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marlena spieler

food safety

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Yes, mayo with anything---keep that stuff COLD... the worst real live food poison I have experienced was from a Mayo-seafood salad in Vegas. I spent two days in hospital while everyone else partied...It's getting on picnic time, so keep that tater salad on ice!! Bring a bigger bowl, and keep the salads cold-please!

Edit to add, a bigger bowl with ice in it, and the salad embedded in that! DUH...

You sure the mayo got you? Sure it wasn't the actual seafood involved? Mayo gets a bad rap at times.

Interesting Stuff Here On Mayo

and:

More....

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Butchers have used end grain wooden chopping boards since time immemorial. The molecular structure of the wood seems to interact with bacteria in such a way as to kill them within a short time.

I agree with John Whiting in principle - there's some great work done by Prof. Dean O. Cliver that suggests the natural enzymes in wood knock out the bugs and the absorbent nature of wood deprives the bugs of the moisture they need to survive. So wood is good but this natural "inhibition" needs time to work - it is NOT instantaneous by any means! (Plastic has no such properties - so the onus there is on cleaning and sanitizing).

And I think it was celebrity chef Gary Rhodes who once said "It doesn't matter how expensive a dish is, or how fabulous it looks, if it hasn't been prepared safely, it's worthless..."

The problem starts when the same board is used to prepare a series of different foods. Washing boards between each type of food - particularly moving from raw to cooked foods - does not always remove the bugs - so it is more convenient and generally safer to use separate boards. The foodservice industry learned this lesson a long time ago, using color-coded boards.

For home use, I think the Identibord system of color-coded wood boards makes a real neat solution - their site is at Identibord

Color-coded boards are not for everyone - but many believe a real advantage is that, when used, they help to make people THINK about what they are doing foodsafety-wise.....and that can't be bad.

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Well, I think it was the mayo, because everyone else had the same cocktail but with red sauce on theirs. I picked the aolli sauce because it was more lemony! So we all figured it was that. Dunno for sure, but I was a sick puppy.

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Someone may have chopped garlic for the aioli on a board where someone just prepared raw fish or chicken. Hard to tell exactly what may have happened there. Could have been the garlic, too. I think all of us have been struck down with a "tummy flu" that was indeed food poisoning.

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Well, I think it was the mayo, because everyone else had the same cocktail but with red sauce on theirs. I picked the aolli sauce because it was more lemony! So we all figured it was that. Dunno for sure, but I was a sick puppy.

Chopped fresh garlic in oil can produce some very nasty anaerobic bacteria - particularly if it's sitting around at room temperature for a while (as it's likely to do at a buffet). So that would be a possible culprit. I never make anything which involves fresh chopped garlic in oil unless I'm going to use it almost immediately (and if I make it in the morning for dinner that night - I keep it in the refrigerator).

I am pretty safety conscious. But not a fanatic. Always do hot things hot/cold things cold. Avoid buffets and other eating situations where food sits at room temperature for long periods of time (you couldn't get me on a cruise for anything).

Always thoroughly wash and dry cutting boards/knives before using them again for different things (although I don't worry at all about what kinds of boards they are). Wash my hands with soap and hot water after I fix X and move on to Y. Etc. I gamble because I eat rare meat - but I do that almost always at home where I know how the food has been handled.

I always thought this was a matter of common sense until I saw my husband using a board he had just used for raw chicken to cut up some veggies. Needless to say - the veggies wound up in the garbage. Robyn

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I always thought this was a matter of common sense until I saw my husband using a board he had just used for raw chicken to cut up some veggies.  Needless to say - the veggies wound up in the garbage.  Robyn

What about the husband? :laugh:


John Whiting, London

Whitings Writings

Top Google/MSN hit for Paris Bistros

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Robyn:

Now, were these veggies going to be served raw or cooked?

If everything is going to get cooked anyways, I don't see why it would matter if you chopped bloody beef, raw chicken, veggies, and an apple for a pie for desert all on the same board, they are all going into the oven or the skillet so anything that is transmitted from one to the other is going to still end up dead.


He don't mix meat and dairy,

He don't eat humble pie,

So sing a miserere

And hang the bastard high!

- Richard Wilbur and John LaTouche from Candide

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Robyn:

Now, were these veggies going to be served raw or cooked?

If everything is going to get cooked anyways, I don't see why it would matter if you chopped bloody beef, raw chicken, veggies, and an apple for a pie for desert all on the same board, they are all going into the oven or the skillet so anything that is transmitted from one to the other is going to still end up dead.

it has to do with the temp that the different microbes die at relitive to the cooking temp of the food.


Living hard will take its toll...

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If the food is thoroughly cooked, all bacteria will be killed. It's still a good idea to keep raw and cooked foods as far away from one another as possible. Many times I've eaten a bit of green pepper from my cutting board, and then realized I'd just cut up my chicken breast on it. :blink: I haven't gotten sick yet. YET.

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If the food is thoroughly cooked, all bacteria will be killed.

That might be true. It might not. It all depends on the type of bacteria. Some are spore-formers that can survive temperatures well above 212F/100C. Also some foodborne illnesses are caused, not by the presence of the bacteria themselves, but by the toxic waste they produce - so even when the bacteria are dead, the toxins remain in the food and you get sick.

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Also some foodborne illnesses are caused, not by the presence of the bacteria themselves, but by the toxic waste they produce - so even when the bacteria are dead, the toxins remain in the food and you get sick.

Which is precisely why irradiation as a way of correcting careless handling is a form of russian roulette.


John Whiting, London

Whitings Writings

Top Google/MSN hit for Paris Bistros

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If the food is thoroughly cooked, all bacteria will be killed.

That might be true. It might not. It all depends on the type of bacteria.

