Do you want insults with that?

[tommy]

we should note that Project is a long-time member of egullet, and generally has thoughtful and interesting posts. i'm just hoping we don't slip into treating him like a troll or trouble-maker, as he's not. although this stuff *is* pretty funny.

Edited January 29, 2004 by tommy (log)

[cdh]

Isn't Hopewell Junction in NY?

I know that Hopewell is just outside of Princeton... as is Princeton Junction... I'm guessing that geographical nomenclature phenomena like that are localized, so Hopewell Junction should be someplace close to Hopewell.

[melkor]

Isn't Hopewell Junction in NY?

I know that Hopewell is just outside of Princeton... as is Princeton Junction... I'm guessing that geographical nomenclature phenomena like that are localized, so Hopewell Junction should be someplace close to Hopewell.

There's a Hopewell NJ, and a Hopewell Junction NY - I can't find any reference to a Hopewell Junction NJ (not that this has anything to do with project making 16 year old girls blush)

[cdh]

If so, seek out a Wawa.  They've very recently installed touch screen ordering devices at all their deli counters.  That way you can order a good and tasty hoagie or other deli sandwich, and never have to trade words with a potentially insolent human being.

Yikes!

It is actually a really good system that allows the deli people behind the counter to concentrate on making the sandwiches rather than having to take orders, write them up and then make sandwiches. It also has the benefit for the orderer of displaying all possible sandwich ingredients as buttons, thereby facilitating new and interesting combo creations. You've got the POS terminal in front of you, and can do your own additions/deletions.

[cdh]

Isn't Hopewell Junction in NY?

I know that Hopewell is just outside of Princeton... as is Princeton Junction... I'm guessing that geographical nomenclature phenomena like that are localized, so Hopewell Junction should be someplace close to Hopewell.

There's a Hopewell NJ, and a Hopewell Junction NY - I can't find any reference to a Hopewell Junction NJ (not that this has anything to do with project making 16 year old girls blush)

OK. No Wawas for him, then. too bad. Anybody in NY know of any delis that have automated order taking devices?

Edited January 29, 2004 by cdh (log)

[robsimons]

Project,

I only got two things to say...

1. If you get insulted when people interrupt you then you must be a total mass of insulted-ness. I mean every time you do anything people are going to interrupt you that’s LIFE. Why limit this to fast food places, I’m sure it happens at your work, home, hell even when you go to Starbucks. And how many times has your server in a non-fast food place interrupted your conversation to ask you if you want another drink? Or you snapped your fingers to get the attention of a server who was engrossed in a conversation with another person? I’m sure they felt insulted. Get over yourself, it’s just how people are, period.

2. Cut those people working at the fast food places some slack. Somebody has to work there, whether they like it or not. I don’t see you looking for a job athe local MacD’s to help improve the customer service. If you got a problem write the corporation. MacD’s/Wendy’s are of the few fast food joints that do listen to there customers? When was the last time you filled out the customer survey on your table. All I see from you Project is a person who thinks they are better (in some way) than the people behind the counters. They are just working for a living, abet a minimum wage, just like you.

If you just relaxed a bit and go with the flow I think you might be a happier person.

[trillium]

Oh, c'mon! I don't even get an Honorable Mention for "Mackerel Snackerel?''

Chad

It was my favorite part of the whole thread. Damn, I wish they did have a Mackerel Snackerel, I love mackerel.

Execute my order indeed.

regards,

trillium

[project]

GordonCooks:

"Finally, someone has the courage to show how truly evil these people are. What about all the others?...Like Olive Garden ? I'm told as soon as you walk through the door, people are trying talk you into Italian food. I mean 'REALLY' What if you don't like italian food?"

Ah, come on! McDonald's will be loud in arguing that it is not necessary to order a Big Mac, large fries, and soft drink with sugar, that more careful selection from their menu can yield better nutrition. Similarly for Wendy's and Burger King.

Just going to a restaurant, including Olive Garden or ADNY, doesn't mean that we have to be eager to order just anything on the menu.

Jensen:

"In another industry, we used to call that "upselling"; it's a cornerstone of sales."

