An interface between the two languages

[Hiroyuki]

I have no clear image of how this thread is going to be in the future.

The future of this thread is up to members. I like this sentence:

If you build it, he will come.

I have built a thread, somebody will come.

Maybe you can use this thread to ask a question like this:

I don't know how to pronounce 甘夏. Somebody help me.

Someone else (probably me) can answer that question.

Note: If a moderator finds this thread inappropriate, I'd like him or her to delete it.

[torakris]

I have no problem with this thread as long as it pretty much sticks with food related stuff!

If you have a Japanese word that you want to know what it means or vice versa a word in English that you want to know its English equivalent please post here.

If on the otherhand you actually want to discuss a particular food then a new thread wouuld be more appropriate as things could get lost in here.

[Hiroyuki]

I understand that English-speaking people have difficulty pronouncing short and long vowels correctly.

In Japanese, the difference between short and long vowels is critical.

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Another possible confusion:

Shoh-jo, mentioned above, is written as しょうじょ in hiragana, or sho-u-jo.

Confused?

Let me give you another example.

The Japanese word for clock (or watch) is written as とけい (to-ke-i) in hiragana, but it is actually pronounced not to-ke-i but to-kee (where kee denotes a long ke vowel).

Edited April 27, 2004 by Hiroyuki (log)

[Hiroyuki]

Today's review:

甘夏　a-ma-na-tsu: sweet Chinese citron

お好み焼き o-ko-no-mi-ya-ki: Japanese pizza?

目利き　me-ki-ki: connosseur, judgment

[jhlurie]

Hiroyuki , you may want to stick to a strict "ask a question and be answered" format. If you specifically go the route of daily language lessons, you may be duplicative of many of the entries in Kris' famous long running daily Nihongo: talking about food in Japanese topic.

Don't mistake me, in my opinion the greater the supply of knowledge providers available here the better. There just may be some confusion and overlap between the topics if care isn't taken.

[Hiroyuki]

OK. I'll follow your suggestion.

[torakris]

I was under the impression that this thread would be a place where people could just ask a question that wasn't pertaining to any thread. For example if someone had lunch at a Japanese friend's house and was served a dish with myoga in it and maybe the Japanese friend couldn't explain what they was then they could come to this thread and ask, "what is myoga?".

It is a kind of question that doesn't really need a whole thread about it and the person may not be able to find a relevant in the Japan Forum pages, it would just need a simple answer and then would be over.

For answering questions about things like pronunciations or other things that appear already in an existing thread I feel it is better to answer in that thread, most people will not think to look over here for the answer and it could be a lot of work, and quite confusing to readers if we just start pulling various words out of threads on a daily basis and listing them here.

Just my opinion.....

[Sleepy_Dragon]

So when attempting to order nigiri sushi from the waitstaff, let's say you want several kinds, do you have to put "to" between each type of nigiri?

ie. Otoro to shiromaguro to uni to sawara to ikura to hamachi wo onegaishimasu.

What is the best way to order a list of things you choose?

Pat

[Hiroyuki]

ie. Otoro to shiromaguro to uni to sawara to ikura to hamachi wo onegaishimasu. 

Perfect Japanese. Any Japanese would be amazed at your fluency in Japanese. Omitting "to" between items sounds rather curt to me. But some Japanese may have other opinions.

You know, there can no such things as the "best way" to order. Yours is really perfect--really a polite way of ordering. Some japanese, especially males, just mention the item only, not adding "wo kudasai", "wo onegaishimasu", and so on.

One correction: not nigiri sushi but nigiri zushi. When preceded by certain words, sushi changes into zushi.

Thus,

chirashi zushi

inari zushi

temaki zushi

If you read Japanese hiragana, this may be easier to understand: su す changes to zu ず.

[Sleepy_Dragon]

Thank you very much for the clarification, Hiroyuki. And the compliment, but the credit for that should go to my Japanese teacher, as he is careful about teaching the polite form for everything! Well, he will teach the blunt form too, but only as a warning for what -not- to say unless the situation is a really familiar one among peers where you know the context is ok.

So ok, using "to" (means "and" for anyone else reading and trying to follow along) is considered polite. That's a relief to know. I haven't wanted to try ordering in Japanese because it sounded so excessive to say "to" after each thing, especially when my typical nigiri zushi (zushi! Thank you for this correction too) order is 8-12 kinds. I'm glad it's actually ok.

Arigatou gozaimasu, Hiroyuki-san.

