Coffeehouse and Cafe Reviews

[barrett]

I have to recind that comment ... was at the JJ on Commercial on Tuesday and damn near had to walk out the service was so friggin' slow.  There must have been 6 staff behind the counter, and another 2 or 3 milling about in the back ... nobody doing anything I would call productive.  I know it was the first day back after New Years, but still .... 

The guy who I have to assume is the new manager is the only person there who knows how to pull a shot.  The barista who was working on my 3 shot latte must have tossed out 3 attempts at espresso.  It wasn't busy ... he wasn't "in the weeds" ... he just didn't know what he was doing.  It's either lack of training or lack of ability ... but I shouldn't have to wait 15 minutes for a latte when I'm the only one in line!

I try not to rant ... but I'm hoping someone from JJ's lurks here, or that hopkin or barret can pass this along.  I would have said something myself, but the "assumed" manager had 4 staff around him at the time, and I'm not about to be late for an appointment so I can tell him what he should already know.

I've been to The Elysian Room twice this week ... if you weren't so far out of my way Alistaire I'd have a new fave 

A.

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Something I look for when I'm training a new barista is whether they realize that they are overwhelmed, and they need to step out of the way. I'll gladly let them know for you - no idea when they'll drop by again though.

[Mooshmouse]

Had not one but two coffees from The Elysian Room on Thursday: one cappuccino in house and one latte to go. Both outstanding. As I mentioned to Alistair, I usually take a little bit of sugar even in my espresso drinks -- chalk it up to nostalgia for all the sweet Filipino coffee/cafe au lait that I grew up with -- but the cappuccino and latte were so rich and smooth that I didn't bother with the extra sweetness. Yummy.

However, I stopped in with the rest of the Mouse clan after lunch for another cappuccino and an apple/cranberry/oatmeal cookie. I found today's cappuccino to be more bitter than Thursday's and had to add my usual teaspoon of sugar. Mr. Mouse also had the same comment on bitterness with his Americano, but he stuck it out black as usual.

Another day, another coffee. At least I got rock-star parking both days.

Edited January 15, 2005 by Mooshmouse (log)

[Ling]

I must be driving past the Elysium Room everyday (it's on Burrard and 5th, right?) but I still haven't spotted it. I also drove down 5th to search for it, but all I found was a "romance" boutique.

[Mooshmouse]

I must be driving past the Elysium Room everyday (it's on Burrard and 5th, right?) but I still haven't spotted it. I also drove down 5th to search for it, but all I found was a "romance" boutique. 

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Okay Ling. We know you wanted us to think you were looking for The Elysian Room.

It's in the same building as the 5th Avenue Cinemas, around the corner on the northeast side.

You can always get your espresso to go and then walk across Burrard to shop for some "romance".

[montrachet]

My "non-rock star" parking spot is in front of the romance boutique. You could always testdrive a Beemer and see if the cupholder operates properly.

[Ling]

After picking up a few things at the "romance" boutique today (kidding... ) I found my way to the Elysium Room thanks to Joie. My Americano was great! (Was that you, Alisdair? I didn't want to sound all dorky by saying, "Hi I'm Ling on Egullet--do you post on there too?" I was the asian girl who came in around 8:30pm.) The cookies looked good too, but I'll have to report back on those (had a few too many cookies already earlier in the day )

The Elysium Room is on my way home...this could get expensive.

Edited January 16, 2005 by Ling (log)

[Rosco]

After picking up a few things at the "romance" boutique today (kidding... ) I found my way to the Elysium Room thanks to Joie. My Americano was great! (Was that you, Alisdair? I didn't want to sound all dorky by saying, "Hi I'm Ling on Egullet--do you post on there too?" I was the asian girl who came in around 8:30pm.) The cookies looked good too, but I'll have to report back on those (had a few too many cookies already earlier in the day  )

The Elysium Room is on my way home...this could get expensive. 

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Coming in a little late on this thread, but thanks Daddy-A and peppyre for putting me on track. I, like soo many others, am an Artigiano supporter.. not only because they have the best coffee in town (most of mine comes from West Pender, the Village in West Van, and my cafetera), but also because every cafe has adequate staff to serve it up....when you need it.

I take my espresso short and straight up, and its going to be tough to convince my palet that there is a better taste than the one that comes with an espresso from Caffe Artigiano.....especially following a nice meal!

[Ling]

My Americano on Saturday from the Elysium Room was really the best I'd ever had, and I've had Caffe Artigiano quite a few times in the past few months. I went to the Elysium Room again yesterday after work, and my Americano was slightly more bitter (made by a different barista) but still quite delicious.

