Please Translate This! Help with Foreign Language Recipes, Culinary Terms, Labels

[Ptipois]

Well, now you have all sorts of conflicting answers, so I guess we will have to wait for Pitipois to chime in.

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Felice, that was quite right. Cabillaud = cod, codfish, from the Flemish kabeljauw. Loup is sea bass (also called bar), saint-pierre is John Dory, and dorade is sea bream. Catfish is not eaten in France though you may find some frozen in Asian stores.

Edited June 29, 2006 by Ptipois (log)

[BigboyDan]

Only HALF of what has been posted above is correct - try again.

[Felice]

Well, now you have all sorts of conflicting answers, so I guess we will have to wait for Pitipois to chime in.

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Felice, that was quite right. Cabillaud = cod, codfish, from the Flemish kabeljauw. Loup is sea bass (also called bar), saint-pierre is John Dory, and dorade is sea bream. Catfish is not eaten in France though you may find some frozen in Asian stores.

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Merci Pitipois, I knew you would have the answer.

It's strange that there is so much conflicting info. Both government publications I looked at (the one I had on fisheries and the link I gave above from Canada) listed loup as catfish, not that I would expect them to know much about food.

[bleudauvergne]

I have always considered Dorade to be a kind of snapper. But then again I learned many of my fish in French. Anyway when I cook english recipes calling for snapper I always look for dorade.

[Ptipois]

It's strange that there is so much conflicting info.  Both government publications I looked at (the one I had on fisheries and the link I gave above from Canada) listed loup as catfish, not that I would expect them to know much about food.

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No, actually that makes sense. There are so many vernacular fish names all over the Atlantic coasts, East and West. When I wrote catfish in my previous post I meant freshwater catfish, which is generally not eaten in France. But it is also one of the local names of the wolf-fish or "loup marin", a large Northern fish unrelated to sea-bass. In France this fish is sold ready filleted at fishmongers, so you never see what it looks like (a very large goby), and it is labeled "loup de l'Atlantique", so there you are.

Why "loup de l'Atlantique" ? Because "loup" means sea bass on the French Mediterranean coasts, while it it called "bar' on the Atlantic coast. So there are two "loups" in the French seas, one in the Atlantic and it's not a bar, one in the Mediterranean, and that one is a bar and not a loup marin. A bit confusing.

Alan Davidson's North Atlantic Seafood is a great reference book on the subject.

[Ptipois]

I have always considered Dorade to be a kind of snapper.  But then again I learned many of my fish in French.  Anyway when I cook english recipes calling for snapper I always look for dorade.

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Dorades and snappers look alike but they're not related; dorades and porgies are Sparidae and near-tropical (Mediterranean)/tropical fish, snappers are Lutjanidae, tropical fish that rarely swim North of their zone. Snappers are rarely found in France except flown-in at Asian of African markets or frozen. They have firmer flesh than the dorades and porgies. However you may perfectly use dorade for recipes using snapper, except that the flesh will be a bit more fragile. If you can find very large and fresh fillets you'll get closer to the original, and marinating them will increase the likeness. I particularly think of onion-lemon-chili marinades as in the West African yassa dishes. (Dorade en yassa is yum.)

Oh, also: about dorade/daurade. Supposedly you should use one or the other spelling depending on whether you have a plain plebeian dorade or a daurade royale (gilt-headed bream). According to knowledgeable fish chef Jacques Le Divellec this is not true, both spellings may be used indistinctly. That makes the whole thing much easier.

And there are many subspecies of Sparidae and closely-related Bramidae: sar, denté or dentex (those last two only in the Mediterranean), pageot, dorade rose, dorade grise, dorade royale. They all look related and are all good eating. Dorade royale is often farmed, watch the labels closely when the fish is under 800 grams or 1 kilo, no farmed dorade makes it to that weight. Buying a very large fish ensures that it was fished in the wild.

Edited July 1, 2006 by Ptipois (log)

[John Talbott]

St Pierre is John Dory.