I was referring to the chicken-juice type of bacteria on a basic, garden variety home cutting board. Any raw veg cut on that board *should* be ok to eat if they are cooked. Eat at your own risk, I say. If it gives some people agita, then by all means, toss it out. I don't see myself with all sorts of "spore forming" bacterias, etc. although I am aware of them. Took Serv Safe some years back, and passed. Need a refresher though.

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Robyn:

Now, were these veggies going to be served raw or cooked?

If everything is going to get cooked anyways, I don't see why it would matter if you chopped bloody beef, raw chicken, veggies, and an apple for a pie for desert all on the same board, they are all going into the oven or the skillet so anything that is transmitted from one to the other is going to still end up dead.

Raw - salad.

I'm not sure my rules are all sound scientifically - but they've kept us out of the hospital for quite a few years :smile: .

My husband has the proverbial "cast-iron" stomach - so I'm not sure any of this matters to him. My tummy gets upset just reading this thread :sad: . So I try to be careful. Robyn

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What about the husband?  :laugh:

He's been mine for 33 years now. Think I'll keep him despite his foibles :wink: . Robyn

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I'm curious about the comments about plastic cutting boards not being safe. First, what do you mean by plastic? We use polyethylene cutting boards exclusively. We have several and take care to not use the same board for meats and veggies (or we cut the veggies first and then the meats). The boards always go in the dishwasher.

I'm getting the impression that folks here are suggesting this isn't safe? I have a hard time understanding how anything is going to live through the (hot) dishwasher.

Thanks,

-john

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I'm curious about the comments about plastic cutting boards not being safe.  First, what do you mean by plastic?  We use polyethylene cutting boards exclusively.  We have several and take care to not use the same board for meats and veggies (or we cut the veggies first and then the meats).  The boards always go in the dishwasher.

I'm getting the impression that folks here are suggesting this isn't safe?  I have a hard time understanding how anything is going to live through the (hot) dishwasher.

Thanks,

-john

I think the theory is that plastic boards can contain the meat juice and if not washed after meat uses it can transfer the juice to other things.

That being said I use a cheapo plastic board for all things, and only really wash the thing once every month if that, I have yet to get sick from it.


He don't mix meat and dairy,

He don't eat humble pie,

So sing a miserere

And hang the bastard high!

- Richard Wilbur and John LaTouche from Candide

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I'm curious about the comments about plastic cutting boards not being safe.  First, what do you mean by plastic?  We use polyethylene cutting boards exclusively.  We have several and take care to not use the same board for meats and veggies (or we cut the veggies first and then the meats).  The boards always go in the dishwasher.

I'm getting the impression that folks here are suggesting this isn't safe?  I have a hard time understanding how anything is going to live through the (hot) dishwasher.

Thanks,

-john

I think the theory is that plastic boards can contain the meat juice and if not washed after meat uses it can transfer the juice to other things.

That being said I use a cheapo plastic board for all things, and only really wash the thing once every month if that, I have yet to get sick from it.

See John Whiting's post on page 1.

There've been actual lab tests that bear this out, even after washing, the bacteria lived considerably longer - we're talking a day or two I think - on the plastic boards than they did on the wood. I don't believe that the plastic boards were dishwashered though, I think that both were washed with soap & hot water in the sink.

I don't have the reference any more, it was either in the NY Times or New Scientist - New something. :biggrin:

It's easy to get carried away with this cleanliness stuff. I've never in my life used bleach on anything in my kitchen, & have not given self or anyone else food poisoning in 35 years of cooking. I'd be more worried about the bleach somehow getting into the food & making people sick that way.

I've been given food poisoning twice in Chinese restaurants, once in NYC (the classic bad clams) & once in London (the classic MSG overdose, or so said the doc).


Thank God for tea! What would the world do without tea? How did it exist? I am glad I was not born before tea!

- Sydney Smith, English clergyman & essayist, 1771-1845

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I don't  believe that the plastic boards were dishwashered though,

Yah, that was kind of my impression and why I brought it back up (in regards to the plastic + dishwasher). I'm pretty sure that after going through the hot water cycle in the dishwasher, anything there would be dead.

-john

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Unfortunately later that day I developed a nasty bout of food poisoning.  I couldn't help but connect it to the meal at Willi's, though at the time nothing I ate was off.  Somehow I have been unable to return. 

The good news is that you probably didn't get sick from Willi's. The overwhelming majority of food poisoning cases are infections that take 24 to 72 hours to develop before you feel the syptoms. What you remember is of course the last thing you ate, but it's rarely the culprit.

Great thread, I'm looking forward to Paris in March too.

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The good news is that you probably didn't get sick from Willi's. The overwhelming majority of food poisoning cases are infections that take 24 to 72 hours to develop before you feel the syptoms. What you remember is of course the last thing you ate, but it's rarely the culprit.

Although it's true that one typically associates food poisoning with the last thing that one ate before its onset, and that it was typically an earlier meal that's the real culprit, the time between consumption and onset of symptoms is typically much shorter, on the order of 6-8 hours. There's no actual "infection" in these cases---illness is the result of your consuming toxins produced by the bacteria (typically staphylococcus) before you ate it, generally because the food was kept neither sufficiently hot nor sufficiently cold (after having been inadvertently inoculated with the bacteria during preparation). The rapidity of symptom onset and the degree of discomfort are somewhat dose-related: the more toxin built up in the food the quicker and worse the symptoms.

So depending on the timing of VivreManger's symptoms relative to his meal at Willi's, that meal may well have been the culprit.

One of the worst bouts of food poisoning I've ever experienced was in Paris, the result of a meal in a Basque restaurant. Fortunately my husband ate different food, and was able to take care of me.


Can you pee in the ocean?

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