[*Deborah*]

OK, one of these days I will go to this Elysian Room (Chambre Élysée? ) and try the coffee.

I should have gone Saturday while I was circumnavigating Vancouver (twice) running all my errands...

Edited to correct my French gender stupidity.

Edited January 18, 2005 by *Deborah* (log)

[Ling]

omg...I just realized I've been calling the Elysian Room something else this entire thread! embarrassing....

[Gobstopper]

Some of the more general coffee knowledge in this thread has been very educational. Of Vancouver coffee, I can't really speak with much authority. In Calgary, we have, I believe, two in house roasters, neither of which actually make tremendous coffee - Like the difference between burnt onions and carmelized onions - I find both the Roasterie and The Planet to carry some scratchy burnt out beans.

I worked for the Kensington Second Cup close to a decade ago - At the time, they were the highest per customer ratio of espresso based drinks in the country (among that franchise). Out here in our "little city" options are less available it seems. There are many independent coffee shops but few varieties in roaster, and I think few of them do the volume necessary to have a decent barista and fresh enough espresso beans. As a result - despite the general outcry against the "chains" there are locations in which they could well be the best choice. If anyone knows of some high volume accessible coffee shops that have the bling - please let me know.

As far as buying decent beans in town - I find picking darker beans from the second cup, from bins with unopened sealed bags, is the only consistent bean quality I've found. God knows, at most locations, Starbucks is still pitching pre-ground holiday beans at full price. Though, I don't know if there is a fresher dark roast coffee to be had in the city. We don't really have the luxury of extensive choice.

[hopkin]

If anyone knows of some high volume accessible coffee shops that have the bling - please let me know.

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Calgary: Big Mountain Coffee House & Roasters Ltd., located at 1004 8th St. SW

(see thread on CoffeeGeek)

[hopkin]

Just wanted to let everyone know that the Cafe Artigiano thread has now been merged into this thread.

I think Artigiano deserve a thread of their own.

a general post to anyone interested in coffee in Vancouver.  Run, don't walk to the Elysian Room.

I am very pleased and humbled to hear everyone’s good experiences at The Elysian Room. I really look forward to meeting more egulleters and I hope that your coffee here is excellent. If its not, please let us know and we will gladly make you another.

I am sorry to hear any criticism of Artigiano and JJ Bean. Like getting an average meal in a fantastic restaurant, not everyone can be 'on' all of the time. The coffeehouse scene in Vancouver was quite pathetic until the last 2-3 years, although it still has a long way to go, a huge quality upscale began here with JJ Bean and Artigiano. They deserve credit for delivering truly quality coffee. I hope that whatever negative experiences anyone had, you will try again with an open mind. Just as you buy fresh local produce, show your support for the few local coffeehouses and roasteries who focus on delivering excellent coffee.

High quality espresso is extremely difficult to produce. It is an extremely volatile, mysterious, elusive liquid, i know of no other culinary product that compares. Coffee is an organic product subject to all the elements of farming and agriculture, and its full potential can only be achieved if a massive list of criteria are in check. For the most part, bad espresso can be hidden by milk to make an average tasting latte.

For espresso, the roaster will blend perhaps 3-4 separate roast profiles into an espresso blend. The day after roasting it finally reaches the cafe and into the hands of the barista. It will rest (de-gas) for 2 days and be used within 6 days. For each espresso shot, approximately 60 coffee beans will be ground fresh within 1 minute of brewing. The grinder must be dialed in and adjusted often, almost every hour to compensate for humidity changes that effect grind particle size and therefore the rate of extraction. The barista will dose and tamp, load it into the perfectly clean espresso machine that has been temperature calibrated according to the blend being brewed. Under 9 atmospheres of pressure (about 550 pounds) the espresso will drip and pour like honey for about 28 seconds. If everyone has done their job well, you will receive an excellent espresso with a complex and delicious aroma (as roasted coffee has), is not bitter but semi-sweet with such a pleasant and lingering aftertaste that you do not even want to drink water. You'll want it to permeate the pores of your mouth as the flavour develops on your palate for 10 to 20 minutes.

When I look at coffee beans and sip coffee, I often think of all the hard work (and low income) that brought me this demitasse of delicious, fragile liquid. The farmers who grow it, his kids who pick ripe cherries, the men and women who process the fruit, drying it, separating the bean, cleaning, sorting, grading and bagging the green beans then shipped thousands of miles to the importer and quality control. Then to the roaster who sample roasts and cups the coffee, searching for the sweet spot for each origin before production roasting and shipping to then be brewed with complex equipment - there are so many careers of expertise involved in this chain and every one of them must be done with passion in order to achieve a great cup of coffee.

