Dessert names and descriptions

[patticky]

Wendy, I love your simple descriptions. If I wanted to read a novel, I would go to the library. In reading a menu, I prefer a basic description so that I know what is in the dish. Period. I don't like fanfare. For me, you are right on target. Patti

[reesek]

wendy,

i vote for simple and evocative - look at each creation and think - what are the elements i want to convey? personally - i'm a huge fan of the ingredient list.

i think maybe since people trust you - you can take a little license. some dishes (like cookies and frozen souffle) are pretty self-explanatory. maybe instead of trying to rename them - you can add the 'alongs' in the description

oreo crumb chocolate torte - caramel and chocolate sauces, pouring cream

vanilla bean souffle - roasted strawberries

assorted cookies - selection rotates daily (implies - fresh, yes?)

by the way - i'd love to try your souffle sometime - it sounds delicious!

[annanstee]

Wendy,

I think Reesek has pinned exactly the way I like to read a food description-evocative, simple, and descriptive.

You could try spinning some of the descriptions into something your clientele will understand or relate to, like the vanilla parfait could become a sundae souffle, or is that too cheesy? It is just the idea of making something unfamiliar to them into something easy to recognize?

I find too many adjectives irritating- I would stick to one or two along with the ingredients, like frozen vanilla parfait, caramel and chocolate sauces, crisp almond tuile.

Also, I certainly would try to use the different types of cake to distinguish between desserts using similar ingredients, like tort, mousse cake, sponge, dacquoise, cheesecake or whatever, than use one simple descriptor to help the client along - light sponge, rich torte, or whatever. They will then know that these are variable creations with similar ingredients and won't feel like idiots if they don't know exactly what it is, because you have given them a little hint.

Also, if something is a big hit I wouldn't hesitate to repeat it exactly as it is... there is nothing wrong with having a trademark dessert!

By the way, whatever you call them, your desserts do sound delicious!

[Rachel Perlow]

Just a thought... since you are now full time, do you think they'd give you a little space in the club's newsletter (assuming they have one). At my parents' club the chef has a half-page to describe what will be served at an upcoming event, how the seasonal menu is changing, etc. I don't think a recipe is ever included. Anyway, I thought it would be cool if you could have a small column where you could describe the seasonal ingredients you are incorporating in your desserts this month, describe a featured dessert that will be on the menu all month. Stuff like "To fully enjoy this summer's bounty, be sure to try the fresh fruit tart for dessert next time you dine at the club." Name the fruit, emphasize the seasonality, etc.

Do you have an extention and voice mail? If so, it could become the dessert request "hotline." If members are coming for dinner and they really want to have something you've made before, they could call a few days/weeks before and request you put it on the menu. I mean, obviously, you can't just make one of something, but people like to have input into a place they go to regularly.

These are ways you could make the pastry section more profitable (stimulating interest and increasing the ordering of desserts without additional cost), making you a more valuable employee.

One other thing, you still seem really frustrated at your inability to write your dessert menu. We're here for you, babe! Tell us what you are planning to make, give us the "ingredient list" description, and I'm sure some evocotive phrases will come your way through the ether. We won't tell that you cheated!

[Wendy DeBord]

One other thing, you still seem really frustrated at your inability to write your dessert menu.

Yes thats exactly it. I never really "got" english class and it shows!

Everything in the job is going great, couldn't be better-sales are amazing. The only area needing real improvement is the weekly menu, titles and descriptions.

I can't write a description that pleases me....or thats at least average. The offer to help me cheat is great-but I need to be able to do the task myself. I need to find a way to achieve this task, with my limited ablities. All my attempts stink and yes I'm frustrated with my inablities. So I just gave up and shut up about it because I can't solve the problem. Instead I pour all my efforts into baking............at least the people are happy with what my items taste like-even if I can't describe them well.

[Rachel Perlow]

OK, wrong word, don't think of it as cheating. As we help you come up with more menu descriptions, we will all be learning. It's educational.

[Wendy DeBord]

O.k............beleive me I'm serious about doing this better and will take any help.