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Full marks to everyone and my excuses for being out of pocket so long (but for a good reason - I was actually sampling the fish mentioned above at one of the principal fishing islands off the coast.)

As a Yank, I have always found the translation of St Pierre as John Dory to be confusing - it doesn't help me identify the fish, because to my knowledge, only Brits and ex-colonials from Aussie-Kiwi-lands say John Dory, most of us other ex-colonists have never heard this descriptor.

My handy-dandy "McLane's Fish Buyer's Guide" gives conflicting info on St Pierre fish, placing it (1) among the Cichlids of which Blue Tilapia and Mozambique Tilapia are the closest translations and (2) Dories (Dory pleural) of which John Dory or Zeus Faber is as well. In any case, it says that the former (Cichlids) are not native to North America (but are cultivated in the US) and the latter (John Dories) are "rarely" found in Western Atlantic waters.

End of class.

Edited July 1, 2006 by John Talbott (log)

[Ptipois]

St Pierre is John Dory.

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As a Yank, I have always found the translation of St Pierre as John Dory to be confusing - it doesn't help me identify the fish, because to my knowledge, only Brits and ex-colonials from Aussie-Kiwi-lands say John Dory, most of us other ex-colonists have never heard this descriptor.

My handy-dandy "McLane's Fish Buyer's Guide" gives conflicting info on St Pierre fish, placing it (1) among the Cichlids of which Blue Tilapia and Mozambique Tilapia are the closest translations and (2) Dories (Dory pleural) of which John Dory or Zeus Faber is as well. In any case, it says that the former (Cichlids) are not native to North America (but are cultivated in the US) and the latter (John Dories) are "rarely" found in Western Atlantic waters.

End of class.

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C'est malin, now I want to eat a grilled saint-pierre.

At least in the French context, saint-pierre is clearly Zeus faber, of the Zeidae family. I never heard of a cichlid being called saint-pierre, but there must be more than one Pierre swimming in the seas — maybe in French-speaking parts of the New World?

Quoting Davidson on saint-pierre: « Engl. John Dory, Dory, family Zeidae. Portuguese: peixe galo, peixe são Pedro [...] Dutch zonnevis, German Heringskönig, Swedish Sankt Peterfisk, etc.

The species is well known in the Mediterranean and the Bay of Biscay. It occurs as far north as Norway but it is not found in abundance north of the English Channel and Ireland. Its American counterpart, Zenopsis ocellata (Storer), is found mainly between Nova Scotia and North Carolina, but not in quantities sufficient to excite commercial interest. »

I found a picture of Zenopsis ocellata. Boo!

Oh, by the way, saint-pierre used to be called "l'horrible" in some parts of France.

Edited July 1, 2006 by Ptipois (log)

[S_tran]

All good eating! 

Are you gutting and filleting these fish as part of your stage?

How are they cooking them? 

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Hello sorry for the late reply, thanks for the info i will try to corroborate the info above and the Maitre D' cuz he speaks english a bit. And yes guts and all, quite fun cuz i get to stay in the fish room while its 32 degrees outside, quite hot.

[William Black]

Hi I was wondering if you guys could translate something for me.

What kind of fish are

Cabillaud

Loup

St Pierre

and

Dorad

in english, because i have been fileting an d gutting these fish but i am not very familiar with them. Thanks!

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Just seen this and since I spent many years buying fish in France and selling it in English, then cld add a little but maybe you have all got it covered:

Cabillaud is cod, which is also called increasingly morue fraiche ( fresh salt cod) and comes from the Dutch.

Loup ( de mer) is also called bar and is sea bass. Loup is mainly used in the south. Being sea bass much of it isfarmed these days.

St Pierre: also occasionally called John Dory in the North ( where I once worked) . the name comes from its colour when fresh which is golden yellow, or jaune doré...

the mark of st peter is a well known story, but forgets that this fish never swam in the sea of galilee.

