Do you like LUCAI(SHANDONG FOODS)?

[Gary Soup]

But I have a copy of a Chinese food encyclopedia that I bought in Beijing --- all in characters. With this talk about jianbing, I think I will sit down and do a translation. (or maybe scan it to altavista??)

Scanning it won't work with translators. It has to be encoded text.

[Yuki]

You probably still need to edit the translations after putting it through Alta Vista.

I am wondering how many people on this board can read Chinese? Just curious....

[Gary Soup]

I am wondering how many people on this board can read Chinese? Just curious....

Not me, except for some basic Chinese restaurant menu survival skills. I use an add-in called TranStar which will translate a whole webpage on the fly from Chinese to English or vice versa. Not really any more intelligible than Alta Vista or Babel Fish, but it saves a lot of cutting and pasting.

I understand enough Shanghainese to keep my wife from talking about me in my presence.

[Gary Soup]

I used to work for a trading company in Beijing, but now I live in France.  What do you trade?  I used to trade nonferrous metals.

I just noticed this post. Coincidentally, my wife used to work as an accountant for the Shanghai Metal Exchange.

[chengb02]

I am wondering how many people on this board can read Chinese? Just curious....

I'm able to read and speak Chinese, my problem is more with writing it (computers are both a gift and a curse!).

[bleudauvergne]

I learned to speak and read it and when in China that was when I learned the most. These days I can get the gist of most simple things but don't ask me to analyze literature or philosophy! My skills have really suffered since coming to france and going through the language learning process here.

Gary - Pretty much all of my work was with the London Metal Exchange through my Swiss head office although I was involved in a number of physical trades out of Shanghai, I was there a few times a year.

So William! Can you get us a jianbing recipe from your mother?

I also looked through all my Chinese cookbooks and did not find a recipe.

Edited May 19, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[Pan]

Before and during a ~1-month trip to China (well, including Hong Kong, which was still a British colony in 1987), I learned about 100 characters, mostly numbers and really important words like "nu ren" and "nan ren."

I had survival-level Chinese, e.g. "Wo yao sige zhege" (while pointing to dumplings).

[william huang]

Was that the Goubouli Baozi joint in Tianjin? Does TJ food count as Shandong?

J

Of course not!! Though Tianjin near Shandong.

I am deeply regret that when I go to Tianjin have not ate the Goubuli Baozi

[william huang]

So William! Can you get us a jianbing recipe from your mother?

I also looked through all my Chinese cookbooks and did not find a recipe.

I guess my mom donnot know it clearly.But I look the recipe of Jianbing on Mayday at Zibo which is a city of Shandong.

Firstly, you should have a large flat pan.

Secondly you should have powder of corn or other powder of roughage such as broomcorn powder.

And then put some water , I guess, and lay open the paste thin on the flat pan.

If you have cofidence at Chinese you can look thatrecipe of Jianbing

[bleudauvergne]

Wow! Those jianbing are HUGE! I don't have a pan as big as the one in the photo, and I do not have a hat like that. Do we need to wear that kind of hat if we make jianbing? One thing that is interesting is that it says in order to keep it from sticking to the pan, they use a cloth with oil to wipe down the hot pan. This is useful information.

But how can this be possible, William, that your mother does not know? The article says that in addition to needlework, if a woman cannot make jianbing, she will never be married! Aiya! Ah but your father married a city girl, from Beijing. She probably has a whole list of wonderful Beijing foods she makes at home. I loved the food there.

I am going to try it, but my biggest flat pan is not that big.

Edited May 19, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[jo-mel]

You probably still need to edit the translations after putting it through Alta Vista.

I am wondering how many people on this board can read Chinese? Just curious....

I studied the language in the 80s and 90s, but I have to overlearn to retain, so I usually rely on my dictionaries. I can get the gist because of the radicals and phonetics. (I LOVE the language!!!!)

I had a converter on my old computer, but somehow it didn't transfer to this one. I really should look into it.

The recipe in that tome, I bought, will take a while, but now that it is on my mind, I want to get at it.

The recipe for the batter from that Jian Bing link uses: 1 part soy flour to

2 parts white flour and water. The ones I had in Beijing just added egg, scallions and a liquid hot sauce.

