The Baker's Kitchen

[JennotJenn]

Man, I hope this hasn't been covered before. If so, chastize me and merge the subject, s'il vous plait.

My father, a serious amateur cabinetmaker, is helping me and my husband build new cabinets for our small kitchen. He is concerned with providing for my baking needs in both cabinetry and tools, even offering to pay the difference between a BlueStar range with a non-convection oven and one with a convection oven. It's unlike him to offer up such a large sum of money. I think it's because he understands the correlation between my baking and his woodworking. He understands my desire to aquire the best tools I can afford, and to have the most effective use of space, even in a small area, something important to cooks/bakers and craftsmen alike. He also understands that I'm on a budget cabinetwise, since the bulk of our budget is going towards equipment. Luckily, his work is impressive, he'll do it in exchange for a few meals and a chance to spend time with me, and he knows people from whom he can get quality materials inexpensively. I totally have the best dad. He's so getting a Father's Day present this year (we're not big on exchanging real gifts...).

So, long story short, my job is to come up with the design. I know I want a shorter countertop so I can work my doughs more easily (I'm short, so this is especially important). However, I have no idea what else I want or need. Well, it's more like I have ideas, but don't know how to implement them.

First and foremost, I do not have a pantry, and there is no room to build one without knocking out part of a load bearing plaster wall. No thanks.

My biggest want is that I would like an area for flour storage. I have about a dozen types of flour, but about 3/4 of them go in cold storage, so I really only need cabinet space for all-purpose and bread flour. Does anyone have plastic lined pull out (or tip forward, if that makes sense) bins for their flour? If so, what do you think of them? A good idea or a PITA? Right now I keep my flour in a big Tupperware container, which works ok, but it takes up a bunch of room, and worse, buries the rest of the items in my cabinets.

Also, I need spice/leavening/thickener storage. I have too damn many spices and probably need to pare down some, but even then, I need major storage. Do you prefer a deep drawer? Built in spice racks? Something else that's so fantastic that I haven't thought of it yet?

I need a way of storing baking sheets, sheet pans and cake pans. Has anyone found any system that really works?

Other than that, I'm clueless. What do you have in your work area that makes baking a joy? What do you wish you had? What do you wish you hadn't spent the time/money/energy on?

Edited June 1, 2004 by JennotJenn (log)

[Wendy DeBord]

Wow, your a lucky person.

I bake professionally and have collected alot of pans and various equipment over the years. Honestly I can't begin to think of how I could make individual spaces to contain all this.....because it's always growing. I have a couple of metal shelfs in my basement where I store most of my toys. The smaller items I put in clear plastic bins, so I can see them easily.

If I was in your shoes and got to design things I'd like everything to be adjustable. Large spaces that could be broken down into smaller spaces with bins I could see clearly into with-out opening them. I wouldn't have any small spaces. I'd want to have a rack for spice or small gadgets in my larger cabinet that also was adjustable.

Small permenantly buildt spaces are a pain to clean. I wouldn't like flour bins....I'd rather have a tupperware like container I could move around with me for convience.

I'd spend my money on surfaces that were indistructable......I sooooo long for a granite or marble counter tops (but I don't know how practical they are in heavy use). I work daily on stainless steel and I love how you can't burn it and it cleans up so easily.

Adjustable spaces, large uncluttered counter surfaces and easy to clean materials are the most important design considerations for me.

[FWED]

I second the recommendation for large uncluttered counter surfaces and adjustable spaces. I would also recommend that if you are going to have under counter cabinets please consider drawers in them that pull out instead of shelves whether fixed or adjustable. It makes things much easier to find and get at especially if the cabinets are deep. Corner cabinets should have lazy susan adjustable turntables. If you have a place for cabinets that are more shallow and not in direct view of other parts of the house I would recommend not putting doors on them. I had this done on the non view side of a small island in the middle of my kitchen and I found it very easy to store platters, bowls and small utensils and to be able to see everything at a glance(the adjustable shelves were only 12 inches deep). I keep my spices in a drawer and I transfer the bulk spices that I get locally or from Penzey's into glass jars of the correct height and place a label on the lid. There is no wasted space and I can look down at them easily. Take your time and build in as much flexibility as possible. I have found that over time my baking and cooking interests change and evolve and that due to the flexibility of my kitchen it can change and evolve also. Hope these ideas help.

