Celebrating Israel's Independence

[cakewalk]

Pepsi, on the other hand, honored the Arab boycott for many years.  It's for that reason many Jews still don't drink Pepsi products.

I did not know that.

You can still occasionally find a restaurant in Jerusalem that will display a sign saying, "Cahn lo shotim Pepsi." ("We don't drink Pepsi here.") But you don't see it that much any more.

[Swisskaese]

Israel is not just about falafel and shwarma. I can say that because I live here. We have a melting pot of restaurants: Russian, Romanian, Indian, Chinese, Persian, Libyan..... and so on. We have a melting pot because Israelis come from all over the world. Hence the Middle Eastern food because Jews also came from all over the Middle East.

With that said, falafel has definitely evolved here. We now have a gourmet falafel stand that serves all different types of "falafel" with different herbs and even with ground chicken and beef. I haven't been there, but I hear it is very good. I can't remember the name of it, but I will try and find it and post it for anyone who is interested.

Come visit and I will be happy to give you a culinary tour of my beautiful country. We will start with the food fair at Dizengoff Centre. Then, I will take you to a Libyan restaurant in Jaffa......

Foodman, I hope to welcome you too someday. Inshallah. I would love to visit Lebanon. Lebanese cuisine is very good.

BTW - Just to let you know how much we love falafel, we even have Falafel flavored crisps. Some of you may be familiar with Osem's Bissli? It now comes in falafel flavor!!!!

As far as a dish that is true to Israel? I can't really think of one that didn't originate in another country. Although, some say that Jerusalem grill is authentic to Israel. I am not so sure. Jerusalem grill is sauteed chicken hearts, livers and spleens and bits of lamb fried with generous amounts of onion and garlic and herbs and spices. The best place to get that is at a rather seedy restaurant called Sima on Agripas St in Jerusalem.

Edited April 30, 2004 by Swisskaese (log)

[cakewalk]

The best place to get that is at a rather seedy restaurant called Sima on Agripas St in Jerusalem.

I'll second that emotion!

[alacarte]

and wash it all down with a Maccabee beer!

[helenas]

I guess my point is that there has to be a more “Israeli” food other than these very ubiquitous items all over the middle east, you know sort of how meatloaf is certainly American, “food Item A” is Israeli. hmmm...now I need to try some Israeli style Falafel and Shawarma and see what the diffrenece is.

"Although several food writers (mostly American) have praised what they call "Israeli cuisine", the truth is that the country has not developed a unique cuisine. What those visitors are praising are the varied styles of Mediterranean cookery, many of which have reached high points within Israel but none of which have come together to form what one might call a "true" cuisine.

This is not a point of shame. In fact, thinking that a country less than 100 years old might have developed a unique cuisine is somewhat silly."

(quoted from Daniel Rogov's )

[richw]

With that said, falafel has definitely evolved here. We now have a gourmet falafel stand that serves all different types of "falafel" with different herbs and even with ground chicken and beef. I haven't been there, but I hear it is very good. I can't remember the name of it, but I will try and find it and post it for anyone who is interested.

Are you talking about "malcot falafel" or Queens of falafel? I've been to the Herzilya location and it is great. They make 3 types, each is served with toppings different from the traditional pita- I just can't remember the variations. I also had their Sabich which was quite tasty as well. There was:

Red pepper falafel

Sweet Potato falafel

Classic original

All served in a Yemenite syle fluffy pita. It was excellent. I am partial to the original. I like the classic the best. I also found that falafel shel haim in Tel-Aviv was excellent. I can go on and on. The food is Israel is indeed wonderful. I love it.

I also think Bissili, which is widely available in the U.S., is the best tasting snack food I've ever had. I'd rather eat bissili than any potato chip. Well maybe yuca chips run a close 2nd.

[bloviatrix]

These mentions of bissli (and I do like the falafel flavor, although it will stay with you for about 24 hours), makes me think of BAMBA.

bamba

Edited April 30, 2004 by bloviatrix (log)

[Pan]

La Bamba? Seriously, what is "bamba"?

[bloviatrix]

Pan, I just edited my post to include a link.

[Pan]

Thanks.

[richw]

Israelis are crazy for Bamba and Shoosh (the competitor). I have never met an Israeli that doesn't love the stuff. Think cheese puffs with peanut butter in place of cheese dust.

[enrevanche]

I, too am a big fan of the chopped "Israeli salad," either as a falafel topping or by itself.

Also, though I know it's not exclusively Israeli, I'm a sucker for good halvah.

[Swisskaese]

[

Are you talking about "malcot falafel" or Queens of falafel? I've been to the Herzilya location and it is great. They make 3 types, each is served with toppings different from the traditional pita- I just can't remember the variations. I also had their Sabich which was quite tasty as well. There was:

Red pepper falafel

Sweet Potato falafel

Classic original

All served in a Yemenite syle fluffy pita. It was excellent. I am partial to the original. I like the classic the best. I also found that falafel shel haim in Tel-Aviv was excellent. I can go on and on. The food is Israel is indeed wonderful. I love it.