This is this weeks desserts:

I have two monthly specials: apple pie and strawberry shortcake. The pie should be offered a la mode, possibly melted cheese on top. The Shortcakes are a pound cake baked in a savarin mold, dollop of pastry cream, whip cream fresh berries and sb sauce,

The weekly specials are:

1.Baklava-classic

2.Snickers caramel tart-sweet tart shell, ganche, layer of caramel, layer of snickers, caramel whip cream, chocolate and caramel drizzle, dry roasted peanuts and sea salt to accent.

3.Lemon cheesecake- on a dark chocolate crust, served with fresh rasp. and sauce

4.Budini- a warm baked chocolate pudding served a la mode-choice of ice cream or gelatos.

Plus assorted gelatos and ice creams...........and a dessert wine list.

The tricky thing is, nothing will sell if you take too much of a upscale approach. They like whats familar. They don't know was a budini is........I called it a baked chocolate pudding, etc...

So I'm all ears-or eyes-however you'd phrase that using this media. I'm thankful for any help.

[Geetha]

wendy,

i vote for simple and evocative - look at each creation and think - what are the elements i want to convey? personally - i'm a huge fan of the ingredient list. 

i think maybe since people trust you - you can take a little license. some dishes (like cookies and frozen souffle) are pretty self-explanatory. maybe instead of trying to rename them - you can add the 'alongs' in the description

oreo crumb chocolate torte - caramel and chocolate sauces, pouring cream

vanilla bean souffle - roasted strawberries

assorted cookies - selection rotates daily (implies - fresh, yes?)

by the way - i'd love to try your souffle sometime - it sounds delicious!

←

I really don't know if I should add to your burden here to name your creations, which are truly creative and fun, but I have and already overburdened mind here to unload a few questions. May be I should try to add but then youre free to make it a thread of its own on account of its nature of question.

For people like me who have been living in other countries and grown used to a certain specific way of calling few desserts certain names I have found no use of those terms when I arrived here, for instance the sentence from the quote rings in my mind now when you say cookies and souffle names of dishes are self-explanatory, surely I would not be able to agree on this, since in India a simple idea of biscuits are generally what are cookies or rather used to be, and souffle I still cannot determine if I learnt it from my mom was it right or are you in America calling it by another name..

Well all is right when the tastes are good and delicious, my only problem lies in finding our their recipes or even if I want to go to a restaurant to taste them few dishes whose name I don't know correctly. hmm.. how can I describe more ..in detail, may be I should have ot give the recipe in order to know what it this dish after all..

I thought of another idea that could remedy my situation. Is it possible to suggest a good book that may give a proper history and recipe along with it of each dessert.

For instance cassata that I was lloking at in thread some place was made of riccotta and cream only, but I have never known cassata of any other kind except in ice-cream shops wherein there are layers of different flavours of icecream sandwiched between layers of cake.. there are immense differences I perceive in the naming conventions that exist elsewhere. So I urgently need recooperation and ugently request a suggestion of a good book describing in full these elements to clarify my appetite for knowing more about these and other desserts.

[Jason Perlow]

Michael Liaskonis' menu at Le Bernardin in NYC is interesting -- he lists his desserts by primary flavor:

http://www.egullet.com/shared/ml2.pdf

[Geetha]

Michael Liaskonis' menu at Le Bernardin in NYC  is interesting -- he lists his desserts by primary flavor:

http://www.egullet.com/shared/ml2.pdf

←

You might have to give me another link as I'm unable to do anything with Acrobat Reader and my desktop crashes on me I am fixing it in the meantime.

Regards

Geetha

[chocophile]

Wendy:

There have been a number of different posts encouraging you to consider your audience. Because you are in a casual club dining establishment, "Study In/Of ..." does not work because that's not your audience.

-) The place I would start is the non-dessert menus, take your cue from the descriptions there.

-) Ask the exec chef to help you come up with phrase ideas. Maybe there's someone else on the staff who can help. The GM? At my club, if I were faced with this dilemma, those are the two people I would go to first. Helps build the relationship and rapport, involves them in your thinking, gets them involved in knowing what's selling and what doesn't. There are also people on various committees that I might call on if I still needed help. Even the servers (well, maybe one or two of them) might be able to help - after all, they are the ones who will be describing the dessert to the customers if assistance is asked for?