Saying "cornerstone" doesn't mean it isn't insulting. There is a lot that might be regarded as 'cornerstones' of sales that are among the most objectionable things in our society -- tele-marketing, spam, bait and switch, high pressure car sales, flaky medical advice at health food stores, etc.

"What I don't understand is this: you have been told by 'more than one shift supervisor' that this is a required practice at various fast food outlets. It obviously is something that bothers you, seemingly enough to make an issue out of it at every occurrence, and yet you continue to put yourself in what is clearly a confrontational situation for you.

Why don't you just stop patronising these restaurants? They're not going to stop asking if you want fries with that. They're not going to stop verifying whether you want cheese on your burger.

These aren't insults. They're sales techniques.

The obvious solution is to either accept it or stop going there! Simple..."

That they are "sales techniques" doesn't mean they aren't also insults! That others on eGullet are not insulted is interesting.

I am coming to agree with your simple solution. I was looking for a third option; that was one of the main reasons for this topic.

Writing out this material has clarified in my mind what is likely going on: Employees are ordered to ask about cheese and fries and either get sales or get explicit "No" answers. Nothing but nothing is a substitute: I can say "To go, that's all.", start out the order with "First, I'd just like to say that I want no cheese and no French fries", come in with a large printed sign saying "No cheese. No fries.", hire a sky writer to paint in the sky visible to the employees "No cheese. No fries.", give my order, and then, still, the questions will start: "Are those hamburgers with cheese?" and "Do you want fries with that?".

It's simple: Nothing in communications can be effective. No matter what I say or do, the employee will still ask about cheese and fries and refuse to execute the order until I answer.

beans:

"Then why do you continue to subject yourself to your self-defined 'insulting' situations?"

For "self-defined", curious that you would not find being interrupted and having what you clearly said ignored not insulting.

But why do I continue to go? Well, I have been avoiding them in the past and now fully intend to avoid them much more in the future. But for why I did continue to go:

First, the restaurants are very common. Out shopping, hungry, in a hurry, they are the obvious places to get something to eat.

Second, the situation is not uniform. In my area, about 25% of the fast food places do not insist that a customer decline cheese and fries. And at a given restaurant, the situation has been known to change. Indeed, in my area Burger King only recently started asking. The last time I was at a Burger King, the guy asked, I winced, he explained that he's supposed to ask, and I said "The reason I came here and not the Wendy's down the street was to avoid just that question.". I will try not to go back to that Burger King.

"Not having worked in fast food, but for a corporate restaurant chain, a standard script is the norm, as is asking about, say the cheese, because it might make that extra $.50 in sales -- or may have been inadvertently forgotten by either the order taker or order giver.

Throughout this thread I keep shaking my head with the resounding question: How is it insulting for the order taker to ask questions so as to make sure your order is correct??"

Inadvertently forget? I stand there under ideal audio conditions, excellent native speaker of American English, with careful and appropriate pacing, complete clarity of voice and articulation, no hesitation or doubts, give the order very explicitly, and from that there is some question about inadvertent forgetting?

Are they asking just to make sure an order is correct? Does this consideration have anything at all to do with it? Let's look at the data and see: They don't ask about the number of hamburgers, about a salad, about a dessert, about a bowl of chili, about mayonnaise or catsup on the hamburger, etc. All they ask about are cheese and fries. Period. And from this data you still believe that their interest is getting the order correct?

In pursuit of that extra $0.50 in sales, they have totally torqued me off. I've written McDonald's more than once. I started this thread. "Do you want fries with that?" has become a national joke. I've been willing to drive 20 miles to avoid these questions. I've walked out of restaurants.

I'm avoiding their restaurants like the plague and, thus, costing them orders of $10 one at a time, and their questions are still justified in pursuit of $0.50 in sales? Gee, they should take the next step and hire pick pockets.

"I am apathetic to your discomfort in the ordinary communication exchange between guest/customer and ordinary fast food employee."

They have at times been stressful situations, for employees, shift supervisors, and other customers. For me the stress is not such a concern. Still, the overall situation is not good, and I started this thread to look for a better solution.

"I can't even get started on the 'pretty girl' or the reducing these poor employees to tears aspects of your post(s)/opinion(s)/observation(s)/annoyance(s) that are to conjure up sympathetic support within this thread."

