I want, even if the original shot doesn't look completely right. By default, the D70 underexposes shots in order to not blow out the highlights. This took a while to get adjusted to, and there are come Custom Curves you can use to compensate for this a bit (but that is a whole other huge topic which you can read about on the D70 Forums). But generally speaking, post-processing in order to adjust levels, boost certain colors (e.g. the lemon zest on the risotto and the chili sauce on the noodles), using the Unsharp Mask, etc. can completely change the photo. I used to think that I should be able to get shots like this directly out of the camera, but I'm certainly not that skilled or knowledgable.

As far as lighting is concerned, these are actually just taken on the counter next to the sink. There are some ugly track lights that we have hanging over the sink for a little extra light, and they're pointed towards the wall behind it, so the reflected light is what is falling on the plates. I'll try to get a shot of it later. Although I need to find another spot so that I don't keep taking the same shot over and over. It gets a little boring.

And to answer your questions about the D70, I love it. I did a lot of research before I bought it last summer, and I've never regretted it. I was new to the SLR world, so it took a fair amount of adjustment and practice. You really just have to keep shooting and experimenting to get comfortable with it. For these shots, I generally use it in AE mode (Aperture Priority), usually set down to the lowest setting (4.5) since I like the whole out of focus background depth of field thing. And I'm using the kit lens, which is the 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G.

[Toliver]

3. Post-processing...in order to adjust levels, boost certain colors (e.g. the lemon zest on the risotto and the chili sauce on the noodles), using the Unsharp Mask, etc. can completely change the photo. I used to think that I should be able to get shots like this directly out of the camera, but I'm certainly not that skilled or knowledgable.

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Exactly. The Ansel Adams/Annie Leibovitz's of the world are few and far between and with today's cameras and post-processing software, you don't have to be them in order to get a great looking photo.

Post-processing can rescue a so-so photo and turn it into something worthy of being on the cover of Gourmet magazine.

...I need to find another spot so that I don't keep taking the same shot over and over. It gets a little boring.

Says you. You're bored by it because you see it 100 percent on the time. But it's not that noticable in your pictures. Besides, if viewers are noticing the background ("Hey, he's used that backdrop before!"), then you have a problem because they're not paying attention to the subject of your picture, namely the food. I'd suggest not worrying about the background since it's such a minor aspect of your photos.

And thanks for posting the D70 links!

[s'kat]

[Exactly.  The Ansel Adams/Annie Leibovitz's of the world are few and far between and with today's cameras and post-processing software, you don't have to be them in order to get a great looking photo.

Let's not forget, though, that Ansel Adams was a master of darkroom work, and his images were intensively post-processed.

Great discussion everyone. I'm in the market for a digital SLR, and the comments here have been invaluable.

[pcarpen]

Says you.  You're bored by it because you see it 100 percent on the time.  But it's not that noticable in your pictures.  Besides, if viewers are noticing the background ("Hey, he's used that backdrop before!"), then you have a problem because they're not paying attention to the subject of your picture, namely the food.  I'd suggest not worrying about the background since it's such a minor aspect of your photos.

i guess it's not boredom of the same background, but the same composition. white plate or bowl, shot slightly off-center, from the same angle. I guess it puts the focus on the food, so that's a good thing. I'd like to try to get more "action" shots, which are obviously tougher to get. More of the cooking process as opposed to just the finished pretty-plate product.

Heidi uses similar backgrounds and angles, but her variation in dishware, background colors, and table coverings give them all such a unique but cohesive look. Some very nice stuff.

[Behemoth]

I'm glad this thread is active again. Pete, I guess I got active on eGullet after you were gone, since I'm sure I would have remembered your photos!

I love my D70, I've had it for about 9 months now and it was totally worth every penny. I really like the spot metering feature, which isn't available on a lot of other cameras.

For food photos, I have the same problem you do, lighting in my kitchen is lousy. I also shoot usually next to the sink, since there are spotlights, but there is no white wall behind the counter, so they point straight down. I clearly need to get my hands on photoshop, though I have been reluctant so far since I really want to have to worry about all that stuff for a while before I just think "screw it I can fix it later". Still, most of the stuff I am photographing is not food, but friends and travel stuff, which is more "seat of the pants" so having the means to fix imperfect shots would be nice. (I have the Nikon Capture program, got it last christmas...I think I will gently suggest photohop for next year )

As far as food and other in-the-house photos, I need to give up on my nonexistant ambient lighting for the time being and buy some sort of light/diffuser setup. Any advice welcome.