Tilapia is sometimes called St Peters fish...funny old world...they ( the males) keep their babies in their mouth until mature...novel idea wont catch on with us i think

Dorade: is as broad a category as sea bream , or snapper. Mainly refers to fish caught off West Africa, and the dorade grise caught in European waters which doesnt taste too good.

Edited July 10, 2006 by William Black (log)

[Adam Balic]

I have always considered Dorade to be a kind of snapper.  But then again I learned many of my fish in French.  Anyway when I cook english recipes calling for snapper I always look for dorade.

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Dorades and snappers look alike but they're not related; dorades and porgies are Sparidae and near-tropical (Mediterranean)/tropical fish, snappers are Lutjanidae, tropical fish that rarely swim North of their zone. Snappers are rarely found in France except flown-in at Asian of African markets or frozen. They have firmer flesh than the dorades and porgies. However you may perfectly use dorade for recipes using snapper, except that the flesh will be a bit more fragile. If you can find very large and fresh fillets you'll get closer to the original, and marinating them will increase the likeness. I particularly think of onion-lemon-chili marinades as in the West African yassa dishes. (Dorade en yassa is yum.)

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Snapper/Sea Bream are mostly generic names and often interchangeable. True snapper are Lutjanidae, but there are plenty of Sparidae (Sea Bream/Porgies) that go under the name of "Snapper". Fish common names are very confused, especially in regards to naming fish after familiar European fish when setting up colonies around the world. Given the amount of fresh fish now being imported into Europe from African and Indo-Pacific waters, this is worth keeping in mind. Especially as certain dishes are not interchangable between the two groups if fish.

St Pierre is John Dory in France, so named because of the 'thumb print' (one wonders why not Mose's fish or why not name haddock St Peter's fish?), one type of Tilapia is found in the sea of Sea of Galilee and has also been called St Pierre for obvious reasons. No sure how recent this particular naming is and how much is marketing (non-Sea of Galilee species of tilapia as seem to be picking up the name).

This is the reason why the Atlantic wolffish is mostly sold as fillets BTW!

[emsny]

The late Alan Davidson's "North Atlantic Seafood" has already been cited - and everyone should get hold of a copy. But to complete the picture for someone working in France, it should be supplemented with the same author's "Mediterranean Seafood". The indexes in both works are exemplary and useful.

[Ptipois]

The late Alan Davidson's "North Atlantic Seafood" has already been cited - and everyone should get hold of a copy. But to complete the picture for someone working in France, it should be supplemented with the same author's "Mediterranean Seafood". The indexes in both works are exemplary and useful.

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I just had to order a new copy of this one. My first copy was more than twenty years old and, owing to the cheap paperback binding, unrecognizable as an object. Great books: I wish all food reference books were that well made, and such great reading. I am less impressed by Davidson's Southeast Asian seafood but it's because I have much less access to the described material. However it's still great help for the frozen food department of Asian markets.

[Ptipois]

This is the reason why the Atlantic wolffish is mostly sold as fillets BTW!

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Ouch, but I suppose those teeth are still pretty good for wearing on a gold chain on a hairy chest.

[ShoeBox Oven]

250 gr de sucre

1 pincée de sel

4 œufs

200 gr de noix de coco râpé

200 gr de farine

1 càc de poudre à lever

ou 5-6 fruits de la passion, pulpe détachée des coques avec une càc

(donne 1 ¼ dl)

1 ½ dl de jus d’ananas

Vous pouvez remplacer les fruits de la passion et le jus d’ananas, par :

2,5 dl de smoothie* ananas coco.

Travailler le sucre, les œufs et le sel dans une terrine jusqu’à ce que

la masse blanchisse.

Mélanger avec le coco, la farine, la poudre à lever.

Ajouter les fruits de la passion et le jus d’ananas passé au tamis.

Ou avec le smoothie ananas –coco que vous pouvez trouver chez coop*.

Remplir une moule préparé. (beurré ou recouvert de papier four)

Préchauffer le four à 180°C.

Cuisson : env. 65 minutes dans la moitié inférieure du four.