When roasted fresh and brewed properly, coffee produces distinctive notes of fruits, woods, nuts, spices... brewing and tasting coffee is as, or even more complex than wine.

The most popular prepared beverage in the world, the second largest commodity (next to oil), coffee is widely misunderstood, underestimated, and taken for granted. So are barista's and coffee shops. Coffee deserves its place in the culinary arts.

[winegeek]

Alistair,

Thanks for the education. Very well written. I also appreciate your support of the other (great) coffee houses in Vancouver. Living in North Vancouver, I have yet to have the pleasure of experiencing your coffee but will make a point to next time I cross 2 bridges .

[canucklehead]

Was down and a new coffee shop on Commercial - "Prado".

Very beautiful space and lots of organic coffee for sale. Had a latte and it tasted very "light". But then, I wonder if this is because I started drinking coffee when Starbuck came out and now and am a big Artigiano guy - and my palate (sic?) has been burned on dark italian roasts. Apparently - overly dark roasting is a good way to hide flaws in the beans.

This is a result of reading Edward Behr's "Artful Eater" and his deep research on coffee. Hopkin - your information is excellent and very much in line with Edward Behr's writings.

Perhaps I am over analyzing and should simply enjoy what I enjoy.

[SushiCat]

Alistair,

you are quite eloquent in your comments, and I just wanted to add that like JJBean and Artigiano, Starbucks has a role to play in our current coffee scene. It is all too often that I hear many coffee snobs (I am one too ) bad mouthing the allmighty *$, but you know we wouldn't be where we are today without these folks.

The good news is with more and more educated consumers, and proprieters willing to go for quality over total profit, we get better coffee in more cafes, restaurants and perhaps someday even the bars (like in Italy).

I for one am grateful that in Vancouver we can easily find good coffee beans to brew at home, and in many locations good espresso drinks brewed by our local baristi ... it is part of what makes Vancouver !

[Daddy-A]

Perhaps I am over analyzing and should simply enjoy what I enjoy.

Not at all! Over-analysis is accepted and even encouraged here on eGullet!

I agree with Sushicat in spades regarding Alistair's insights. He is my new coffee-guru. Hopefully we'll be able to cajole him into hosting a cupping "soon" at The Elysian.

A.

[Daddy-A]

I would like to hear more about the Park Royal location. I'm the manager, and I've been there since day one. One of the drawbacks to the ristretto shots we pull is the fine line you must dance to pull them. A touch low in volume - bitter. A touch over - no longer a ristretto. We will always make a new espresso if it doesn't meet your expectations.

I hope your visits (coop and winegeek) were not recent. We trained the staff almost completely from scratch - and they have come a very long way, believe me. We prefer to teach from scratch. It may seem like more work, but in the long run, it's not.

A few days ago, I'd read good (not great) things about our espresso on coffeegeek, and was pleased. When I read this, I was taken aback, I wanted to learn more... so, if you're willing, give me the details. I'll figure this out, and fix it.

I was able to drop by the West Van location of Artigiano today. True, it was my 4th shot of espresso this morning, but I've never let the jitters come between me and thorough coffee research.

Staff wise (FYI barret) things were fine. Friendly, not too chatty. The room wasn't very busy, so it's not like it was much of a challenge The barista didn't ask me how much milk vs. foam I wanted in my machiatto ... small thing I know (what a jerk eh?), but something I like as I prefer mine quite dry.

The room is really cozy - but, as others have mentioned, it's really tight around the bar. I'm not sure what could have been done in that paticular location to correct that ... the bar is set up perfectly IMO, so I certainly wouldn't want to change that. Then again, just about every coffee bar I frequent suffers from tight spaces around the bar as well.

The coffee ... as good as I've had from Artigiano. Which still puts it second best to Elysian right now Nice and creamy, a hint of bitterness (which is fine with me) which is cut by the sweetenss of the milk (why do I feel like a celebrity taster on Iron Chef?). My biscotti was okay ... but I'm really fussy with baked goods.

So, whatever you're doing over there barret, it seems to have sorted out any concerns other eGulleters may have experienced (the room issues notwithstanding).

A.

[barrett]

Under 9 atmospheres of pressure (about 550 pounds) the espresso will drip and pour like honey for about 28 seconds.

The most popular prepared beverage in the world, the second largest commodity (next to oil), coffee is widely misunderstood, underestimated, and taken for granted.  So are barista's and coffee shops.  Coffee deserves its place in the culinary arts.

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1atm is 14.7 psi, which makes 9 atm 132.3 psi.

Isn't tea more popular?

I was able to drop by the West Van location of Artigiano today.  True, it was my 4th shot of espresso this morning, but I've never let the jitters come between me and thorough coffee research.