Here are a couple of in-kitchen shots I took that I was happy with, though I still think they are a little dark:

(espresso chocolate cake with figs, was on the dinner thread a while back:)

(from the Manna thread, in the ME forum:)

[Toliver]

Heidi uses similar backgrounds and angles, but her variation in dishware, background colors, and table coverings give them all such a unique but cohesive look. Some very nice stuff.

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Heidi has done some great work. She seems to do a lot of shallow depth of field which I find gets boring after a while. It makes a point but why repeat it in everything? Still, it's some very nice work.

...I clearly need to get my hands on photoshop, though I have been reluctant so far since I really want to have to worry about all that stuff for a while before I just think "screw it I can fix it later". Still, most of the stuff I am photographing is not food, but friends and travel stuff, which is more "seat of the pants" so having the means to fix imperfect shots would be nice. (I have the Nikon Capture program, got it last christmas...I think I will gently suggest photohop for next year  )

Here are a couple of in-kitchen shots I took that I was happy with, though I still think they are a little dark:

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I ran both pictures through Photoshop and it helped liven them both up a little. I won't post them unless you give permission.

I would hate to think you would have to post-process every picture you take. Are all of your pictures this dark?

I don't want to make post-processing sound like a be-all, end-all answer to making good photographs. It's not. Like the saying, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" you have to at least start off with something decent to end up with something that looks better than decent. But post-processing can be a great tool to enhance what is there.

If you can't afford the full-blown Photoshop CS, which is really overkill for the average photographer anyway, I'd recommend Adobe Elements which uses many of Photoshop's image processing tools.

[Behemoth]

I ran both pictures through Photoshop and it helped liven them both up a little.  I won't post them unless you give permission.

I would hate to think you would have to post-process every picture you take.  Are all of your pictures this dark?

I don't want to make post-processing sound like a be-all, end-all answer to making good photographs.  It's not.  Like the saying, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" you have to at least start off with something decent to end up with something that looks better than decent.  But post-processing can be a great tool to enhance what is there.

If you can't afford the full-blown Photoshop CS, which is really overkill for the average photographer anyway, I'd recommend Adobe Elements which uses many of Photoshop's image processing tools.

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You can post them if you like. All the photos I take in my kitchen are dark, because my kitchen is dark. Photos taken in better light are brighter, obviously, but as far as lighting in our current house, the kitchen is as good as anywhere. It would bother me a lot more if we weren't moving in the next few months.

To some extent, I like dark pictures though. The bright pictures garner the most enthusiasm from others I guess, (I've taken lots of photos of fruits and stuff outside, which various friends and family have asked me for as wall decorations) but it is the dark ones that I personally end up staring at the longest. I gravitate towards darker paintings in museums also, which is strange since as a person I am all sweetness and light. (Ha.)

I think Nikon capture should be enough for now, it is really a good program and I haven't explored it nearly as much as I should. I plan to also start playing with RAW files.

Back to lighting: what would be a good solution for photos inside the house? Nothing too spendy, but a decent lighting system?

[Toliver]

Both images were helped by adjusting the contrast and brightening them a little. I also ran them through the Unsharp Mask filter, too. I also increased the saturation a little on the first photo which made it a "warmer" shot. The fruit is more inviting after the adjustment.

One problem with brightening a photo using post-processing software like Photoshop, is that the entire picture is brightened equally overall. Sometimes this can make a picture seem flat.

What I ended up doing was fading the new adjusted brightended image into the darkened image. It's mostly noticeable on the second photo towards the top and very bottom. This made the center pieces stand out more, giving the image a little "drama", if you will.

You say you like dark images. I'm guessing what you mean is you like images that have an overall dark tone to them but still have a subject that is "lit". If everything were dark, it would be pretty boring.

I've mentioned this in an earlier post but lighting in a photograph is like a magician's trick. You make the audience see what you want them to see by controlling what is lit and what isn't.

I am in hopes that some of the other photographers who've posted their dinner photos in the "Dinner!" thread will talk about their lighting set ups, if any.

[caroline]

I've learned such a lot from this thread. the D-70 sounds great and I'm saving up. But right now I'm looking for something slightly different.

I'm after a small camera to use to record what I see when I am doing culinary exploring in artisanal workshops, villages, occasionally markets. So what I want is something unobtrusive, something that I can whip out at a moment's notice, that doesn't need a flash in low lighting, that has a quick response time and (if such perfection can be achieved) something that takes pictures good enough to post on a web, use in publications. Several people have suggested the Canon Elph 4 or 5 megapixel.