-) Does the audience know what a dacquoise is? The suggestion to have replacement phrases is a good idea for elements that may not be well known by the average customer.

-) I like having a set of categories and one or two selections within the categories. Having a standard description for the category would help - one or two good adjectives is all you need.

-) Cookbooks may be good sources for names, but probably not descriptions. How did the come up with the name Red Velvet cake, anyway. Look at other menus for suggestions for wordings. There are lots of menus online it seems to me that you can look to for inspiration.

-) Take a creative writing course specifically for people looking to be food writers. The Learning Annex offers these here in NYC. A local community college might have something along this line, too.

-) Do you have a local paper? "Bribe" a reporter/writer with free dessert samples to have them help you with the descriptions. Maybe that would lead to press coverage.

:Clay

[akwa]

We have had success with recent change to dessert menu:

by splitting into traditional and experimental.

Under experimental there is much more freedom for names:

Current include:

St. Barth's May 2001

Trifle of Sauternes

Spontaneous

I think sometimes its a branding issue, and contact with media, not to mention in house public relations with the staff should be helpful.

Good luck

[messingeton]

I enjoy the idea of abstract labels on dessert menus but there’s a very specific place for it.

“Study in ____” is great because encourages dialogue between you (the chef) and the front of the house; then between the front of the house and the guests. In a casual restaurant, most customers don’t want their server to take up a chunk of their time talking about dishes and how they’re prepared and how it’s different from yesterday and how the chef likes the idea of fluidity in menu design and…and...and... by then, most are yawning and just want a damn piece of cake.

But then again, maybe going that route can change the way casual diners think about food?

With all that said, my taste leans towards minimal but not esoteric. Name the components, leave out the verbs. For example:

Souffle'

A frozen vanilla bean souffle' served on caramel and chocolate sauces. Roasted salted pecans and cookie tuile accompany.

Would just look like this on the menu:

Vanilla Bean Souffle

Caramel and chocolate sauce, roasted pecans.

I’d even leave out the tuile part. Half of the diners are already going to assume there’s a garnish; leave the other half to be pleasantly surprised.

In the end, it also needs to be in sync with the rest of the menu. It's great that the chef was open to your idea, but if he thought you were nuts and would never use a similar label on the rest of his menu, chances are the diners won't get it. The dessert course should flow naturally from the main.

[Wendy DeBord]

Would just look like this on the menu:

Vanilla Bean Souffle

Caramel and chocolate sauce, roasted pecans.

Except that doesn't tell them it's a frozen souffle and you can't omit that fact.

Honestly it's about trying a dessert or not, what words sell it. Rarely does the description really match the reality. If you take a black forest cake, it's going to be different tasting from each and every person who makes it. Add to that the people who are making it in a non-classical way and you've got 2 zillion possible tastes for that item.

One day I make a classic black forest, months later I make a different version, then later I make another version and so on. How much do you bother to tell your diner? A certain percentage will be expecting exactly the version that they tasted.

How come this doesn't taste like the last time I ordered it? The pastry chef screwed up...........or should you never revisit a dessert you've already established?

[Rachel Perlow]

Well it shouldn't have the same name at least. If you name it the same, they will think it is supposed to be the same. Add another word to the title. If you made "Black Forest Cake" last month and you are making a different version this month, add the name of the cookbook author to the title or something to make it different, i.e. "Rose Levy Berenbaum's Black Forest Cake."

[Carrot Top]

If the idea of looking outwards toward the audience is not giving the creative impetus you are looking for in this 'name game'...and if you do not want to take the time of the FOH people for whatever reason...it might work to look inwards.

Your pastries are your creations (even if they are adaptations). You have seen them, felt them, played with them, thought about them. Each one will have a different 'core idea', a specific feeling, to you, if you focus in on it...even variations on a Black Forest Cake will have different nuances.

If the external wording is not coming, think about what the particular and personal qualities are of each piece.