[mnebergall]

He is concerned with providing for my baking needs in both cabinetry and tools, even offering to pay the difference between a BlueStar range with a non-convection oven and one with a convection oven.

Are there Bluestar ranges w/o a convection oven? According to their website, they all have a conection fan system. Is their website wrong (it would not surprise me if it was wrong)?

[JennotJenn]

He is concerned with providing for my baking needs in both cabinetry and tools, even offering to pay the difference between a BlueStar range with a non-convection oven and one with a convection oven.

Are there Bluestar ranges w/o a convection oven? According to their website, they all have a conection fan system. Is their website wrong (it would not surprise me if it was wrong)?

I think the one I'm looking at, the cheapest one ($2500), is sans convection and sans window in door. The next step up in a 30" has both and is @$3000. I'm pretty sure all but the cheapest one are convection.

Editing to say that I just checked Distinctive Appliances, which lists the model I'm looking at as non-convection.

Edited June 1, 2004 by JennotJenn (log)

[mnebergall]

As near as I can tell from their website, the 30" RCS model has no window, no high-power burner and no simmer burner, but does have a convection oven.

[JennotJenn]

The kitchen itself is quite small (16x9, including dine-in area), so you guys are dead on about needing to maximize counter space where possible. I use my stand mixer on a near-daily basis, but it does take up valuable counter space. What about those contraptions that raise and lower the mixer into a cabinet? Anyone know what I'm talking about, or where I can get a description of one to show my dad? If he can see it, he can make it. No joke.

I'm already all about a lazy susan.

He asked me if I wanted adjustable shelving. Based on comments so far, I think I'm going to tell him yes on upper cabinets, which will probably be food storage (no chance for a pantry, but maybe I can go w/some shallow open shelving along one of the walls for spices...the mother of all spice racks!), but no on bottom cabinets, which will hold sheet pans, etc. He knows I want pullouts in those cabinets anyway, and has suggested I spring a couple of extra bucks per cabinet for fully extendable hardware, something he insists will be worth the extra money.

[JennotJenn]

As near as I can tell from their website, the 30" RCS model has no window, no high-power burner and no simmer burner, but does have a convection oven.

I'm going to have to make some phone calls. Depending on what site you go to, it lists different things. The only thing I could find that they agreed on was that it does have the simmer burner, but no high powered one. Some sites list it as non-convection, but their own site lists it as convection.

I may pitch in the extra $500. I sorta want the high powered burner anyway.

[Enzian]

My mom is a kitchen designer! Heh. While I can't offer her services, I can impart a few design elements I've seen:

A rack made of vertical dowels for baking sheets. Stored vertically.

Large pantry is ubar l33t.

The stove, fridge and sink should for a triangle, and each "node" should be no more than 3 paces from the other two. Roughly speaking, or course, I've seen many exceptions to that rule.

When you stand at the sink, you should have the trash on your left and the dishwasher on your right.

The first element to place should be the sink. Everything else goes around that. Be creative.

Uh. One thing I've heard her say is that she envisions every accesory in a functional kitchen and then plans a space near where it will be used. Baking sheets would go by the stove, with a drawer for utensils, pot holders/dish towels, etc.

Hope I've sparked some thought. If you're near the South Shore of Massachusetts, lemme know. She's been flown around the world to design kitchens for People Who Know, yet she can work within most budgets, too.

Good luck! Have tons of fun!

[Anna N]

Although a pantry in the kitchen is the ideal, I manage with two pantries in my basement. At present they are nothing more than cheapo bookcases surrounded by shower curtains (for doors!) but eventually I intend to go for two pantry cabinets down there. My kitchen cabinet space is so limited that there is only room for everyday dishes, my most-used pots and pans and salt and pepper! All my food is stored in the pantries downstairs - it makes for some serious mise en place! All my small appliances (coffee grinders, hand-mixer, stick blender, etc.) are stored in a deep but narrow drawer in the kitchen. Larger appliances, blender, food-processor and such are stored in the pantries. My newly-acquired Kitchenaid sits on my limited counter space as it is simply too heavy to move it up and down the stairs. My potatoes and onions are stored in a roll-about stack of baskets draped with a heavy rug to keep them reasonably dark, also in the basement.

