Lion's Head Meatballs

[Gary Soup]

Pine kernels are not completely out of place - they're harvested in China and if you buy pine kernels in a Chinese supermarket, they're much cheaper than in other grocery stores.

They're definitely not out of place. They are used in a number of northern Chinese dishes, notably in the sauce that tops "Squirrel Fish" (songshu guiyu).

Costco has pine nuts at a good price but they come in large bags (2.5 lbs., I think) and are likely to get stale before you can ever use them up.

[wesza]

Dejah, they are always pork, and sometimes (especially in Shanghai) have crab added (maybe three parts pork to one part crab).  I think of the texture as "airy", rather than "spongy", which makes me think of the horribly chewy beef balls in Cantonese dim sum.  I suspect that a lot of beating helps, and the egg.

Gary:

If your willing to try the ultimate "Chewy Bouncy Meatballs" then treat yourself to some Vietnamese ones. They even have a Special Machine that actually bangs up and compresses the meat into a paste.

The lightness in the "Lions Head" is from the mixture of Eggs, Corn Starch and some Pork/Chicken Broth that mixed with the Fresh Ground/Chopped Pork.

Irwin

Just thought I'd share some observations regarding many of the posts regarding the "Lions Head" Meatball recipes and preparation.

We found out thru experience that often for no obvious reason when Chinese/Italian Parsley was added to the recipe sometimes it would cause the Meatballs to have a pinkish color even though cooked properly.

We had no problems with Fresh Ginger, Garlic or other seasoning being added for taste for various Restaurants.

In serving this dish in Hong Kong adding Bread Crumbs or any filler to Meatballs was something generally not done as customers were very astute to most conventional dishes being tampered with in preparation.

It wasn't unusual to serve several hundred orders daily at places that became popular for their "Lions Head" Meatballs especially where offered at Lunch.

Irwin

[jo-mel]

We found out thru experience that often for no obvious reason when Chinese/Italian Parsley was added to the recipe sometimes it would cause the Meatballs to have a pinkish color even though cooked properly.

We had no problems with Fresh Ginger, Garlic or other seasoning being added for taste for various Restaurants.

In serving this dish in Hong Kong adding Bread Crumbs or any filler to Meatballs was something generally not done as customers were very astute to most conventional dishes being tampered with in preparation.

It wasn't unusual to serve several hundred orders daily at places that became popular for their "Lions Head" Meatballs especially where offered at Lunch.

Irwin

I've noticed that 'pink' color when it is obvious that the meatballa are totally cooked. I wonder what the parsley is reacting to? I think, when I do my testing, I'm going to include the 'parsley' factor.

About the pine nuts -----They sure ARE cheaper in Asian stores!

I use them with Squirrel Fish, too, and also with Lettuce Wraps. (Squirrel Fish is my favorite dish for dramatic fish presentation. It tastes good too! I keep them in my freezer and they seem fine, even after a long while. Could rancidity occur under freezing conditions?

[aprilmei]

Pine kernels are not completely out of place - they're harvested in China and if you buy pine kernels in a Chinese supermarket, they're much cheaper than in other grocery stores.

They're definitely not out of place. They are used in a number of northern Chinese dishes, notably in the sauce that tops "Squirrel Fish" (songshu guiyu).

Costco has pine nuts at a good price but they come in large bags (2.5 lbs., I think) and are likely to get stale before you can ever use them up.

I didn't mean they were out of place in Chinese cooking, but I've never seen them before in lion's head.

and Jo-Mel, I also freeze pine kernels and they seem fine.

[jo-mel]

I know pine nuts come from all over the world, but in China, I see that they were found in the 4000-5000BC levels of the Yangshao excavations. (Simoons)

What I would like to know is who shells these little puppies! I've seen the pine cones with the little seeds nestled inside, and those shells are HARD!

I love their texture -- either fried or unfried.

[wesza]

jo-mel:

I should have previously mentioned the one factor thats important with two of my favorite types of balls.

For both "Lions Head" Meatballs and Jewish "Matzoh Balls" there is one step that always should be followed to enhance the ligtness and fluffy character of the Balls.