Does anyone have experience with this? I'd really appreciate input and alternatives,

Rachel

[bilrus]

I am in hopes that some of the other photographers who've posted their dinner photos in the "Dinner!" thread will talk about their lighting set ups, if any.

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I'm one of those who has been posting in the dinner thread. I've progressed in my lighting moving from just taking my pictures under the halogen under-cabinet lights in my kitchen - this was causing a strange, yellowish glow in my pics. I then moved to the dining room table, but that was a little dark. So I turned a reading light to point towards the dining room table. This helped bring up some more contrast.

I have been using Photoshop to make adjustments to the Levels and the brightness and contrast.

These are a few of my recent shots (of course any comments would be helpful):

I've been using a Canon Powershot A85 in Macro mode without the flash.

My wife, jenrus, is a much more sophisiticated photographer than I am - she has plans to begin selling her macro photos of flowers this summer. I've convinced her to start taking our dinner pictures using her set up - both to give her more practice, and to make my pictures on the dinner thread better. This will include a tripod, actual lighting with filters and she uses the Canon EOS 20D digital SLR.

I'm hope she'll start posting on this thread with her experiences and get some feedback as well.

[bilrus]

Here is my first pic using the new camera and dedicated lighting. This was my handy work, rather than my wifes. It is a little washed out, but the dish itself was a little washed out too. I think the whites are maybe a little too bright as well.

[Toliver]

Here is my first pic using the new camera and dedicated lighting.  This was my handy work, rather than my wifes.  It is a little washed out, but the dish itself was a little washed out too.  I think the whites are maybe a little too bright as well.

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Ah, do you see the difference in the end results between this new setup and your old setup?

This is a great illustration in what a difference lighting can make in regards to your subject.

The new lighting setup has the main light (the only light?) towards the top/front (a little to the left) of the dish, right? I can see its reflection in the white bowl/plate and I'm also basing this on how the pasta shadows are falling.

But do you see what is missing when you compare the two different light setups?

Ambient light is gone in the new setup. In your previous setups, the lighting was either directly overhead or actually a little bit behind as well as being overhead (in the pic with the pasta with the red sauce the light is off to the upper right). By not having the main light in the front, you open your photograph to the ambient light of the room. As I've posted before, some photographers will actually add a "fill" light or a "reflector" (a white card that softly reflects light) in front of the food out of view of the camera.

Take a look at those beautiful scallops. See how the main light is above and slightly to the back of the food? But you still see the front of the scallops quite well thanks to the ambient light of the room and of the ambient light bouncing off the plate itself back up onto the food.

Experiment. Take two pictures next time. One with the light in your new setup where it is now and another with the light moved back/up above the subject. You'll see the difference right away.

Thanks for posting these images!

[jayt90]

I am in hopes that some of the other photographers who've posted their dinner photos in the "Dinner!" thread will talk about their lighting set ups, if any.

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I'm one of those who has been posting in the dinner thread. I've progressed in my lighting moving from just taking my pictures under the halogen under-cabinet lights in my kitchen - this was causing a strange, yellowish glow in my pics. I then moved to the dining room table, but that was a little dark. So I turned a reading light to point towards the dining room table. This helped bring up some more contrast.

I have been using Photoshop to make adjustments to the Levels and the brightness and contrast.

My wife, jenrus, is a much more sophisiticated photographer than I am - she has plans to begin selling her macro photos of flowers this summer. I've convinced her to start taking our dinner pictures using her set up - both to give her more practice, and to make my pictures on the dinner thread better. This will include a tripod, actual lighting with filters and she uses the Canon EOS 20D digital SLR.

I'm hope she'll start posting on this thread with her experiences and get some feedback as well.

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I'm glad to see someone here mentioning, or using the Canon EOS 20D. There is a lot of discussion about the 70D, and not much info on the 20D. I'll be buying one in June, mostly because I have several EOS lenses, including a macro, and I am very familiar with the EOS film cameras. Apparently the 20D doesn't have a spot meter, and that is a major disappointment. Anyone have experience with this body, and its exposure control?

[johnnyd]

I've been using a Canon Powershot A85 in Macro mode without the flash.

Just picked one up after much research. I'm thrilled at the possibilities. Check out this Thread about my visit to Portland's Fish Exchange which I shot four days after buying my A85. I humbly submit this report to my better-skilled colleagues in hopes of constructive criticsm.

I have noted:

A) I knew better (thanks to this thread) than to use flash but I couldn't resist the fascinating contrasts in the flash and non-flash photos of the boxes of fresh shrimp.