I rescued a small stereo cabinet with glass doors that just fits at the end of the breakfast bar and serves to hold my favourite cookbooks and my bread machine.

None of these ideas may serve you but they might spark other ideas.

[Anna N]

The kitchen itself is quite small (16x9, including dine-in area), so you guys are dead on about needing to maximize counter space where possible. I use my stand mixer on a near-daily basis, but it does take up valuable counter space. What about those contraptions that raise and lower the mixer into a cabinet? Anyone know what I'm talking about, or where I can get a description of one to show my dad? If he can see it, he can make it. No joke...

Is this what you are referring to?

Lee Valley Tools lifting shelving

[CompassRose]

Off-topic -- I love how in these decadent days a 16x9 kitchen is referred to as "small"!!

The kitchen of my century house (which desperately needs a redo) is a bare 12x12. And it is by no means the smallest I have had, either.

[JennotJenn]

Off-topic -- I love how in these decadent days a 16x9 kitchen is referred to as "small"!!

The kitchen of my century house (which desperately needs a redo) is a bare 12x12. And it is by no means the smallest I have had, either.

It's only small because 6'x9' of it is taken up by the eat in, and there's no other dining area. So, when it comes down to it, I have a 10'x9' kitchen.

[JennotJenn]

The kitchen itself is quite small (16x9, including dine-in area), so you guys are dead on about needing to maximize counter space where possible. I use my stand mixer on a near-daily basis, but it does take up valuable counter space. What about those contraptions that raise and lower the mixer into a cabinet? Anyone know what I'm talking about, or where I can get a description of one to show my dad? If he can see it, he can make it. No joke...

Is this what you are referring to?

Lee Valley Tools lifting shelving

Yes! That links to the wrong item, but I found the lift anyway. That's exactly what I'm looking for! I'll show it to him and see if he can find it for a better price, but that's still fairly reasonable, and it would save valuable counter spacce.

[Mottmott]

It would help to give advice if you could give us a floor plan.

Depending on the configuration of your room, one thing that might help would be to cover one wall with relatively shallow floor to ceiling cabinets (like bookcases with doors). In this case, you could even have shelves on one or more of the doors as a spice shelf. - In my house I was able to fit in an old (salvaged & refinished) built-in pantry which gives me slightly deeper storage ont the bottom or that's what I would have done to optimize storage.

As someone above suggested, I have an open bookcase at the end of a peninsula that is very useful. I was also able to put a floor to ceiling bookcase in a 4' wide niche formed between an outside wall and a chimney that jutted out into the room. Over the years at various times I have used them to store books, equipment, food.

As my cabinets are oak, I used oak stair treads which have a bullnose finish on one side for the shelves there and in the bookcase at the end of the peninsula. I find the shelves very flexible. They're very straight wood and require little finishing so were easy to use. I imagine they're available in other woods, too.

[FWED]

I like the idea of the appliance lift brackets but am concerned about their load capacity The info on the link says a load capacity of 17.5 pounds. My old Kitchen Aid model 45 weighs in at 20 pounds and I am not sure what the new bigger machines weigh. Another aspect is can the machine be left on the lift when operating or does it have to be moved onto the counter and the shelf stowed away. That might make the shelf more effort than its worth. I'm also not sure my machine would be secure when it is kneeding dough on that shelf. I would hate to see the machine walk off the edge onto the floor. That would not be a good day. I don't mean to discourage you but these are things that can be answered before you start building and end up with something that isn't quite workable.

[JennotJenn]

It's an L configuration, with cabinets along the short back wall (about 7', once you factor in the door), and the long side wall (about 10' of space). There's a 5' (or so) peninsula int he middle of the room.

One of the walls would be good for shallow shelving, and I'm giving that consideration, but for spices I think I may have found another solution:

Rev-a-shelf

I would put in in an upper cabinet above my baking area, and perhaps have a larger one (or a lazy susan) in the base cabinet for flour, sugar, etc. I think it would really help maximize the space.

The hardware isn't cheap, but I'll pay out of my own pocket as opposed to from the general fund if I have to...those just look very useful.