Always after you've made your mixture before forming into the Balls allow it enough time to set in the coldest part of your refrigerator. Once it been set and completely chilled then take out only as much as you intend to cook, form into balls and cook immediately. You're always better off if the Balls are still quite cold when starting the cooking process. They shouldn't be standing around before cooking, thats why you make them in batches.

Hope this helps to make your Lions Heads Roar.

Irwin

[jo-mel]

<<<<<Always after you've made your mixture before forming into the Balls allow it enough time to set in the coldest part of your refrigerator. Once it been set and completely chilled then take out only as much as you intend to cook, form into balls and cook immediately. You're always better off if the Balls are still quite cold when starting the cooking process. They shouldn't be standing around before cooking, thats why you make them in batches.>>>>>

Wesza -- That seems to make sense, in the matter of having a chilled mix, which will handle better when making the balls. Chilling the mix makes it firmer -- and it sounds as tho the Lion's Head mixture is a little looser than other ground mixes. Are there other reasons for this -- other than making forming the balls easier?

To be honest -- When I've made them before, and have done them in my cooking classes, I never tried to attain that special texture. I just used the recipe as an example of say-----a clay pot dish, or to illustrate Hong Shao/Red Cooking, or regional cooking.

I have a class coming up with Shanghai cooking as a highlight. I want to use Lion's Head Meatballs as an example of that region, and so I want them to be just right.

I really appreciate your input and the hints from others.

[wesza]

Jo-Mei:

I'd like to recommend for your Cooking class several standard Shanganise items that are fun, interesting and unique to the region.

Shanghai Cold Jellied Lamb

Drunken Crabs [use Female Blue Pincher Crabs]

Yung Chow Fried Rice [this was the only fried rice popular in Shanghai]

Fried Thin Bean Curd Skin Rolled with Various Filling served in Broth

Small Rolls stuffed with Ham and Vegetable Egg Potato Salad served warm from the Oven [street Food Pan-Asian?] very popular from Hawkers in the Winter.

There are many more but these were all very popular and served everywhere in Shanghai that were imported into the Hong Kong Restaurants.

I've never seem the Shanghai style Congee being served with all the pickled or savory side dishes in West Coast Restaurants but it is certainly different then any of the Southern, Taiwan or Peking type dishes.

We have a few Shanghai restaurants in Seattle but they all are upper Market adaptations. I miss the traditional regular restaurants and especially the night supper places so popular in Hong Kong.

Irwin

[Dejah]

We found out thru experience that often for no obvious reason when Chinese/Italian Parsley was added to the recipe sometimes it would cause the Meatballs to have a pinkish color even though cooked properly.

I've noticed that 'pink' color when it is obvious that the meatballa are totally cooked. I wonder what the parsley is reacting to? I think, when I do my testing, I'm going to include the 'parsley' factor.

Aha! So it's the parsley's fault!

I have had that experience. Took out the meat balls after 15 minutes of steaming, and the inside looked pink and uncooked. Tried more steaming, no change, but the texture told me they were cooked!

jo-mel,

Please let us know the results of the "parsley factor" after your testing.

[jo-mel]

Wesza - "I'd like to recommend for your Cooking class several standard Shanganise items that are fun, interesting and unique to the region."

Those are things I would like, but most people who take these classes don't want to delve deeply into what is beyond the usual Chinese menu. They want basics. Even some of the Chinese people I have in the classes want the basics!!

When I've done Eastern Regional Chinese food, in the past, I've had Yang Chao Fried Rice, (some wanted it soy darkened!) and have used rice wine sediment paste, have made Shanghai Duck, Hong Shaos and so on. Mostly I use any regional cooking to illustrate a form of cooking, or introduce a special flavoring. (for instance steaming and deep/frying for the Shanghai Duck, and using the sediment paste.)

Some of those who take my classes want to really get into new things, some want the tried and true, some want to only work with what they can find in their supermarket, and some want a night out. ((((((sigh))))))

The classes are good for learning techniques. My most popular are basic stir/frying, and dim sum - where all is hands-on. I use regional foods to give variety and to make it interesting for me!

The classes next month will include WuXi Ribs, XingCai in Cream Sauce, the Lion's Head and something else that I have not decided on.

