General Tso's Relatives

[SobaAddict70]

All right, as if last night wasn't enough, I had Chinese food for dinner again tonight. Lately, I've been eating take out a lot if only because the gas has been shut off in my building for a week -- because of a gas leak that Con Edison was working on on our street last weekend, and our building has lots of issues that need to be tested out. Probably won't be another week before we get our gas turned back on but I digress...

Anyway, tonight was General Tso's Chicken from East Palace (819 Second Avenue, tel.: (212) 949-7708/fax: (212) 949-7702). Kinda ok gloopy sauce, -- just a hint of spice even with the scattering of dried red chiles on top -- crispy fried chicken chunks and plenty of vegetables. Now, I've had different versions of General Tso's. I've had thin sauced versions, thicker sauced versions, versions with chicken chunks coated in a heavily spiced sauce with sesame seeds tossed on top, etc. I've had GTC with broccoli, GTC all by itself, GTC with three token broccoli florets, GTC with cauliflower.

And along the way, I've seen General Tso's Tofu, General Tso's Crispy Fish and....I kid you not, General Tso's Potatoes.

Funny, I never knew he had so many relatives!

So, how do you make your General Tso's Chicken, and what do you serve it with?

Soba

[jo-mel]

I want mine, and make mine with only scallions, peppers, (of course) dark meat chicken, a high vinegar to sugar ratio, and double deep/fried.

As far as the differing versions that are appearing, it seems like everyone is getting into the act and making their own GTC specialty. Almost as many as the spelling of the General's name!

Remember when Mu Shu was only with pork? The classifications now include chicken, shrimp, vegetarian and --- what have I missed? This is aside from what actually makes up the basic dish - which started out as a dish with pork as a seasoning, and not as the main ingredient.

It's like the Meatloaf Syndrome. Your meatloaf is different from my meatloaf, but it is all meatloaf.

Have you seen this piece on GTC?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A59302-2002Apr16

[Chris Cognac]

I have a hard time getting General Tso anything out here in SoCal...90% of the place I have gone to dont have it. I got hooked on it while I was in the army at Ft Campbell Ky. Used to have it every weekend!

[Gary Soup]

I tend toward the Chef Peng theory (link inside Jo-Mel's link).

I can't speak for Chongqing or Chengdu, but I know that if General Tso ever shows up in Shanghai, he won't be able to pull rank on Colonel Sanders.

Edited January 27, 2004 by Gary Soup (log)

[jo-mel]

I had found the 'Chef Peng' link back in 1999, but the web page has been shut down, but I just did a search ----AND found the original article. I have copies of the article, but now I also have a direct link:

The Definitive General Tso's Chicken Page:

http://www.echonyc.com/~erich/tso.htm

In Delfs' "The Good Food of Szechuan" he mentions the dish, but it is known as La Jiao Zi Ji / Hot Pepper Chicken, as the General was very unpopular in the People's Republic because of his role in the rebellions! LOL!

I notice the dish, in Delfs' book, has 2 tsp. vinegar and NO sugar! Not the dish that has become the glycemic load it is now!!!

Wasn't Colonel Sanders the first Western franchise to get into the PRC? I remember reading when it opened in Beijing, that people had trouble/fun using the plastic fork to eat the cole slaw!!

[Toasted]

Our local place makes General Tso's tofu and it is very, very, yummy! I guess

one of his relatives was a vegetarian.

[eatingwitheddie]

Remember when Mu Shu was only with pork? ...........the basic dish - which started out as a dish with pork as a seasoning, and not as the main ingredient.

That's right, Moo Shu Pork is originally an EGG dish. The title 'moo shu' poetically refers to little yellow cassia flowers which the curds of scramble egg in the dish are said to resemble.

When I prepare this dish the classical way it has 4 eggs and just a little pork, no cabbage but shredded bamboo shoots instead, and it should be musty smelling from lilly buds and tree ears and it should never need or be served with hoisin sauce!

[Ian]

One of the things I find interesting is that General Tso's Chicken is practically unheard of in the UK - I wonder where in the USA it started...

All the best,

[Gary Soup]

Wasn't Colonel Sanders the first Western franchise to get into the PRC? I remember reading when it opened in Beijing, that people had trouble/fun using the plastic fork to eat the cole slaw!!

Yes, first (1987) and still biggest Western franchise -- 1,000 outlets and counting, almost 2:1 over McD's. Every province except Tibet, and they're working on that (difficult logistics is tha only thing that's held them back).