This may seem silly. Simple words like 'soft and creamy', 'intense and fruity' and those sorts of words will probably come to mind first and naturally they sound sort of...well...both repetitive dull and ridiculous, like packaged goods.

Write them down anyway, as you focus on what the thing really IS, to you.

Then go to the thesaurus and find words that can subsitute for what you originally came up with. Thesauses are little worlds of wonder for words.

Just an idea, anyway.

[origamicrane]

I would go for simple as it saves the server having to run into the kitchen and asking the chef what all the desserts are.

but having said that, I do plan to open a small chain of restaurants called

" whatever" ,

"i don't mind",

"dunno",

and

"anything will do"

as whenever i ask someone what they want to eat they will reply with one of the above :)

so how about naming the desserts like below

remember desserts are the fun part of the meal

humour is a good sell.

"the white one with the shaved chocolate on top"

"the one that looks like a big chunk of chocolate"

"something sweet and creamy and loaded with calories"

"not sex but almost"

"what is life, without chocolate"

"go on you deserve it"

"if you share this you can pretend you didn't have dessert!"

"the cake you wished your momma could make when you were a kid".

"one step closer to a coronary"

"scooby doo dessert tower"

"homer Doh! nuts and waffle skyscraper"

"trust me its low fat!"

"start the diet tomorrow"

"F%$K Atkins!"

(please note if you use any of the names above for your desserts. I want it to be attributed to me )

[anncashion]

I feel like I've hit a brick wall when it comes to giving a name or title to a dessert. I have 18 new desserts a month to title (no constant dessert menu, changes weekly)and I just can't find the words anymore. Both a title and a new breif description. Last week in frustration I desided to title something "study in_________", my poor chef thought I was nuts at first....but he agreed to it in the end. I can't think of any other way to label..............so I'm hoping one of you have had a similar problem and have some advice on how to title and or write fresh descriptions year in and year out?

It's rare that I make something the same exact way twice. Actaully I only do that on request and thats a problem because I don't recall a week or two later exactly what I did.

Example;

This week I might do a- 1. peanut butter cake with a layer of semi sweet mousse, layer of peanut butter ganche, frost with whipped cream.

Next time I approach this combination I do- 2. chocolate sable, layer of flourless chocolate cake, layer of peanut butter mousse, layer of whip cream and salted roasted peanuts.

Then another time I might do- 3. a chocolate cake, layer of peanut butter, layer of chocolate cheesecake, repeat layers and garnish.

They are all very similar yet they need different titles on the menu so the client who may or may not have tried and like version no. 1 knows this version will be different. I am somewhat lucky in that on weekends they display desserts to aid in the description. This has become a really tedious chore and I've lost my ability to 'want to' describe in writing my desserts. I don't want to become a factory and produce the same items each time.....I want to play with combos.....but I don't want to confuse or under describe an item either. SOOOOOooo thats where I came up with "study of________" or 'study in______" .........so even if your not a pc and you buy desserts what can I do to title a dessert and not confuse you? How would you react to desserts titled "study in_______"? Anyone have something fresh to help me think and respark my titleing?

←

I attended a series of winemaker dinners in the Caribbean this summer. One of the courses done by Michel Rostaing was a study in tomatoes, but he called it "Operation Tomate!!!" Says the same thing, but with a sense of humor.

[Steve Klc]

Wendy--how does your chef describe his dishes? I think you should flow from whatever example he or she sets...and I agree with Ann if a chef is going to employ some humor or wit in naming of savory dishes on the menu, that opens the door for the pastry chef as well. Jason, as far as listing "desserts by primary flavors" that's how Albert Adria did his dessert menus, which we Westerners, Michael included, first heard about back in 1998 or 1999, when "los postres de el bulli" was first released. That's just another example of how the Spanish have shown us that we can be free, much freer than previous conventions. Why not just call a dessert by its primary flavors, say "choco-coco-curry?" Before Albert, no one did a menu that way. That said, that wouldn't work for just any audience, and my guess is it wouldn't work for your current audiences.