I'm not conjuring up anything but just explaining. There is no sympathy for me involved: The girl walked away in tears, and I have sympathy for the girl. I started the thread to get the views of others and to find a better solution. If I were after sympathy, I certainly would not have explained the stressful situations. The situation is not good.

You are ascribing unfavorable motives to me.

A good rule is to do business only where the business is wanted and where that desire is shown, in part, by "common courtesy". There are many ways for a vendor to show contempt for the customers. Customers should be warned and either leave or not return.

FistFullaRoux:

"The voice quality you hear at the order sign is the same thing I heard in the headphones. Add traffic noise and an engine running 2 feet from where you are, and it makes it very difficult to hear clearly. I would rather ask again than put the order together wrong. Throw in an unfamiliar accent, and it was just better in the long run to have them pull up to the window to get their order."

Sure, makes good sense. One reaction I have is, once they start asking questions over the speaker system indicating that they have some genuine doubt about what I said, I just say I will drive around and give the order to them in person. In a low traffic situation, there is no serious delay for this approach.

But, as I explained above, about all they ask about are just cheese and fries. Here, then, the motivation is just 'suggestive selling' and not getting orders correct.

For the cases I explained, Wendy's, McDonald's, and Burger King, I was speaking directly to the employee under nearly ideal audio conditions.

"Were they rude to interrupt you? Sure. A case could be made for that."

Well, for the case of the interruption, I was standing there my face at most three feet from that of the employee. So, all things considered, I believe that it was rude to interrupt. Had the context been over a possibly poor speaker system, auto engine noise, etc., sure, I would have been patient. In the cases I described, audio problems were not the issue, and this fact is part of why the questions were so objectionable.

"Many times, in order to satisfy the company line of 'No customer should wait more than xx seconds before being asked for their order' and 'Drive thru orders are to be fulfilled in xx seconds', I often greeted customers and took orders while not standing at the register. You would hope it was a simple order, because you were pulling drinks for the 3 cars in front of you, and checking the fries to see how much longer they would be. If it was a simple order, I knew the total without ringing it up, and could punch it in on my next trip by the register. If it was a no xx or xx with extra xx, I'd have to get to the register, and verify it with the customer. If someone else asked me a question while all this was happening, a complex order just floats away, and you have to try to reconstruct it when you get back to the register.

And this whole thread reminds me of the George Carlin 'AND A LARGE ORANGE DRINK' routine."

Except for some of the suggestive selling, you were just working hard to get the work done. I don't, nearly no one would, object to that.

Because in the cases I cited, all three -- Wendy's, McDonald's, and Burger King -- I was in ideal audio conditions with the employee not distracted and still got the questions, it was clear that no order could be given clear enough to avoid questions. So, no matter how clear I was, what I said would be ignored and I would have to decline cheese and fries. Being ignored is insulting.

Haven't seen Carlin's skit. Yes, since "Do you want fries with that?" has become famous, a SNL or Mad TV skit could be made of this. Could be really funny as the desperate owners and shift supervisors go to really extreme lengths to sell that last slice of cheese to meet their quota for the quarter.

cdh:

"Since you are so dead set against any form of interpersonal interaction in the process of ordering lunch, you might want to find places that allow you to order directly from a machine, which serves as intermediary between you and the back of house."

You are misinterpreting. There is another solution: Go to Subway or Chinese restaurants. Heck, at the Chinese restaurants there are no problems, and the employees typically have poor English skills. I don't get "Want egg rolls with that? Want steamed dumplings with that? Want extra rice with that?"

It's not me: It's the determination of some owners to push 'suggestive selling' in some very rigid and insulting ways.

And, it's not "interpersonal interaction" because much of what is insulting is that the interactions are not interpersonal. Instead, no matter what I say, "To go, that's all", etc., the questions about cheese and fries still follow. So, I'm being treated as a machine that does not mind having buttons pushed for no good reason and am not being treated as a person that made wishes very clear.

"Having mentioned geography like Hopewell Junction, I'm guessing you're in NJ not far from Princeton."

I'm not in NJ.

I'm surprised you do not see the insults. Interesting.

Jensen:

"Or, you could have a little card made up that reads as follows:

'Hello. I am profoundly deaf. Please fill the following order exactly as written: [insert order here].'"