I ate at the first Shanghai francise in 1992 (the back door led to People's Park!). Now there's one on every corner, seemingly. They started out with the traditional set dinner but subsequently dropped the mashed potatoes and cole slaw for French fries and local veggies.

The KFC chicken in China tastes much better than here in the US, IMHO, probably because of the local chickens.

And BTW, Yum/Tri-con has over 100 Pizza Huts in China now, and exactly one (1) Taco Bell.

[Gary Soup]

One of the things I find interesting is that General Tso's Chicken is practically unheard of in the UK - I wonder where in the USA it started...

It's almost unheard of in California, too.

[jo-mel]

~~~~~~The KFC chicken in China tastes much better than here in the US, IMHO, probably because of the local chickens.~~~~~~

I've never eaten KFC in China, but you are right about the taste of the chickens. I found that they had much more flavor than at home. There was even talk of some dishes having pork instead of chicken as the flavor had depth, but you could tell by the texture that it was chicken. Free range chicks, I guess??

[Gary Soup]

I've never eaten KFC in China, but you are right about the taste of the chickens. I found that they had much more flavor than at home. There was even talk of some dishes having pork instead of chicken as the flavor had depth, but you could tell by the texture that it was chicken. Free range chicks, I guess??

Could be that, though "free range" doesn't mean a whole lot as it's defined by the USDA. Could also be related to diet, but I suspect that it's because they aren't bred to be all breast. I read a report that they switched from white meat to dark meat in a chicken patty sandwich KFC sells over there and though they got some complaints from expats, the overall sales doubled.

They favor a chicken variety in China known in Shanghai as a PuDong Chicken, and elsewhere as a Shanghai Chicken. In the U.S. the closest variety is called a "Buff Cochin" chicken, I think. It's sometimes sold (at a premium) in Asian markets in the U.S. as "huang mao" chicken, though usually the feathers are more reddish brown or buff with yellow highlights. The "Old Shanghai Rooster" of Sweet Betsy from Pike fame was undoubtedly of this family.

Shanghai chickens already had fame in the U.S. in the mid-19th Century as great eaters and poor fighters. It's my theory that they gave rise to the slang phrase "yellow" or "yellow chicken" for cowardly.

De Shanghai Chicken

[eatingwitheddie]

One of the things I find interesting is that General Tso's Chicken is practically unheard of in the UK - I wonder where in the USA it started...

All the best,

While General Tso's Chicken may not be regularly found in London or California Chinese restaurants, talk about it originating in the US is incorrect. What is correct is that it became

very popular (and bastardized) here. By the way I know this from first hand experience having been instrumental in creating and operating Amercia's first Hunanese restaurants.

I believe that General Tso first reared his head in the US in NYC during the early 70's. While he may have made an appearance at other venues, I know for certain that we were serving this preparation in NYC at Uncle Tai's Hunan Yuan in Jan '73. I also know for certain that we were inspired by, to a certain extent, a Hunan restaurant in Taipei, Peng Teng, created and owned by the renowned Hunanese Chef Peng. This is a dish that was genuinely part of his repetoire in Asia and was NOT invented in the US. Once the dish arrived here, it became crisper, sweeter,. less hot, had vegetables added etc.

Authentic General Tso's should be made from chunks of dark meat chicken that have been marinated with egg white, rice wine, salt, and a little more cornstarch than normal. The chicken pieces are briefly passed through oil THREE times: the idea is to increase the heat of the oil each time (300 degrees F, 350 degrees F. then almost 400 degrees) in order to get the outside of the chicken crusted while the meat inside remained juicy and just cooked through. The chicken is then sauced with a 'kung pao' sauce made with garlic, ginger, scallion, scortched chiles. It had an extra bit of vinegar tossed in at the last moment along with some sesame oil. Never should have any veg unless you wanted to garnish the dish with a little sauted watercress or spinach. Definitely no broccoli or cauliflower.

By the way, we were also the first American restaurant to serve Sichuan style orange beef, another dish that has become wildly popular here and that has been Americanized, in much the same way as General Tso's Chicken.

It is also true that simultaneously to Uncle Tai's another restaurant called Hunam, was opened by NYC's Shun Lee Group and that they featured many of these dishes as well. Hunam opened a few months before Uncle Tai's in the end of 1972. It too was inspired by the success of Taiwan's Peng Teng and by its brilliant chef/owner, the fabled T.T.Wang.

[Ian]

eatingwitheddie,

talk about it originating in the US is incorrect