Staff wise (FYI barret) things were fine.  Friendly, not too chatty.  The room wasn't very busy, so it's not like it was much of a challenge The barista didn't ask me how much milk vs. foam I wanted in my machiatto ... small thing I know (what a jerk eh?), but something I like as I prefer mine quite dry.

The room is really cozy - but, as others have mentioned, it's really tight around the bar.  I'm not sure what could have been done in that paticular location to correct that ... the bar is set up perfectly IMO, so I certainly wouldn't want to change that.  Then again, just about every coffee bar I frequent suffers from tight spaces around the bar as well.

The coffee ... as good as I've had from Artigiano.  Which still puts it second best to Elysian right now  Nice and creamy, a hint of bitterness (which is fine with me) which is cut by the sweetenss of the milk (why do I feel like a celebrity taster on Iron Chef?).  My biscotti was okay ... but I'm really fussy with baked goods.

So, whatever you're doing over there barret, it seems to have sorted out any concerns other eGulleters may have experienced (the room issues notwithstanding).

A.

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You could always ask for it dry. We tend not to ask a bunch of questions, we find it annoys people.

[barrett]

I wonder if this is because I started drinking coffee when Starbuck came out and now and am a big Artigiano guy

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You may like to know that the Kerrisdale store is having a silent opening on Friday, the 28th.

[hopkin]

1atm is 14.7 psi, which makes 9 atm 132.3 psi.

how many square inches in a portafilter basket? for dramatic effect i quoted a reputable figure who referred to the equivalent of 9 bar in 'tamping pressure'. as can be seen with a naked portafilter the stainless steel basket actually bulges out convex when the pump is engaged. point is its A LOT.

Isn't tea more popular?

Many sources claim Coffee is. Many sources claim Tea is. Some even claim that Beer is. Interesting. I do see a LOT more coffee shops than there are tea houses. Statistics are based on interpretation... by tonnage coffee weighs more so it may be said we drink more coffee than tea. point is we drink A LOT.

[SushiCat]

I wonder if this is because I started drinking coffee when Starbuck came out and now and am a big Artigiano guy

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You may like to know that the Kerrisdale store is having a silent opening on Friday, the 28th.

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Barrett, are you telling us Artigiano is opening in Kerrisdale the 28th ... former Torrefazione location?

[Daddy-A]

You could always ask for it dry. We tend not to ask a bunch of questions, we find it annoys people.

Fair enough. I was actually reading the North Shore News when he made it, so he didn't have a chance to ask. Nonetheless, it was a very good machiatto.

1atm is 14.7 psi, which makes 9 atm 132.3 psi.

how many square inches in a portafilter basket? for dramatic effect i quoted a reputable figure who referred to the equivalent of 9 bar in 'tamping pressure'. as can be seen with a naked portafilter the stainless steel basket actually bulges out convex when the pump is engaged. point is its A LOT.

It's official! I am no longer the biggest geek on this site!! Just kidding guys ... this is amazing info.

A.

[barrett]

Barrett, are you telling us Artigiano is opening in Kerrisdale the 28th ... former Torrefazione location?

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Yes.

[SushiCat]

Coffee updates

As we hear from Barrett Artigiano is openingin Kerrisdale and I heard they will have not only *$ to compete with, but also Esquire(s?) ... I would say that Artigiano will do well as everyone I know in that area has been missing Torrefazione. Good for me, as this will be the easiest Artigiano to get to, however I do have some allegiance to hopkin a la chambre elysee

I also stopped in at Brazzo on the weekend ... dare I say I was an e-glutton this weekend! Fit in two DOV dinners, as well as gelato at Brazza and several 'extra' coffees! But I digress...

Brazza uses Intelligentsia beans, Black Cat to be exact in their espresso ... had to try it! The coffee was quite delicious tasting, very clean espresso flavour, by which I mean it tasted roasty and smooth. I confess to not having ordered straight espresso as I usually do when trying a caffee for the first time ... so really detailed comparisons on the quality/flavour are not valid. They also have a very sleek macchina al caffe

The overall experience, atmosphere etc. was not something I would gravitate towards, but I can't fault the quality of the coffee.

Also I couldn't walk away without my own pound of Black Cat ... I'll let you know how it fairs for home brewing ... supposedly relatively fresh (within one week of roasting) and in a flavor-lock bag, but pretty steep on the $$.

It was worth it all, the dollars, the coffees (forgot to mention that I was also at Elysian on Saturday after DOV at HSG for coffees! I get around , now it is time to repent ... tonight for dinner, water and steamed broccoli with lemon ... and extra cardio at the gym!