Thought of that long ago. But that would just add one absurdity to another.

Better to avoid the places, go to Subway or a Chinese place, or, if necessary, say, when traveling, realize that the poor employees have been given orders by an owner that's an idiot, just joke with the employees, put up with it, and go on.

But, when traveling, likely I will be stopping at a rural place in the Midwest. These places are ideal environments of courtesy and also comfortable interactions. Some of the most intense intellectual activity in the US, some of the most highly practiced skills, some of the highest concerns for excellence, are interpersonal interactions and 'presentations of self before the public' in small US Midwestern communities. My wife was from such a town and Valedictorian, Phi Beta Kappa, Woodrow Wilson, and Ph.D. in sociology from one of the world's best research universities, and the effort she made in her hometown social interactions exceeded what she did academically. Her mother did much more. There are not tractors enough in the Midwest to drag the local staff at such a place to be insulting. Should some outsider owner give a few insults, the local business would go to nearly zero within two days. At a fast food place in such a community, no problems!

bergerka:

"I mean, I thought 'project' was serious until I read the above quote. Dude, if you're trying to avoid foods that contribute to obesity, etc., um, WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING IN A FAST FOOD ESTABLISHMENT????

This HAS to be a put-on."

You exaggerate. The order I gave, Wendy's two singles with lettuce, tomato, pickle, onion, and mustard, large diet drink is not so bad nutritionally. At Burger King my standard order is two Whoppers with light onion and no mayonnaise. Last time at McDonald's I got a chicken Caesar salad -- Paul Newman dressing. It is possible to eat with passably good nutrition at a fast food restaurant. A first step is to avoid the cheese and fries.

melkor:

"Isn't Hopewell Junction in NY?"

I believe that there is one in NJ.

EllenC:

"Could I interest you in some hot, delicious fries with that?"

You'd come off as a total sweetheart, high school voted Most Congenial or some such. I'd just make a slight smile, close my eyes, slightly lower my head, and make a slight head shake for "No, thank you."

"OTOH project, I do think that when the girl interrupted, you could have stated, politely and firmly, that you knew just what you wanted and that you would like it quickly. This would have let her know that upselling was not an option. Any manager listening in would have understood then what was happening."

Yes, and I could have said "Please, may I complete my order?" or other such things. My wife, her sisters, and her mother were all that good, and better.

Would such civil subtlety work? Let's see: In this case, after I did complete my order and started getting questions, I did respond with "I'm not going to change my order.", "Please get my order, NOW.", "I'm not going to repeat the order.", "Please get the manager.", or some such things. Nothing but nothing worked.

The explanation I've settled on -- just looking for what fits the facts -- is that at the high pressured places the employees have been told, no matter what the customer has said, ask and either sell cheese and fries or get explicit answers of "No" for each, and do not continue with the order until this process is completed. You will be tested. And on any violation, you will be fired. Period. It's what fits the facts.

Your location's desire to have happy customers was fully appropriate. Due to an assumption of a need to have happy customers, I was reluctant to come to such an extreme conclusion and did try to find alternatives; this thread was one such effort.

One concern, then, has to be, if the owners have so little interest in having happy customers, then what other less obvious offenses are they engaging in? If they clearly can't be trusted to want happy customers face to face, how concerned could they be with what the customers can't see?

Scary.

MsRamsey:

"Perhaps the poster is doing a 'project' to see what kind of responses he'll get. I feel so cheap."

No. The name "project" is quite old on eGullet, was for an effort long ago involving beef stew, and has nothing to do with this thread.

Besides, there would have been no way to have predicted the responses!

VeruApe77:

"My thoughts exactly.

Parts of this thread reminded me of Nabakov at his prime (it was the stuff about blushing teenage girls that sealed the deal)"

You need better true/false filtering! Not even close!

Further, Nabakov was from the wrong side, opposite side, of C. P. Snow's 'Two Cultures', the side I hate and despise!

Closer to my interests are the posts I did on Jews and Chinese food. Review those and then try to bridge to 'belle-lettre'!

tommy:

"we should note that Project is a long-time member of egullet, and generally has thoughtful and interesting posts. i'm just hoping we don't slip into treating him like a troll or trouble-maker, as he's not. although this stuff *is* pretty funny."