B) I like the movement of the pier guys sliding the boxes along the auction house floor but could have gotten a more stable shot of the boat w/spool unloading. Maybe I was nervous about the fifteen drop into the ice-chunk studded seawater to my left! I was lucky to get Hank stable enough on deck of his boat for a sharp shot (pic #2)

I am still getting to know how to work this thing. I am familiar with some photoshop functions such as unsharp mask and the brightness/contrast, especially in ImageReady. I haven't a clue how Macro Mode works yet, but I do have a plan for lighting when it's time to shoot plates. I just hope I get to it before shrimp season ends!

[bilrus]

Tonight we took several shots of our dinner, moving the lighting around and using a primitive reflector (mainly because I was too lazy to go upstairs and get the real reflector tonight).

These were two the better shots - one pretty straightforward and one with a different perpective.

Both of these were taken with the lighting above and behind to the left, not directed at the plate, with the reflector (a silver cardboard box in this case) in front.

[Toliver]

I like both pictures much better. In the first picture, the lighting is pretty even overall. It's good but there's no distinct key light to provide interest.

In the second picture, the main (key) light is a lot stronger.

It looked like you tilted the dish as well as the camera (which imapcted your plating). I straightened it out in Photoshop so I wasn't as distracted by the angle as before. I also ran it through the Unsharp Mask, as well, to make it "pop" a little more.

You're set-up looks like it will come in quite handy. I am anxious to see more pictures!

[harlanturk]

i believe in the anti-still life of food photography. food moves. it grows. swirls in pots and pans, and arrives through swinging doors. show the ambiance, the history behind the food. i work in a documentary / photo journalistic fashion when i shoot (though commercial has been more profitable, but less rewarding). photograph some else cooking from start to end, exhibiting the process that takes place.

http://harlanturk.com/about.html

[Toliver]

i believe in the anti-still life of food photography. food moves. it grows. swirls in pots and pans, and arrives through swinging doors. show the ambiance, the history behind the food. i work in a documentary / photo journalistic fashion when i shoot (though commercial has been more profitable, but less rewarding). photograph some else cooking from start to end, exhibiting the process that takes place.

http://harlanturk.com/about.html

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Most of the members participating in this discussion would probably describe themselves as "amatuers". They want to learn the basics of how to take well-composed, well-lit pictures of their food for the "Dinner!" thread or other discussions. Once they have that under their belts, so to speak, then I'd encourage them to grow towards more artistic endeavors. First conquer the still life, then move beyond it.

Great work, by the way! Thanks for the link.

[Tepee]

Most of the members participating in this discussion would probably describe themselves as "amatuers".  They want to learn the basics of how to take well-composed, well-lit pictures of their food for the "Dinner!" thread or other discussions.  Once they have that under their belts, so to speak, then I'd encourage them to grow towards more artistic endeavors.  First conquer the still life, then move beyond it.

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Yeah! That'll be my aspiration!

Meantime, to update on my journey, my BIL gave me a cute little yellow tripod, and using the point, focus,move, then shoot process as advised by Toliver earlier, here's what I took recently. I still had to use the sharpen feature to edit the picture. The bao in the front is not popping out as much as I would like it to, but I'm reasonably happy with it. Please feel free to comment.

Edited April 2, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[richardv]

For my tastes, this is significantly over-sharpened. Even though the photo is very small, I can see the sharpening artificats in the texture of the dough and the tiny points of reflected light.

i believe in the anti-still life of food photography. food moves. it grows. swirls in pots and pans, and arrives through swinging doors. show the ambiance, the history behind the food. i work in a documentary / photo journalistic fashion when i shoot (though commercial has been more profitable, but less rewarding). photograph some else cooking from start to end, exhibiting the process that takes place.

http://harlanturk.com/about.html

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Most of the members participating in this discussion would probably describe themselves as "amatuers". They want to learn the basics of how to take well-composed, well-lit pictures of their food for the "Dinner!" thread or other discussions. Once they have that under their belts, so to speak, then I'd encourage them to grow towards more artistic endeavors. First conquer the still life, then move beyond it.

Great work, by the way! Thanks for the link.

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[Tepee]

For my tastes, this is significantly over-sharpened.  Even though the photo is very small, I can see the sharpening artificats in the texture of the dough and the tiny points of reflected light.

Well, I only sharpened it once....lemme go see how it looks unsharpened.

[richardv]

For my tastes, this is significantly over-sharpened.  Even though the photo is very small, I can see the sharpening artificats in the texture of the dough and the tiny points of reflected light.

Well, I only sharpened it once....lemme go see how it looks unsharpened.

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Try experimenting with something subtle:

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