[chengb02]

Was that the Goubouli Baozi joint in Tianjin? Does TJ food count as Shandong?

J

Despite their proximity, Tianjin doesn't count as a part of Shandong province, food wise. Probably because of its history and being a port city, Tianjin has a very different history from the rest of the area (much like Shanghai is a bit different from Anhui/Jiangsu, etc.). Goubuli baozi can be had in many of the big cities in China (and in the US as well), but their best, of course, in Tianjin.

[kangarool]

To Kangarool who is having trouble turning out good jiaozi - here's a thread that covers a great deal about many facets of jiaozi making - click!

I hope you solve your jiaozi problem soon!

L

Solve my jiaozi problems SOON? After the subatomic-particle-physics level that Project suggests??

Seriously though, thanks for the link to that topic, I hadn't come across it before. It's good fun, and there really is some hugely helpful advice and tips in there.

I suppose the main question I'm left with is, how different are "Shandong jiaozi" compared with any others? I'm guessing that boiled or potsticker dumplings I've had in restaurants in New York are Cantonese style (I say that only because I'm presuming most basic dishes offered at "everyday" chinese restaurants in NY are Cantonese based - could be completely off base there), so I'm wondering if there's a difference in key ingredients or preparation with Shandong style.

My knowledge about regional differences in Chinese cuisine is extremely limited — probably apparent to most on this board —, so am just curious if there's a new taste treat out there waiting for me to discover!

PS I think my post is still relatively on topic, but am happy to move to the Steamed Dumpling topic if it's more relevant there.

[bleudauvergne]

I suppose the main question I'm left with is, how different are "Shandong jiaozi" compared with any others? I'm guessing that boiled or potsticker dumplings I've had in restaurants in New York are Cantonese style (I say that only because I'm presuming most basic dishes offered at "everyday" chinese restaurants in NY are Cantonese based - could be completely off base there), so I'm wondering if there's a difference in key ingredients or preparation with Shandong style.

Maybe William can tell us. Hey William, can you tell us something about Shandong jiaozi?

[herbacidal]

I suppose the main question I'm left with is, how different are "Shandong jiaozi" compared with any others? I'm guessing that boiled or potsticker dumplings I've had in restaurants in New York are Cantonese style (I say that only because I'm presuming most basic dishes offered at "everyday" chinese restaurants in NY are Cantonese based - could be completely off base there), so I'm wondering if there's a difference in key ingredients or preparation with Shandong style.

My knowledge about regional differences in Chinese cuisine is extremely limited — probably apparent to most on this board —, so am just curious if there's a new taste treat out there waiting for me to discover!

PS I think my post is still relatively on topic, but am happy to move to the Steamed Dumpling topic if it's more relevant there.

You're right that a predominant portion of the Chinese cuisine in most people's experience is likely to be Cantonese, as greater numbers of overseas Chinese are Cantonese than from any other province (Cantonese refers to those from Guangdong province).

This is slowly changing, as more people emigrate from Shanghai, Sichuan, Beijing, Taiwan, etc.

For instance, up until 10-14 years ago, the dominant Chinese dialect in Philly Chinatown was Cantonese. Since then, Fukienese and Mandarin have emerged,

not to mention Vietnamese, and while Cantonese is still probably the most probable default language, it's far from dominant. I'd say about 50%.

BTW, Cantonese dumplings aren't boiled, not to my knowledge.

They normally would be steamed or fried.

The most traditional filling for Cantonese would be pork.

[william huang]

I suppose the main question I'm left with is, how different are "Shandong jiaozi" compared with any others? I'm guessing that boiled or potsticker dumplings I've had in restaurants in New York are Cantonese style (I say that only because I'm presuming most basic dishes offered at "everyday" chinese restaurants in NY are Cantonese based - could be completely off base there), so I'm wondering if there's a difference in key ingredients or preparation with Shandong style.

Maybe William can tell us. Hey William, can you tell us something about Shandong jiaozi?

It's hard to me that what is the difference Shandong jiaozi between other provinces. Because I have not ate any other province jiaozi.