Well, tommy, the curious part now is how few Members of eGullet are insulted by 'suggestive selling' and how many are eager to make erroneous personal extrapolations!

Some fast food owner will get the impression that nearly everyone on eGullet is so thick skinned that they wouldn't mind being wrestled to the ground and robbed while placing an order and, indeed, would respond "Good, strong marketing skills, son!".

But the extrapolations do not fit the facts at all well, and contradictions are easy enough to find!

Of course, there are other things going on!

robsimons:

For 1., a third person having to interrupt a conversation between two people as in your examples is much different than one person in a conversation of just two people interrupting the other in mid-sentence. Some times are appropriate for interruptions, and some times are not.

For 2., your remarks about me do not follow from the evidence and are not true at all. I have written McDonald's. I have not written them lately because I have avoided them for so long. Further, your remarks are as if all restaurants were essentially the same, but they are not. If Subway and my local Chinese restaurants can do fine, then so can the 50-75% of the McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King locations in my area that now refuse to execute an order until the customer explicitly declines cheese and fries.

But I have to believe that you knew these things.

Gee, what a popular, uh, notorious thread!

[Jensen]

I'm starting to think that this is more about expectations. I'll confess that I can't remember the last time I went to a McDonald's or a Wendy's. I just don't get around to them very much. That being said, when I do go to one, I expect the staff to be surly, slack-assed, or stupid. Right or wrong, that is my perception of the type of people that work in fast food joints. (For some reason, In'n'Out Burger employees are exempt from my stereotype.)

It sounds to me like your expectations are quite different. You expect civility and manners.

Unfortunately, I don't think your expectations are going to be fulfilled any time soon. It's a pity but I think it's true.

[SobaAddict70]

Having worked at a Burger King in my past life, is it any wonder that I preferred to be BOH rather than FOH? God knows what I would've done had I been subjected to the process that project went through...only on the other side of the counter.

Soba

[FistFullaRoux]

I just can't get as worked up as you about this. When I've seen something particularly galling, I'll bolt, but I don't contact the manager. Find out who the district or regional manager is, and get ahold of that person.

It's like the new Arby's commercial with the animated oven mitt trying to enforce a dress code. It's completely out of place. I guess it is all in your expectations. I'll settle for getting it mostly right, and not sweat the small stuff. If a burger jockey cuts me off midsentence, my faith in the human race will survive. I'm a big believer in non-verbal clues. Most people do get it. Try this next time. Take a deep breath through clenched teeth, and glare at them. Your blood pressure goes down, and the non-handicapped do get the point. If they don't, they obviously are handicapped, and you go over it with them again with a song in your heart.

Don't let it get to you. If the Wendy's doesn't give you an ulcer, this will...

[project]

Jensen:

"I'm starting to think that this is more about expectations. I'll confess that I can't remember the last time I went to a McDonald's or a Wendy's. I just don't get around to them very much. That being said, when I do go to one, I expect the staff to be surly, slack-assed, or stupid. Right or wrong, that is my perception of the type of people that work in fast food joints. (For some reason, In'n'Out Burger employees are exempt from my stereotype.)

It sounds to me like your expectations are quite different. You expect civility and manners.

Unfortunately, I don't think your expectations are going to be fulfilled any time soon. It's a pity but I think it's true."

I'm much more positive. My view is that the employees are fine and plenty courteous enough for me in every sense except one: I've concluded that 50-75% of the owners Wendy's, McDonald's, Burger King places in my area have decided that no order will be executed until the customer has been asked about cheese and fries and has returned explicit decisions in response.

While I have seen some movement over time, the movement is slow and some of it is in the wrong direction.

I fully agree that there is nothing to be done. E.g., "Do you want fries with that?" is a national joke, and clearly the rate of customer objections via letters has not fundamentally changed the situation in years.

Your point about expectations, though, is partly correct: I expected the owners to be much more concerned about having happy customers.

I also expected that a much larger fraction of eGullet Members would feel insulted much as I am! Ah, learn something new everyday!

SobaAddict70:

"Having worked at a Burger King in my past life, is it any wonder that I preferred to be BOH rather than FOH? God knows what I would've done had I been subjected to the process that project went through...only on the other side of the counter."

