Lion's Head Meatballs

[jo-mel]

This is a dish I really enjoy. I have had it many times in many places, and aside from the different slant on the braising liquid, my question is about the meatballs themselves.

Joe's Shanghai in NYC's Chinatown has a good one as did Ocean King in Livingston NJ. Today I took the dish 'out' from Hunan Cottage, tasted it, and they were also wonderful.

I've had it twice at China 46, but the meatballs there were simply meatballs. They lacked that "Je ne sais quoi" -----that special texture that I associate with this dish. I've made them at home, several times, and have not yet achieved the spongy texture that seems to be their hallmark.

Doing research on the recipe, I have come across several different suggestions in making the actual meatball. (I'm talking just about the meatball here, not the braising liquid.)

Several recipes said to mix the meat wiith a wooden spoon, and only in one direction. I understand the reasons for the one direction policy (to keep fibers from 'frizzing'), but does that make the meatball spongy?

Another says to mix the meat mixture for 4 to 5 minutes, while another recipe says not to overmix. !!!!!?????

Several recipes say to take the entire meat mix and to throw it forcibly on the counter or on the sides of the mixing bowl. Only one recipe said that this removes air pockets.

The flavorings to the meat mixture are pretty much the same. Some call for egg in the mix, some don't, and one called for a little cooked rice.

I am going to be making this dish next month and I want to capture that texture.

Any suggestions?

[pjs]

Never made it, never eaten it, but I do have a recipe for it by V. Lee. Let me know if you'd like it to further confuse things.

PJ

[Dejah]

  I've made them at home, several times, and have not yet achieved the spongy texture that seems to be their hallmark.

jo-mel,

The Lion's Head meatballs, are they made from beef or pork? One recipe I have in my Immigrant cookbook uses pork only. I have never made them. I DO make steamed beef balls like those served at dim sum, and they ARE spongy. I do beat the mixture, in

my Kitchen Aid with paddles.

When you said "fibres from frizzing"...do you mean "thread-like" texture? I was always taught that when the mixture has "threads" that will make the meat spongy.

In the beef balls, I think the cornstarch and waterchestnut flour helps with the spongy texture. I can't remember whether I ever posted the recipe. If you want it, let me know and i will post same.

[Gary Soup]

Dejah, they are always pork, and sometimes (especially in Shanghai) have crab added (maybe three parts pork to one part crab). I think of the texture as "airy", rather than "spongy", which makes me think of the horribly chewy beef balls in Cantonese dim sum. I suspect that a lot of beating helps, and the egg.

[wesza]

Dejah, they are always pork, and sometimes (especially in Shanghai) have crab added (maybe three parts pork to one part crab). I think of the texture as "airy", rather than "spongy", which makes me think of the horribly chewy beef balls in Cantonese dim sum. I suspect that a lot of beating helps, and the egg.

Gary:

If your willing to try the ultimate "Chewy Bouncy Meatballs" then treat yourself to some Vietnamese ones. They even have a Special Machine that actually bangs up and compresses the meat into a paste.

The lightness in the "Lions Head" is from the mixture of Eggs, Corn Starch and some Pork/Chicken Broth that mixed with the Fresh Ground/Chopped Pork.

Irwin

[aprilmei]

It's also important that the pork has a lot of fat. I've made lion's head before and used pork belly - I cut off the skin and some of the top layer of fat, then hand chopped the rest. It's a lot of work but the texture is so much better.

[Jon Tseng]

It's also important that the pork has a lot of fat. I've made lion's head before and used pork belly - I cut off the skin and some of the top layer of fat, then hand chopped the rest. It's a lot of work but the texture is so much better.

Agreed. I suspect a lot of the secret to the "sloppy" texture is lots of fat

the same is true of shanghai dumplings; you think that tasty broth all comes from adding jellied stock? Think again!

cheerio

J

Edited February 20, 2004 by Jon Tseng (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

jo-mel -- just to add one more local place for you to try Lion Head Meatballs at: Beijing Duck House, 359 S Washington Ave, Bergenfield. That was one of the few dishes I had there that I preferred to C46's version. But you have to really convince them that you don't want american chinese food.

Once you do come up with a working recipe, please post it to RecipeGullet.

[Dejah]

Dejah, they are always pork, and sometimes (especially in Shanghai) have crab added (maybe three parts pork to one part crab).  I think of the texture as "airy", rather than "spongy", which makes me think of the horribly chewy beef balls in Cantonese dim sum.  I suspect that a lot of beating helps, and the egg.