I think the seafood's jiaozi maybe Qingdao style.

well, I'll back to ask others and then give you more reply.

[william huang]

Well,I have asked my ralative,they said that the Shandong style Jiaozi are the best than other places. At least better than south area of my nation.

The best important factor of Jiaozi is the stuffing of Jiaozi.

You can make the stuffing you like. I think the best taste not others said good,should be you like it.

[Pan]

Of course everything is a matter of taste - what you like, what I like, what other people like. What are your favorite jiaozi fillings?

[bleudauvergne]

Yes, William, do share with us what your favorite stuffing is.

[tanspace]

Ask any Chinese what Shandong food is famous, and you'll likely get the answers: Man Tou (steamed buns), Bao Zi, (steamed buns with filling), and Shui Jiao (water boiled dumplings), right off the top of their heads.

Of course, as one of the four original cuisines (Beijing/Shandong, Sichuan, Cantonese, and Shanghai), there are lots more than the above. But for most part, Shandong or northern cuisine is famous for the wheat based, noodle based dishes.

The most common style of filling for JiaoZi from Shandong is either Bai Cai (Chinese cabbage) with pork, or Jiu Cai (Chinese chives) with pork. Other viariations include fish, shrimp, or sea cucumber based fillings.

One dish William mentioned, which is Sugar and Vinegar Pork is also one of the original "sweet and sour" type dishes. And it tastes different than the Cantonese version served in middle America.

Most of these dishes can be found in America in "Korean-Chinese" restaurants. These restaurants are mostly owned and operated by Shandongese people, who had previously migrated to Korea (and popularized Chinese food in Korea) and eventually to America. Just as in the old days when Chinese food in America meant the variety from Cantonese restaurants, Chinese food in Korea meant the variety from Shandong restaurants.

-t

[Pan]

I've never seen a Korean-Chinese restaurant in New York.

But could you please elaborate on the "four original cuisines"? Glad to have you aboard.

[jo-mel]

William -- I'm curious. What is the source and meaning of the word "LU" for Shangdong? The meaning I get is less than desirable! For Lucai --- it would be 'crude food'??

Anyone else have an answer?

[Gary Soup]

I've never seen a Korean-Chinese restaurant in New York.

But could you please elaborate on the "four original cuisines"? Glad to have you aboard.

It's really debatable how many Chinese cusines there are. Tanspace's 4 are often subdivided.

Here's a good rundown on Chinese cuisines from a semi-official source:

Chinese Imperial Cuisines

Note that Jiangsu-Zhejiang encompasses what's usually called Shanghainese.

I'm sure some would argue that Chaozhou cuisine deserves a separate classification, and of course there are distinctive cuisines in the "Wild West" (e.g. Xinjiang and Tibet) but I guess these aren't considered "Imperial."

[Gary Soup]

William -- I'm curious. What is the source and meaning of the word "LU"  for Shangdong?  The meaning I get is less than desirable!   For Lucai --- it would be 'crude food'??

Anyone else have an answer?

My office's resident expert tells me that "Lu" is an alternate name for Shandong (like "Hu" for Shangai) and that it derives from one of the names for Confucius, who was born in the state of Lu.

[Edited for clarity]

Edited June 2, 2004 by Gary Soup (log)

[tanspace]

I've never seen a Korean-Chinese restaurant in New York.

But could you please elaborate on the "four original cuisines"? Glad to have you aboard.

I'm sure there are tons of Korean-Chinese restaurants in NY, since there's both a large Korean population as well as a large Chinese from Korea population.

The key is these restaurants don't put up a big neon "Korean-Chinese" sign in front of the restaurant like "Cantonese" or "Szechwan". If anything, more likely they'll proclaim to be "Mandarin" first and maybe "Sichuan" as well.

The best way to find these is look for Chinese restaurants in the Koreantown neighborhood. Or ask any Korean friend you know where to get Jjajangmyeon or Jjampong, and they should be able to tell you. Or if you have no Korean friends, then at the END of a meal at a Korean restaurant, ask the waitress or anyone if they know where to find the above dishes, and hopefully they will tell you.

-t