One of the reason for putting girls FOH and boys BOH is because people will mostly be nicer to girls than boys and because, given a really nasty customer, the girls won't jump over the counter and clobber the customer and a boy might!

You are right; it's not a good situation.

Now with all the typing for this thread, I'm concluding that any place that ignores what the customer said, asks questions, and insists on answers before executing the order cares too little about their customers for me to be willing to eat the food. The only solution is to avoid places that do such things and, should I be in one, just to walk out.

In particular, I will avoid any such further confrontations.

[Toliver]

Count me as yet another eGulleteer who doesn't consider what happened (with the interrupted order & and the upselling) as insulting. While it's bad manners to interrupt someone while they are speaking I don't consider it insulting.

[Mudpuppie]

(For some reason, In'n'Out Burger employees are exempt from my stereotype.)

They get paid well and receive health benefits. Maybe that's why they naturally fit into a different category.

[melkor]

(For some reason, In'n'Out Burger employees are exempt from my stereotype.)

They get paid well and receive health benefits. Maybe that's why they naturally fit into a different category.

They also have a menu with all of four things on it. There's nothing to upsell when everyone who walks in orders a double double animal style with fries and a drink.

[josephreese]

To the original question:

What are some good ways to handle this situation without doing their dance?

Don't patronize establishments that work in ways you dislike. That is the best way.

[project]

FistFullaRoux:

In looking for what fits the data, my conclusion is simple: 50-75% of the McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King owners in my area have concluded that employees will be required to ask about cheese and fries and get explicit answers before executing the order. Period. No exceptions. Wouldn't matter if I came in with a large sign reading "No cheese. No fries". They will still ask the questions and refuse to execute until I answer.

If I complain, the most I will get is a ticket for a free cheeseburger with fries!

"If a burger jockey cuts me off midsentence, my faith in the human race will survive. I'm a big believer in non-verbal clues. Most people do get it. Try this next time. Take a deep breath through clenched teeth, and glare at them."

I believe that the people are fine. I don't think that there is any way that employees are being insulting on their own. Instead, they have been told "Independent of anything the customer has said, ask, and get explicit answers, or do not execute the order."

In the face of such an instruction, non-verbal clues would be water off a duck's back. Indeed, what upsets some of the employees so much is that they know full well that they are being asked to offend the customers.

I've tried lots of phrasings, postures, tones of voice, etc. None of it works.

"Don't let it get to you."

It's not getting to me. I have a simple explanation and gave it in two versions just above. In this case, the owners do see the revenue from cheese and fries and do not see the lost revenue from when torqued people don't go. For the average owner, that's subtle enough not to be seen. The owners are making some big mistakes, but I have seen much bigger ones in business. Besides, since mostly the people on this thread are not offended and blame me, the owners would conclude that they are on solid ground!

The key point for me is that I don't want to trust the food at a place that cares so little for what their customers think.

josephreese:

"Don't patronize establishments that work in ways you dislike. That is the best way."

I was hoping for another answer but have come to just that conclusion.

[cdh]

I'm surprised you do not see the insults. Interesting.

In your context, absent tone, I'm not seeing insults. Were the tone a gum-cracking, finger snapping, tut-tutting, mmmmmm hmmmmmming, or otherwise insulting tone, then yeah, but "have a nice day" could be insulting in one of those tones too. So, given the words reported, with no attached tone of insolence, I see no insult.

[Jeffy Boy]

I can't believe I read all of project's last post. But this thread is like a car accident - I just *hafta* look....

OK - When I go to a fast food place, they usually throw in a last up-sell (would you like fries, apple pie, super-size it, whatever). In every instance, I've found the question -it's always framed as a question - to be polite and brief, and they've always taken my "no, thanks" as the answer. OK, maybe a couple of times they strung it out into two questions, but my second answer of "no thanks, that'll be it" has ended it.

I've never felt "insulted" by the question. I could see how one could find this annoying, though. Seems like a simple solution, though - don't go back!

[tommy]

i've insulted myself by reading this whole thread. i shall try to interrupt myself if i feel the urge to continue. that'll *really* piss me off.