Gary,

I know what you mean about chewy Cantonese dim sum meat balls

This recipe I use is more like what you called "airy". It actually calls for 4 parts lean beef, to be minced, plus 1 part pork fat, egg white, etc, etc. The beating really makes the difference.

[Gary Soup]

Another says to mix the meat mixture for 4 to 5 minutes, while another recipe says not to overmix.  !!!!!?????

Several recipes say to take the entire meat mix and to throw it forcibly on the counter or on the sides of the mixing bowl.  Only one recipe said that this removes air pockets.

The flavorings to the meat mixture are pretty much the same. Some call for egg in the mix, some don't, and one called for a little cooked rice.

I think the point is that you want air in the mixture, but also want grain (and I don't mean rice!) The egg is probably essential for the fluffiness. If you're careful about the mixing, I don't think there should be a problem with air "pockets".

[jo-mel]

Never made it, never eaten it, but I do have a recipe for it by V. Lee. Let me know if you'd like it to further confuse things. 

PJ

Thanks for the offer, but one of my problems is that I have TOOOOO many recipes for this dish!! Too much of a good thing sort of situation! LOL!

Virginia Lee's recipe calls for pork belly --- (not many of them do) so when I start expirimenting, I think I will use her recipe as one of my tests.

[trillium]

I doubt the banging against the side of the bowl serves to remove air pockets. It's how the parnter learned how to do wonton filling and when you don't do it the texture is less tender or fluffy and more solid. If I were to make an educated guess, I'd guess that the mechanical force just breaks down some of the proteins in the meat and serves to allow the mixture to be more of a complete amalgam of stuff which can retain/emulsify the fat and liquid rather then a mix of seperate parts.

Chewiness in other sorts of meatballs, like many things/textures in cuisine, can be an acquired taste to someone not accustomed to encountering it on their plate, but I'd hardly call it horrible!

regards,

trillium

[jo-mel]

  I've made them at home, several times, and have not yet achieved the spongy texture that seems to be their hallmark.

jo-mel,

The Lion's Head meatballs, are they made from beef or pork? One recipe I have in my Immigrant cookbook uses pork only. I have never made them. I DO make steamed beef balls like those served at dim sum, and they ARE spongy. I do beat the mixture, in

my Kitchen Aid with paddles.

When you said "fibres from frizzing"...do you mean "thread-like" texture? I was always taught that when the mixture has "threads" that will make the meat spongy.

In the beef balls, I think the cornstarch and waterchestnut flour helps with the spongy texture. I can't remember whether I ever posted the recipe. If you want it, let me know and i will post same.

They are made from pork.

Wrong choice of words with 'frizzy'. What I meant was keeping the fibers going the same way.

I have a little card with 2 notes on it about stirring in the same direction. (Don't know where I picked up these tips)

One says:

1. Evenness of texture

2. Eliminates air spaces.

3 ?Superstition?

The other:

"Stirring shrimp paste in 1 direction creates even texture and eliminates air spaces. Result is homogenous elastic mixture. Do not change direction, for that would create rough spots with pockets of air -- undoing earlier work."

When I start testing, I'm going to have one part of the mix stirred in one direction and the other all jumbly! The hardest part wil be to remember which is which!!

[jo-mel]

It's also important that the pork has a lot of fat. I've made lion's head before and used pork belly - I cut off the skin and some of the top layer of fat, then hand chopped the rest. It's a lot of work but the texture is so much better.

That might be te secret. The Chinese butcher I go to has different grades and leanness of pork. I might try the one with the biggest % of fat.

I will be using this recipe in a cooking class, and the thing I have to keep in mind is that everyone will not want to buy pork belly and grind/chop it. The last time I made them in a class, everyone loved them ----- but ME!

So I'm doing this research both for my own self, but also for others who don''t want to fuss. If the fatter pork mix does it, then that will be good for them --- but I want the ones that have that nice airy, light texture, and if it takes pork belly, then I use pork belly.

The last time I used pork belly, everyone went EEUUUUUU when they saw it, but when it was put into Double Fried Pork, they had a new respect! LOL!

[tissue]

You should use shao shing marinated in fresh ginger. Yes it is only made of pork. I have it eating it made with some crab and crab roe and it is YUMMERS.

To make it soft, some restaurants have told me they add a little bit of extra soft tofu to the meat. When cooked, you are not supposed to be able to discern. Ease up on the cornstarch.

The one direction thing is correct.

Very finely mince some scallions to mix in.

You are traditionally supposed to make them in a sha guo, which is a clay pot and stew them with broth in napa cabbage.

Edited February 21, 2004 by tissue (log)

[tommy]

given the wonderful texture of lion's head meatballs, should the "one direction" rule be applied to pretty much every meatball?