I also think Bissili, which is widely available in the U.S., is the best tasting snack food I've ever had. I'd rather eat bissili than any potato chip. Well maybe yuca chips run a close 2nd.

[bloviatrix]

Strawberry Bamba hasn't crossed the Atlantic yet. It's going to take a while for my brain to grasp that flavor.

[Jason Perlow]

This is not a point of shame. In fact, thinking that a country less than 100 years old might have developed a unique cuisine is somewhat silly."

(quoted from Daniel Rogov's )

The country isn't 100 years old. Its at the very least 2000+ years old -- his assertation is bogus. Political changes in the country aside, the middle eastern food there has always been there, in some form or another.

[mongo_jones]

the writer may be onto something, though i don't know what the rest of his political agenda may be. at least the point bears examination, not a simple dismissal as "bogus".

let's not forget that nations in general are very recent inventions--the first modern nation not being all that much older than israel.

we'd have to stretch the meaning of "country" for the 2000 year thing. the jewish people have been around that long and more but the israeli nation that occupies the current geography (however much that changes every day) is far more recent and is predominantly made up of people who settled there after its founding. it would be truer to say that jewish food has been around a long, long time but i'm not so sure about israeli food or that the two categories completely overlap. similarly while middle-eastern food has been in that region for a long time some of it doesn't simply become "israeli" because part of the region becomes israel in the mid-20th century. on the other hand if you're talking about the food of just the jews who'd lived in the area that became modern day israel for the last couple of millenia, and who then became israelis that's a different matter. but to my knowledge the descendants of these people are a minority of the population of the modern state of israel.

[Jason Perlow]

on the other hand if you're talking about the food of just the jews who'd lived in the area that became modern day israel for the last couple of millenia, and who then became israelis that's a different matter. but to my knowledge the descendants of these people are a minority of the population of the modern state of israel.

The term is 'Sabra' and there are a considerable number of them, who can trace their origins back a hundred generations. In fact I have one in my family -- my grandfather's current wife.

And yes, I am referring to the food of that people. The fact of the matter is there WAS a Jewish nation there 3000+ years ago under Saul, Solomon and Herod -- which was then conquered and subjugated by several cultures, including the Romans, and became eventually Palestine as part of the Ottoman Empire and later a British Protectorate. All along that history there have been Israeli Jews -- and Arabs -- and Christians -- coming to and living in that country intermixing their food customs. So to say that the country only has a 100 year old food history because the current government only goes back to 1948 -- or even the 1900s if you want to go back as far as the origins of the Zionist movement which is what he is implying -- then his statement is quite bogus.

Its almost as stupid as implying the India or Pakistan doesn't have a unique food culture because they havent been independent soverign nations that long either.

Edited May 1, 2004 by Jason Perlow (log)

[mongo_jones]

And yes, I am referring to the food of that people. The fact of the matter is there WAS a Jewish nation there 2000+ years ago under King Herod and King Solomon -- which was then conquered by the Romans, and became eventually Palestine as part of the Ottoman Empire and later a British Protectorate. All along that history there have been Israeli Jews -- and Arabs -- and Christians -- coming to and living in that country intermixing their food customs. So to say that the country only has a 100 year old food history because the current government only goes back to 1948 -- or even the 1900s if you want to go back as far as the origins of the Zionist movement which is what he is implying -- then his statement is quite bogus.

Its almost as stupid as implying the India or Pakistan doesn't have a unique food culture because they havent been independent soverign nations that long either.

the "nation" of kings herod or solomon were not nations in the sense that israel is a nation. for instance, herod and solomon were kings. but we don't need to get into political science here (though i would recommend benedict anderson's highly readable imagined communities on the origins of modern nationalism).

and no, there really is no such thing as pakistani cuisine or indian cuisine. there's bengali cuisine, sindhi cuisine, malayali cuisine, punjabi cuisine etc. and for the most part punjabis, sindhis, malayalis, tamils, bengalis, kashmiris etc. have never eaten each other's foods. the newly formed states of india and pakistan (which had also never existed as nations before 1947) had a multiplicity of food cultures but not a unique food culture.

more importantly almost all of the indians in india and many of the pakistanis in pakistan (partition complicates this a little) and their foods were already there when 1947 rolled around. i'm not sure what the percentages are for the sabras (thanks for that reminder--i think i knew that from my teenage years' reading of leon uris) in israel. and i'm not denying that the region has a unique or distinct food history--i'm wondering if a recent political entity like israel or jordan or syria can lay sovereign claim to any of it given that almost none of the current-day middle-eastern geo-political map was in place in 1900. on the other hand the discrete geographic region of "india" was already pretty much in place when the british showed up (though divided up into different administrative units)--some of it just had lines drawn through it later: the mughal map and the british map leading up to 1947 didn't differ very much. i don't know if the same can be said of almost any of the current middle-eastern states with regard to medieval times (leave alone earlier). but india is a complicated story--the only current analogy might be if all of western europe (which could fit inside india, though you wouldn't know this from the mercator projection) was one country.