[Mayhaw Man]

i've insulted myself by reading this whole thread. i shall try to interrupt myself if i feel the urge to continue. that'll *really* piss me off.

Would you like cheese on that burger?

Fries with that order?

Can I supersize that for you, sir?

[tommy]

Would you like cheese on that burger?

Fries with that order?

Can I supersize that for you, sir?

i'd like to point out that your 1001st post was complete nonsense. 13,000 more just like it and you'll catch up to me.

[Mayhaw Man]

i'd like to point out that your 1001st post was complete nonsense. 13,000 more just like it and you'll catch up to me.

Tommy, in a more perfect world we would all be like you.

Does this mean you don't want the fries?

[beans]

First, project, your fingers must be killing you with the length of your posts!

beans:

"Then why do you continue to subject yourself to your self-defined 'insulting' situations?"

For "self-defined", curious that you would not find being interrupted and having what you clearly said ignored not insulting.

For it to be insulting, it must clear the criteria of the offensive action/inaction to be of a personal nature in conjunction with intent to do so. When the order taker is making sure to keep their job by towing the corporate line with asking about cheese or fries, I fail to see the personal insult.

In another thread here on the Gull, marie-louise paraphrased Eleanor Roosevelt that "no one can make you feel inferior without your permission."

I think "inferior" can be easily swapped out with "insult" here and couldn't agree more.

"Not having worked in fast food, but for a corporate restaurant chain, a standard script is the norm, as is asking about, say the cheese, because it might make that extra $.50 in sales -- or may have been inadvertently forgotten by either the order taker or order giver.

Throughout this thread I keep shaking my head with the resounding question:  How is it insulting for the order taker to ask questions so as to make sure your order is correct??"

Inadvertently forget?  I stand there under ideal audio conditions, excellent native speaker of American English, with careful and appropriate pacing, complete clarity of voice and articulation, no hesitation or doubts, give the order very explicitly, and from that there is some question about inadvertent forgetting?

You'd be surprised how many times guests forget to order exactly what they wanted -- regardless of audio conditions and language spoken.

In pursuit of that extra $0.50 in sales, they have totally torqued me off.

Apparently.

I've written McDonald's more than once.

I'm sure they got a charge out of it too, as that employee was in fact towing the corporate schick and doing their job! Sell! Sell! Sell! Add ons are an essential part of the food and beverage industry. Is it some new, strange or foriegn business practice?

I started this thread.  "Do you want fries with that?" has become a national joke.  I've been willing to drive 20 miles to avoid these questions.  I've walked out of restaurants.

I'm avoiding their restaurants like the plague and, thus, costing them orders of $10 one at a time, and their questions are still justified in pursuit of $0.50 in sales?  Gee, they should take the next step and hire pick pockets.

I'm sure they don't miss your $10 orders if their staff ends up in tears each time you walk in and get irrational about them doing their job by asking about fries, cheese, or whatever. The pick pockets comment/assertion is demonstrative of how you regard their corporate goals, efforts, standard operational procedures and measures of performance for their staff in order to achieve that bottom line -- to profit and prosper.

"I am apathetic to your discomfort in the ordinary communication exchange between guest/customer and ordinary fast food employee."

They have at times been stressful situations, for employees, shift supervisors, and other customers.  For me the stress is not such a concern.

Yes! Apparently the stress you inflict upon these minimum wage workers is not at all a part of your concerns! And perhaps it should be one of your concerns all in the name of the civility you so require and nearly demand. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if you chose to continue patronising said Wendy's that management would deny you any service and ask you to leave!

You are ascribing unfavorable motives to me.

Really?

I find that presumptuous that you are asserting such as that is hardly what I am doing. I made no mention of motives, but merely expressed my observations regarding the in/considerate treatment of others and a few gross sweeping generalisations (pretty girls are the only ones that are cashiers and the Donna Reed lifestyles).

Salt as needed, but truly I fail to see any insult inflicted upon you. However, IMO, if an employee is walking away in tears simply from having to deal with taking a fast food order from a difficult customer, then I'd really start to wonder about the level of insult he/she (the employee) experienced.

edit: clarity

Edited January 30, 2004 by beans (log)

[Blondie]

project, based on your approach, I'd be willing to bet you're getting a different "special sauce" on your Big Mac.