I often call desserts by their simple, traditional, expected names--strawberry sundae, lemon meringue pie, rice pudding--and then give them something deconstructed, re-constructed, re-interpreted--far from what they expect formwise but all over it flavor-wise. Also, if you're doing something you've done before for the same audience, or a captive audience like a country club, so say that Black Forest cake, but doing it differently, why not say Black Forest Cake "a new way" or "another way?" Again, it has to fit your work, your chef and your personality.

My wife Colleen just suggested in my ear, as she watches me type this, why not name desserts by colors--red, white--Pierre Herme is fond of assigning colors to his dessert "collections" which he releases seasonally. It's pretentious when he does it but it might be fun in the right former artist's hands like yourself.

[Redsugar]

“The diners ponder, stutter, variously flaunting their ignorance or their pretensions to knowledge.” ~ M.F.K. Fisher: D is for Dining Out

According to Funk & Wagnalls, a menu is “a bill of fare; and, by extension, the list of dishes included in it.” But, in reality, it is much more. For the restaurateur, the menu is an advertising device – a means of presenting, in the best possible light, the items he is selling. It is also an opportunity for the chef/restaurateur to make a literary statement about his particular philosophy of cooking & dining. The menu helps to establish the ambience of the dining room and prepare the clientele for the gustatory experience that will ensue.

Any type of menu is subject to the idiosyncracies & limitations of the English language. Some menu terms have been so misused in many instances that they have nearly lost their connotative significance: Classic, Special, Trilogy, Medley, Old-Fashioned, Exotic, and so forth. For good or ill, the curiosities of the menu lexicon will remain with us.

A frequently revised menu – regardless of its style – benefits both the customer and the restaurateur: The customer ought to receive a menu composed in allegiance with honesty, imagination, and sensible variety. The chef especially gains from an evolving menu because (1) it provides a first impression of his creativity, of the current personality of his oeuvre, and (2) it helps to stave off his worst enemy – boredom. (Remember Jasper White’s warning that any kitchen can become something of a prison because of the grinding repetition necessitated by preparing best-sellers day after day.)

I prefer menus that are wonderful *understatements as opposed to hyperbolic nonsense. Printed menus should be plain guides to the chef/restaurateur’s most accessible persona. Accordingly, we are astutely advised that “to enjoy dining out to its fullest, one must be able to read & understand restaurant menus…, for only then is one able to order a meal with confidence.” (Norman Odya Krohn, Menu Mystique, p. viii). I think that humorous menus are rarely utilized because the levity can easily misfire (or even offend in these pc times.) And what might be the upshot of the perception that the staff may be more frivolous than professional? Dessert circus, indeed! Of course, it all depends on the restaurant’s purpose and the breed of clientele for which it exists. A true sense of appropriateness must be cultivated at all times.

In sum, I believe that the quintessential experience of mealtime should be based on a paraphrase of Michel Guérard’s theory of cuisine minceur: You should be able to eat real food, drink a little wine, refresh your system, and take some pleasure from the normally dreary process of living. Exactement!

*I have a copy of the Union Square Cafe menu from September 1996; the dessert descriptions are admirably concise & devoid of pretentiousness: Pineapple Crème Brûlée with coconut macaroons; Greenmarket Apple Streusel Pie with lemon ice cream; Panna Cotta with port-poached pears & half-moon cookies; USC’s Warm Banana Tart with honey-vanilla ice cream & macadamia nut brittle; Chocolatey-Chocolate Cake with caramel mascarpone & chocolate truffle swizzles; USC’s Cookies, Biscotti, Brittle & Fudge; Warm Maple Pudding with buttermilk ice cream. And everything listed is so tempting that "chocolatey" is most welcome. As Voltaire noted, "the superflous is a most necessary thing."

[helenjp]

oreo crumb chocolate torte - caramel and chocolate sauces, pouring cream

vanilla bean souffle - roasted strawberries

Writing is my business (not that I let it show in my posts...heh heh).

I think Reesek has an approach that would inform and intrigue your diners and also work for you - a very simple, clearcut description with ONE special detail!

That will give you needed practice in menu-writing if you want to expand your descriptions later, but I think the Reesek touch is just what you want.

(Ever been put off ordering an item because you couldn't bring yourself to utter the ridiculous name out loud? )