if there are things from sabra food culture that are unique to the part of the region that became israel then that's a different matter, and i'd love to know more about that. the falafel and shwarma descriptions in this thread are very interesting but they seem to be describing recent (post 1948) innovations. also what relationship do non-sabra israelis have to sabra food etc.? has adopting an israeli identity meant any centralizing of food traditions etc.? or have the multiple cuisines of the returning diaspora remained relatively autonomous and/or hybridized in new ways?

to be clear: i have no agenda here--i'm not out to prove that israel has no unique cuisine of its own; just wondering what it might be, how/if it can be dis-entangled from the rest of the region, and in the case of the latter-day israelis who were already there or whose forefathers were already there in 1948, to what extent their cuisine can be traced by to an ancient israeli "nation" rather than to 2000 years of evolving/contested identity that includes as you say christians, muslims etc. if the sabras' cuisine has developed in this complex hybridized way how much use is it to refer to the israel of solomon or herod in talking about the cuisine of the modern state of israel?

[Jason Perlow]

Well, here's the Israeli Embassy's position on the indigenous cuisine debate, written a few years ago::

Beyond Milk and Honey

BTW mongo, theres a recipe for Cochin Chicken Curry there that you might be interested in.

[mongo_jones]

apparently the israeli foreign affairs ministry and i have a similar take on things:

"You will find that there is no single Israeli cuisine in the sense that there is a French or Italian cuisine. Native Israeli cooking depends on the land of origin of the cook."

though a similar argument could be made for italian and french cuisine. is the cuisine of northern italy closer to that of southern france or to that of sicily?

that cochin chicken curry is very similar (except for the apples) to christian chicken dishes from kerala--not surprising given how recently the jews of south india left for israel. don't know where the apples came from--i don't think apples even grow in cochin. there's like 5 jews left in india now.

by the way, did you know there's a tribe in north-eastern india which claims to be (or has been claimed as) the lost tribe of israel?

[Jason Perlow]

though a similar argument could be made for italian and french cuisine.

Or Chinese cuisine.

I'd be hard pressed to say there isn't a country with a food culture on this planet that wasn't influenced by outsiders, evolved in vaccum or lacks any regional or cultural diversity whatsoever (okay, maybe the Innuits, but they aren't a country). Some of course are less influenced than others, but they are influenced nevertheless.

[mongo_jones]

though a similar argument could be made for italian and french cuisine.

Or Chinese cuisine.

I'd be hard pressed to say there isn't a country with a food culture on this planet that wasn't influenced by outsiders, evolved in vaccum or lacks any regional or cultural diversity whatsoever (okay, maybe the Innuits, but they aren't a country). Some of course are less influenced than others, but they are influenced nevertheless.

fair enough, but i think you have to agree that the majority of modern-day israelis arrived after 1948 (or their parents did)--they were, in a sense, the people bringing the "outside" influence. this is where israel and other "settler" countries differ from other countries. as enough time goes by this stops being an issue.

[Gifted Gourmet]

I also think that people interested in this topic might find additionally, much deeper insights into Israeli foods and their origins in Claudia Roden's The Book of Jewish Food: An Odyssey from Samarkand and Vilna to the Present Day.

My favorite quote from this book is: "Every cuisine tells a story. Jewish food tells the story of an uprooted, migrating people and their vanished worlds. It lives in people's minds and has been kept alive because of what it evokes and represents." -Claudia Roden

Personal note here: the last trip I took to Israel under the guidance of Peter Geffen of the Heschel Schools in the U.S., studied the various "edot" or ethnicities and their foods and how they all became part of present day Israeli culture. Most engaging tour and it offered a variety of learning about the cultures and how each group living in different countries not only "picked up" but "brought in" Jewish influences. Photography books, by Frederick Brenner from France, a nice visual here:

Brenner's Books

Frederic Brenner wrote, "The Jews I have photographed are all contemporary, but together they reflect a full spectrum of space and time . . . Diaspora: An experience of dispossession and discontinuity. . . . The photographs enable us to see and acknowledge the multiple threads from which we are woven, to listen to and acknowledge the multiple voices within us, even when paradoxical."

Edited May 1, 2004 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[mongo_jones]

thanks for the recommendation--i will look for it. does it also have recipes?

[Jason Perlow]

I dont think relative population sizes pre and post modern diaspora has a hell of a lot to do with it. Sure, the immigrants bring diversity, but they don't completely overwhelm the indigenous culture that already exists. Its probably one of the oldest indigenous cultures on the planet -- going back 3000 years. An influx of six million people (and yes, I agree with you, its a lot) over a 60 year span isn't going to just wipe it out like shaking an Etch-a-sketch.

Not being Israeli (and my last visit to Israel was in 1990) I obviously have my own slanted view on things -- I'd like to hear from more Israelis on this and see what they have to say on this subject.