Just to clarify, I said "I wonder where in the USA it started", "it" being the dish's tour round the USA. :-)

Thanks for your account of the dish. I will enjoy attempting to make it!

Does anyone else remember eating it in the USA before 1973? Also, was the dish given the name "General Tso's Chicken" upon arrival in the USA? Any idea?

All the best,

[Pan]

Ed, I'm glad you mentioned Orange Beef. This is a great dish when done well, but it's been a lot of years since I've had a good one. Even in otherwise decent-to-good restaurants in New York, this seems to come as lumps of super-fatty meat in a pool of oil, and upsets my stomach. I'd love it if you could tell us about any place in New York that serves a good rendition of this or/and Orange Chicken, either here or in the New York board.

[Dejah]

Ed,

Would you post your recipe/method for orange beef?

I used long thin slices of marinated inside round, dried orange peel and fresh orange zest. The sauce was spicy, vinegary and the meat was crispy on the outside. I think the trick is to use just enough sauce to add the tang...and not completely coat each piece of meat.

Your General Tso sounds much like my sesame chicken, crispy on the outside, moist and tender on the inside, lightly tossed with a slightly thickened vinegary ( a touch of sugar...don't slap me! ) spicy sauce laced with Thai reds and sesame oil. Again, the trick is to not coat the meat completely. And, NO VEGETABLES.

[Pan]

Sesame Chicken and Sesame Beef was another dish I used to like a lot. I remember getting it, for example, at the Sichuan or Hunan restaurant that used to take up the 2nd floor of the building between 109 and 110 Sts. and Broadway in Manhattan during the late 70s and early 80s. I haven't had it in a long time.

[chengb02]

KFC in China is so much better than in the US! After all my comments on Chinese food, I feel somewhat embarassed to admit it, but its a guilty pleasure, and since there are locations everywhere you turn, it is great in a pinch and it has sort of become my pre or post Jia A match meal...I don't know why it tastes so much better, but my guess is also because the chicken quality is better. The "old beijing" wraps were a must try (not sure if they are still offering them), instead of peking duck, they used fried chicken.

[skchai]

Ian, on chopstix, you carry a link to an article in the Washington Post:

Who Was General Tso And Why Are We Eating His Chicken? By Michael Browning

It has a slightly "different" take on things. To set things straight, he should have asked Eddie!

[Susan G]

When I ate KFC in Nanjing, (I was very homesick), I thought the breading was different too: Some sweeter flour combination? Red pepper flakes? I couldn't quite get my tastebuds around it......

[herbacidal]

When I ate KFC in Nanjing, (I was very homesick), I thought the breading was different too: Some sweeter flour combination? Red pepper flakes? I couldn't quite get my tastebuds around it......

When were you in Nanjing?

When I was there in 1997, those were the times we went to KFC, Mickey D's, and had coffee for 20 yuan a cup.

[Gary Soup]

When I was there in 1997, those were the times we went to KFC, Mickey D's, and had coffee for 20 yuan a cup.

20 Yuan a cup? In Shanghai it's around 4 or 5 yuan at McDonalds. You can get a "Vente" from Starbucks for 15.

[herbacidal]

When I was there in 1997, those were the times we went to KFC, Mickey D's, and had coffee for 20 yuan a cup.

20 Yuan a cup? In Shanghai it's around 4 or 5 yuan at McDonalds. You can get a "Vente" from Starbucks for 15.

In 1997, there were no Starbucks in Nanjing.

I did get coffee at McDonald's for 4 or 5 a few times.

But it's McDonald's coffee, which isn't always the best.

The 20 or so was at a cafe set up by locals mimicing more upscale coffee bars elsewhere.

[Jason Perlow]

In my opinion General Tso and other heavily sauced batter fried dishes are best eaten at the restaurant, not as takeout. They tend to steam up on the way to your house in those little containers and the fried coating gets soggy. You want it to be as crispy as possible. Theres a very short window of time in those containers when General Tso can be really good, and then becomes soggy mushy.

[slkinsey]

In my opinion General Tso and other heavily sauced batter fried dishes are best eaten at the restaurant, not as takeout. They tend to steam up on the way to your house in those little containers and the fried coating gets soggy. You want it to be as crispy as possible. Theres a very short window of time in those containers when General Tso can be really good, and then becomes soggy mushy.

I totally agree. I had noticed that the GTC is usually really good in some of the Chinese places in my 'hood, and then will be awful when ordered as delivery from the same place. Of course, this means that I hardly if ever eat GTC, because I always order delivery unless I am going out to a special Chinese place like C46 or Grand Sichuan -- in which restaurants ordering GTC should be punishable by flogging.