[jo-mel]

You should use shao shing marinated in fresh ginger. Yes it is only made of pork. I have it eating it made with some crab and crab roe and it is YUMMERS.

To make it soft, some restaurants have told me they add a little bit of extra soft tofu to the meat. When cooked, you are not supposed to be able to discern. Ease up on the cornstarch.

The one direction thing is correct.

Very finely mince some scallions to mix in.

You are traditionally supposed to make them in a sha guo, which is a clay pot and stew them with broth in napa cabbage.

That's interesting about the tofu. The last Lion's Head I had - yesterday - it appeared that the balls were roughly formed -- not packed firmly in a round ball. I take it, because of their appearance, that the mixture was rather loose.

I do use clay pots for all my 'stew' dishes. I love those pots and have several sizes - even a teeny weeny one about 3' across and 1'+ high. (Just a conversation piece.) The sandy pots make a nice presentation -- aside from just being plain practical.

I usually use napa cabbage. I see many recipes and pictures with young bok choy. I guess the green makes the picture prettier!

[jo-mel]

given the wonderful texture of lion's head meatballs, should the "one direction" rule be applied to pretty much every meatball?

I see the 'same direction' in many books, but few give reasons for doing so. I guess they do as they were taught and just pass it on.

I've made Pearl Balls many times and have always liked them. Then, a couple of years ago, I picked some up in a Kam Man Supermarket- at one of those 'prepared food counters'. I almost flipped at how good they were! The same texture as good Lion's Heads. I've never had them like that.

Barbara Tropp's "Modern Art-----" has a recipe for them that sounds like the mix is quite loose -- and she steams them for up to 2 hours!!!! I usually do the usual 30 minutes. maybe she (bless her) was onto something. I've never used her recipe, but next time-----maybe.

[Gary Soup]

Barbara Tropp's "Modern Art-----" has a recipe for them that sounds like the mix is quite loose -- and she steams them for up to 2 hours!!!!

I'll see your two hours and raise you one....

Three Hour Shizitou Recipe

[Gary Soup]

I usually use napa cabbage. I see many recipes and pictures with young bok choy. I guess the green makes the picture prettier!

That would be qing cai (Shanghai bok choy), most places I've had it.

[pjs]

Any type of cabbage would work in this dish I would think. Napa, Chinese, bok choy, etc.

One recipe I've found uses spinach and translucent noodles as the accompaniment.

We need to focus on the meatballs, folks. For jo-mel's sake.

PJ

[jo-mel]

Barbara Tropp's "Modern Art-----" has a recipe for them that sounds like the mix is quite loose -- and she steams them for up to 2 hours!!!!

I'll see your two hours and raise you one....

Three Hour Shizitou Recipe

Actually, the 2 hours were for Pearl Balls, ------but 3 hours for Shizi Tou??!!! Wow! That really would give a melding of flavors!

Most of the recipes call for Napa Cabbage, but some of the pictures have a greener leaf, and a white stalk. Hunan Cottage used squares of Napa, while C46 used whole/half leaf and stalk of what appeared to be Bok Choy (Xiao Bai Cai). I'm not sure if they had the light green of Shanghai Bok Choy, but it might have been --- seeing it is a Shanghai Restaurant.

[tissue]

I've had it in a soup form, a clear broth, with pea sprouts floating in the broth.

[Gary Soup]

Most of the recipes call for Napa Cabbage, but some of the pictures have a greener leaf, and a white stalk.  Hunan Cottage used squares of Napa, while C46 used whole/half leaf and stalk of what appeared to be Bok Choy (Xiao Bai Cai). I'm not sure if they had the light green of Shanghai Bok Choy, but it might have been --- seeing it is a Shanghai Restaurant.

It's all kind of academic. The greenery is more for adornment and color contrast than anything else, and I've seen it with both qing cai and Napa cabbage, and with no greenery. Cantonese bok choy is something that is seldom encountered in the dish's home region (my wife has never used it in anything) whereas qing cai (a.k.a. Shanghai Bok Choy) is pretty much an everday vegetable in those parts.

Actually, my wife once used iceberg lettuce, which makes as good a "mane" for the lions' heads as anything else, and holds its crunchiness remarkably well in liquid.

[aprilmei]

Another thing I've done when making these - I don't steam them, I shallow-fry the meatballs to "set" the outside then finish the cooking by simmering in the broth (and yes, as tissue says, I always cook it in a clay pot). I also like to add fried pine kernels (aka pine nuts) to give a little crunch. Pine kernels are not completely out of place - they're harvested in China and if you buy pine kernels in a Chinese supermarket, they're much cheaper than in other grocery stores.