Pat

Edited April 30, 2004 by Sleepy_Dragon (log)

[Gary Soup]

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

[Hiroyuki]

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

I don't know what to say. I'd like a moderator or someone appropriate to delete any offensive remarks I have made.

[torakris]

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

I don't know what to say. I'd like a moderator or someone appropriate to delete any offensive remarks I have made.

I don't think there is anything offensive here, it is just a good example of how the meaning can change by shortening or lengthening the stress on the vowel.

I have really noticed that this is one problem that foreigners (myself included) seem to have the most problems.....

[Pan]

You think Japanese is hard for pronunciation of short and long vowels? Try Hungarian...

[Gary Soup]

Don't confuse sho-jo (virgin) 処女 with shoh-jo (girl) 少女.

Is this a commentary on modern Japanese society? I'll only speculate on which one has anything to do with eating.

I don't know what to say. I'd like a moderator or someone appropriate to delete any offensive remarks I have made.

Just my dumb idea of a joke, Hiroyuki. My post was probably more offensive than yours, but boys will be boys.

Edited April 30, 2004 by Gary Soup (log)

[Hiroyuki]

You think Japanese is hard for pronunciation of short and long vowels? Try Hungarian...

I'm sorry, I don't know a word of Hungarian.

If you are fluent in it, could you be kind enough to give us some examples?

Oh, no, I remembered. This forum is not on languages! You don't have to do that!

[Pan]

I'm not fluent, anyway, just someone who struggled with rudimentary Hungarian while in Budapest for two weeks. I ate very well there, by the way, but that's off-topic for this thread.

[mcabr]

I would like to know something. What is tokoro ten? Is it made with yam noodles? The noodles are kind of glassier than the common yam cake that you see. I would also like to know what goes on them other than vinegar. I would like to make some so that my girlfriend can taste it. I just want to know if she likes it or not.

[Hiroyuki]

Tokoro ten is made from several types of seaweed that are collectively called tengusa 天草. It is almost always eaten with either vinegar-based sauce called san-bai-zu 三杯酢 or kuro-mitu 黒蜜, syrup made from brown sugar.

I found two interesting sites on tokoro ten.

Tokoroten coffee:

http://www.ryouri.co.jp/cmail/data/2002/02...2/0207p2m6.html

Tokoroten salad:

http://www.ryouri.co.jp/cmail/data/2002/02...2/0206p2m5.html

Sorry, that is about all I can give you in this thread. If you want to know more about it, I'd like you to start a new thread on it.

I hope you will please her with your tokoro ten dish.

[mcabr]

Tokoro ten is made from several types of seaweed that are collectively called tengusa 天草. It is almost always eaten with either vinegar-based sauce called san-bai-zu 三杯酢 or kuro-mitu 黒蜜, syrup made from brown sugar.

I found two interesting sites on tokoro ten.

Tokoroten coffee:

http://www.ryouri.co.jp/cmail/data/2002/02...2/0207p2m6.html

Tokoroten salad:

http://www.ryouri.co.jp/cmail/data/2002/02...2/0206p2m5.html

Sorry, that is about all I can give you in this thread. If you want to know more about it, I'd like you to start a new thread on it.

I hope you will please her with your tokoro ten dish.

Thanks for the info. So the second website says that I can buy it precut and everything. I am not really into the sweet stuff I want to vinegar type. I need to check if my local Japanese market has it. Thanks.

[torakris]

Tokoroten is most commonly eaten as a summer food, thus you might not find it in the Japanese markets for a little while longer. I have seen it once already in my area of Yokohama but by mid summer it should be everywhere.

I eat it with the vinegar dressing and karashi.

[Sleepy_Dragon]

What are some things you could say to express how much you enjoyed a meal at a restaurant? What about in someone's home?

Usually I just say:

おいしかったです。ありがとうございます。(It was delicious. Thank you.)

What other things would be appropriate in different situations?

I also recall my Japanese teacher mentioning there are gendered versions too (including the specific word for delicious?), but I don't remember what they are.

Pat

[Hiroyuki]

Thanks for a question, but I'm kind of busy right now. I'll answer your question within the next eight hours, OK?

[Sleepy_Dragon]

Of course, there is no rush, and thank you.

Pat

[Palladion]

In a similar vein to Pat's question, I was once dining with a Japanese elementary school teacher and he told me to ask for water by saying 「お冷ください」 (ohiyakudasai), rather than whatever I was going to say (probably something like 「水ください」. He said that the ohiya version was cooler or something. Know anything about it?