Since we have 2 great Shanghai Restaurants here in Northern NJ, I thought the slant on Shanghai might get them to try these places. Maybe some banal tastes might be stimulated.

I've found that those who have visited China are more willing to try something not usually found here. There is great satisfaction in seeing someone appreciating a dish for its content and not just something to put on top of rice.

Ham/vegetables/egg/potato salad??? In a roll from the oven?? Interesting!

[Dejah]

jo-mel,

I was wondering if you did any updates on the parsley factor on meatballs?

I was planning to make some for our students' international food fair. I will not be there to explain the "pinkness" to all the people, and definitely do not want to see all my meatballs in the garbage!

[jo-mel]

jo-mel,

I was wondering if you did any updates on the parsley factor on meatballs?

I was planning to make some for our students' international food fair. I will not be there to explain the "pinkness" to all the people, and definitely do not want to see all my meatballs in the garbage!

Saturday is the day for my experimenting. My classes are next week. I will try to test several recipes, and promise to follow up.

[jo-mel]

Just a follow-up on the meatballs, ----seeking that wonderful soft texture.

I used recipes from 4 books.

Craig Claiborne called for pork belly and crushed cornflakes. I figured the cornflakes weren't traditional, so I used his recipe minus them, and made it half pork belly, half fatty pork, no egg, seasons, and stirred in one direction only. They were soft and good, but #4 in rating. (BTW, trying to grind pork belly is a b----!)

#3 rating was from the Chinese Restaurant CB. I used the same fatty pork, no egg, seasoning, and stirred in one direction only. I deviated from the recipe by adding parsley to see if I could make a pink color. They also came out nice and soft, and I thought I could detect a bit of pink. Not much and not as much as I've seen in meatballs I've had in restaurants.

From Calvin Lee's Gourmet Regional, I used fatty pork, egg, the seasonings and stirred in one direction only. These had a better texture than the other two and were good, and rated next to best.

The best were from Wei Chuan Shanghai Style. Again the fatty pork, an egg, stirred on one direction , but these I beat against the sides of the bowl a few times. They had the best texture of all.

The stirring in one direction was just long enough to mix the ingredients and untill the meat started to hold together. No longer.

I have many other recipes in my books for this dish, but I had to limit it somewhere.

The final mix was: to 1 pound of pork, an egg, 2 Tbsp. soy, 1 Tb. Shaoxing wine, 1 tsp. sesame oil, 1 tsp. ginger, 1 tsp. of sugar and pepper about 1/4 tsp. This is not exactly the recipe in the book. My quest was not the flavor, but the texture.

Some were more firm than others because the amount of liquid in the mix, or because of the cornstarch in the mix.

But all were good. I figure the stirring may have made the difference, and the two best had egg in the mix.

I'm sick of looking at, and tasting Lion's Head Meatballs!! LOL!

[jo-mel]

P.S. --- I still haven't figured out that pink color.

Dejah -- If you are looking for meatballs for students, these can be made in small balls -- better for a crowd. But I also have a recipe for meatballs that I've adapted from two recipes. They are a sweet/sour type, but Chinese S&S -- not the cloyingly sweet stuff, and they are a hit where ever I take them. Everyone wants to know what the sauce is and are surprised when I tell them it is simply sugar, vinegar, soy, water, and sesame oil.

[Dejah]

jo-mel,

I made your recipe for Pearl Balls for my students' international food fair.

The first batch I made, I mixed by hand, stirring in one direction with a wooden spoon. My Mom said they were good, but I thought they were a little mushy rather than soft.

Yesterday, I made my second batch, same recipe except a little less Chinese mushrooms as I found the first ones a bit overpowering. This time, I used my KitchenAide, with the paddles. I "beat" on low speed until everything was mixed up. These were better texture, soft but not mushy.

I took a chafer of 70 meatballs...nestled on a bed of fresh lettuce (not steamed).

They looked great and were gone in no time flat! As we don't have any dim sum in our small city, the Chinese students loved the treat. Thanks for the great recipe.

I may try out the "parsley factor" with my beef ball recipe this weekend.

[trillium]

I hope you have one of those scoop tools for cookie dough...I use them for portioning meat fillings for dumplings or meat balls and they work really well. I can't imagine doing 80 by hand!

regards,

trillium

[helenas]

Lion's Head meatballs were reinterpreted in today's food section of SF Chronicle.