Sortir du four, laisser tiédir, démouler, laisser refroidir sur une grille.

Pour un cake encore plus gourmand, passez la surface avec de la confiture

d’abricots (avec un pinceau ), et saupoudrez de sucre en grains

http://free-cuisine.over-blog.com/article-3281430.html

[mkayahara]

It's not the best-written recipe in the world (for instance, I would preheat the oven before mixing the baking powder in with the wet ingredients, and it says granulated sugar, but the image on the page looks more like powdered sugar to me), but this is roughly what it says:

250g sugar

1 pinch salt

4 eggs

200g grated coconut

200g flour

1 tsp. baking powder

or 5-6 passionfruits, pulp removed from the shells with a teaspoon

(yields 125ml)

150ml pineapple juice

You can replace the passionfruit and pineapple juice with:

250ml pineapple-coconut smoothie*.

Beat the sugar, eggs and salt in a terrine until the mixture lightens in colour.

Mix with the coconut, flour and baking powder.

Add the passionfruit pulp and pineapple juice, strained through a sieve.

Or with the pineapple-coconut smoothie that you can find at coop*.

Fill a prepared mold. (Buttered or lined with parchment.)

Preheat the oven to 180°C (350F).

Cook for approx. 65 minutes in the lower half of the oven.

Remove from the oven, cool slightly, unmold, let cool completely on a rack.

For an even more gourmet cake, brush the surface with apricot jam (using a pastry brush), and sprinkle with granulated sugar.

[xdrixn]

I could, but try this:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

[chefcyn]

Here's yet another Translator:

Dictionary.com

[chefcyn]

Here's the ingredients list with conversion to US ounces (weight not volume at the top, volume for the liquids)

250 gr de sucre 8 oz sugar

1 pincée de sel a pinch of salt

4 œufs 4 eggs

200 gr de noix de coco râpé 7 oz coconut

200 gr de farine 7 oz of flour

1 càc de poudre à lever 1 tsp baking powder

ou 5-6 fruits de la passion, pulpe détachée des coques avec une càc

(donne 1 ¼ dl) 5-6 passion fruits (4 oz(volume) passion fruit puree)

1 ½ dl de jus d’ananas 5 oz (volume) pineapple juice

fat:10g

protein 4g

carbs 28 g

calories: 215

preheat to 350F

[ShoeBox Oven]

Thank you much!

[BarbaraY]

During a recent tour in Italy I purchased a magazine, Cucinare Bene.

I can usually translate the recipes but this one boggles me because it isn't in my dictionary nor any of the translation sites.

"Mondate il songino dalle radichette".

Any help would be appreciated.

TIA

Edited April 26, 2008 by BarbaraY (log)

[divina]

I believe it is lambs ear lettuce and says to cut off the roots!

It is usually sold with it's tiny roots attached.

[BarbaraY]

That makes sense since it is a recipe for Shrimp and Avocado salad.

Thank you.

[Man]

I believe it is lambs ear lettuce and says to cut off the roots!

It is usually sold with it's tiny roots attached.

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That's correct. When you buy it, songino is sometimes used as synonimous with 'valeriana', but I'm not sure about the botanical correctness of the usage. And to complicate things there's also 'valerianella'...

[roger desmond]

Hello! A chef from Italy gave me a recipe for pesto, written as percentages (which don't even add up to 100!)

Below his, I tried to convert to about enough pesto to cover about 1lb. of pasta or spelt. Does my conversion seem correct?

From the Italian:

Pesto sauce

30 to 35 percent basil

three percent garlic

10 to 12 percent pine nuts

20 to 22 percent parmigiano reggiano, grated

five percent pecorino cheese, grated

one percent salt

24 to 26 percent extra virgin olive oil

Translated into American:

Pesto sauce

Three bunches basil

Two cloves garlic

Five tablespoons pine nuts

Three quarters cup parmigiano reggiano, grated

One quarter cup pecorino cheese, grated

One teaspoon salt

One cup extra virgin olive oil