The recipe looked quite nice and i changed it a bit: no turkey, and scallops in small dice instead of shredded crabmeat, also some jalapeno and cilantro whizzed with scallions. Very very nice.

[...tm...]

I'm glad I came upon this thread and found that others have been experiencing the same pink Lion's Head meatballs that I have. I do use cilantro in my recipe, and will have to make a cilantro-free ball to check out the hypothesis next time.

In general, pink, cooked meat occurs because the myoglobin, a major protein in muscle that is used to store oxygen, has something bound in its heme group that keeps it in the oxygen bound conformation. In its oxygen-bound conformation it appears red, but if the oxygen is used (or released upon heating) it is no longer red. Other small molecules can take the place of the oxygen. This is why smoked meat can be pink or have a red "smoke ring". The carbon monoxide in smoke binds the heme in myoglobin. Nitric oxide in cured meats also binds the heme resulting in the pink color. I’d be interested in what substance in cilantro binds myoglobin. After googling it, it seems that cilantro is often recommended by herbalists to remove heavy metal poisoning, which might relate to heme binding properties. Anyway, it looks like we should all be using plenty of cilantro, as I know many studies have shown it also has antimicrobial properties.

[stephenc]

To give the meatballs its texture, you want to stir in one direction only, vigorously, with chopsticks, for at leat 4-5 minutes.

Chopsticks help to bust up the meat a lot better than a spoon would.

That's it.

ps. These aren't muffins or biscuits. There is no damage done by 'overmixing'.

Edited June 2, 2005 by stephenc (log)

[Dejah]

To give the meatballs its texture, you want to stir in one direction only, vigorously, with chopsticks, for at leat 4-5 minutes.

Chopsticks help to bust up the meat a lot better than a spoon would.

That's it.

ps.  These aren't muffins or biscuits.  There is no damage done by 'overmixing'.

←

I can't imagine these yummy meatballs without cilantro...Pulled some out from the freezer for supper last night after reading this post.

I use my KitchenAid with the flat paddle to mix my meat mixture. Chopsticks are a bit useless when I am working with 4-5 lbs of meat!

The root of the cilantro is believed to reduce and prevent high blood pressure. It seems to work in my family as I am the only one who loves and eats alot of this herb fresh, especially the root part. Of my parents and my 3 siblings, I am the only one not on high blood pressure medication.

[Pan]

Sue-On, I want to hear more about cilantro root. You buy it and eat it raw? Does it taste more like the leaves or the seeds?

[Dejah]

Pan,

I only get the cilantro roots when my "Chinese aunties" bring them to me...in about another week or so. The plants reseed themselves so there is always a good supply in the spring. The cilantro I find in the produce sections are always just leaves and stalks.

I've never thought to compare their flavour to leaves or seeds. I will try to do that next time. Usually I am just so pleased to get them, I just gorge.

The medicinal "fact" is just what my qi-gong teacher tells me. I believe most of what he says. He also tells me that Chinese mushrooms reduce bad cholestrol.

[Ben Hong]

Sue-On, I live in the sticks and our Superstore (Loblaws) and Sobeys mostly bring in whole, roots and all, cilantro.

Tree ears and cloud ears also reduce cholesterol and reduce blood pressure...so I am told.

[jo-mel]

A funny story about tree ear mushrooms and cholesterol.

I had a friend in one of my cooking classes - a surgeon, who used to kid me about my interest in whole food and medicinals. and all that natural stuff We were using tree ear mushrooms in the class and I told him about something I had read ----about a man in Sichuan Province who had a very low choesterol, in spite of what he ate. His history included his love for wood/tree/whatever mushrooms, and they found thru his blood studies. that the mushrooms did , in fact, affect his cholesterol levels.

My friend scoffed at the whole idea. But shortly after that , there was an article about the health effects, in the New England Journal of Medicine ----- the physicians Bible! My friend shut up!

[Dejah]

My s-i-l gave me a big bundle of fresh cilantro, roots, dirt, everything in tact.

However, the plants were pretty young so the roots were not big enough to really have distinctive flavour. Will keep trying, Pan!