Stove question

[MArkF]

Have a question for all....

I am looking to retire my 20+ year old electric stove (coil burners).

Am currently on step one...education...trying to figure out what I need vs what I think I want.

So far I figure I need a 30" due to space...all other options are open...

It is my understanding that professional kitchens have high output burners to facilitate getting things cooked quickly (woking not included). Time is money!

So...question is...Do I really need 15000 BTU burners when I hardly run the current coil burners much past medium high.

I ask because "home style" ranges are $2000 or less while "professional style" ranges run $3000 or more.

Would also be interested in peoples opinions of gas vs electric convection ovens.

Thanks in advance for your help and I hope Ive not re-opened an old topic!

Mark

[fresco]

Sure doesn't sound like you need a pro cooktop. The electric convection option has a lot of strong proponents, but we have a 30" Kitchenaid convection gas range and are extremely pleased with it.

Gas cooktops do give you much better temperature control.

[DRColby]

Mark,

I just went from a 30" electric with Hobbs burners to a Dacor all gas-30" Preference. We have had painters around this weekso I haven't used it much. So far we are quite pleased.

We went through the argurment of the high BTU of the commercial like ranges, and decided it wasn't worth tearing out a microwave and fan that was over the old range to put in an expensive hood system.

The Dacor was a little over $2,000. Another range we considered that is a little less is the GE Profile.

The biggest differences I have noticed with the Dacor have been the oven, broiler and the quicker cooking times on top the range. Bang! It's on. Bang! It's off. No waiting. I made Boston Brown Bread last night using the convection oven. It took about half the time our old oven would have. The broiler is infrared and very quick. A fritatta with acheese topping took 2 minutes to brown.

The top burn BTU is like 12,000 and it seems more than adeqaute for what we do.

We're please with the addition. A person I worked with put a Viking in a simlar home cooking situation 3 years ago and is ready to take it out because of the heat it creates.

Hope that helps.

Dave

[AzRaeL]

if you wanna save time, get a pressure cooker, turning up the heat doesn't cook food faster.

[gperls]

My Kitchenaid gas range (which I don't like) has a 15K and 12K burner. The higher output burner brings water up to a boil or oil up to temp much faster than the 12K one. That's the main advantage I see in the higher btu burner.

[Fat Guy]

Ovens: Electric convection ovens are preferable on account of their evenness and precision, especially for baking and pastry, and many ranges are available in a gas-burner/electric-oven configuration. Modern gas ovens, however, perform almost as well so if fuel cost or other issues need to be considered it's no great loss going with gas. In my apartment building, we don't get a gas bill (it's a building expense so it's factored into the rent but it's de minimus) whereas electricity in New York City is ridiculously expensive. So there's no way I was getting an electric oven, not to mention you might have to install a 220 volt outlet for an electric oven (although you probably already have that wiring). My gas DCS convection range does a very good job. Were I trying to accomplish professional-level pastry feats, though, I'd want electric.

Rangetop: Higher power (not that the BTU rating tells the whole story on power) is always something that's good to have on demand. The boiling water example may sound trite, but it is in fact a huge convenience to be able to get a big-ass pot of water up to temperature in half the time. Live with a powerful pro-style stove for a couple of years and then go make some pasta at a friend's house on a regular consumer-level stove. See how much hair you pull out waiting for the damn thing to boil. Boiling also includes activities like reheating soup from the freezer -- the difference is remarkable. Higher power is also useful in several other types of cooking: putting a hard sear on a piece of meat, stir-frying (especially in a wok, where a consumer-level burner is totally inadequate), cooking with a grill-pan, etc. For other types of cooking it's completely irrelevant: eggs, pancakes, bacon, caramelized onions, most classic sauces -- there's no need for high power there. One thing you may find is that with a better stove and better power availability you change the way you cook in order to take advantage (your experience with electric is not indicative; the slow responsiveness of the coils makes them pretty much unusable at high temperatures). You also may find that as you cook over time you'll want that extra power. You're going to have the range for a long time. I think money spent on a range is the best money you can spend in your kitchen: for an extra $1000, you get a totally different, superior category of product. Think about the utility of the upgrade to this central piece of equipment versus the utility of an equivalent upgrade to, say, cabinetry, where an extra few grand can get eaten up by an insignificant uptick in materials or finish.

[Nick]

I'm with Fat Guy on getting at least one high output burner for boiling water. The Amana I got (which is no pro model) has two high output and the second one really isn't needed. Definitely get a simmer burner with what ever you get. I use that a lot as I make lots of soups, stocks, etc. Very good for making rice as well.

[budrichard]

Viking, 4-15,000BTU/HR burners, convection oven/broiler, wouldn't be without it!

Note that true commerical ranges are not rated for NFPA residential fire codes. -Dick

[Cusina]

Seconding the recommendation for the Dacor 4 burner dual fuel model. I love the fact that the top of the range is all burner and no wasted space. I use my simmer plate, which was included with the purchase, quite a bit.

Do be aware however, if you have little ones in the house, the burner knobs are NOT childproof, only the oven controls are. Our rather ditzy salesperson told us they were, but we found out otherwise the hard way (3 year old lit the kitchen broom on fire... Yikes!!!) . Fortunately we were able to put it out and no one was hurt, except the broom, but it scared the heck out of us.

[jmcgrath]

I have two 30" electric, non-convection GE ovens located side by side. I went non-convection because of the loss of oven depth with the convection fan. I only use both ovens at the same time perhaps a dozen times a year, but when I'm using both, I need all the space I can get. The only thing I miss with the electric ovens is an infrared broiler. An electric broiler is the pale cousin of an infrared.

One thing I discoverd when the ovens were being installed was that the manufacturer's spec called for a 6 inch separation between the ovens. The sales droid had never mentioned this, and the cabinetry was already installed. I made a paniced call to the GE hotline and was told that there was a fire danger if both ovens were run on self-clean at the same time. I decided I could remember not to do that and went ahead with a no separation installation.

I have a 36" 5 burner Jenn-Air gas cooktop centered above the ovens.

I do a lot of cooking, but in most cases my setup is overkill. When I'm really cranking out a lot of food, it is a real joy.

Jim

[jgm]

I'd like to bump this thread up and re-open the discussion, since it's been four years since it terminated.

We will be building a new house in the next 18 months, and I have been looking at stoves. The range will be gas; I plan to install one other wall oven, which may be an electric convection oven. I have several questions.

First of all, in Fat Guy's posts in this thread, he said "not that the BTU rating tells the whole story on power". Can anyone tell me more about that? The only thing I'm seeing mentioned about the amount of heat output is the BTU rating, and if there are other factors to consider, I'd like to be aware of them.

Also, how many BTU's do I really need? I would agree that having one burner that can boil water pretty quickly would be a real advantage. Are 15,000 BTU's that much faster than 12,000? I will be spending $1,000 or less on the stove.

It would be lovely if there were a place here locally where I could actually cook on some of these products, but nothing like that exists here to my knowledge.

I'm open to recommendations and all types of advice from those of you who've purchased a stove or wall oven recently, including things you wish you had, features you love, and other things to look out for.

[Katie Meadow]

I never had great luck translating BTU's into guaranteed high flame/fast cooking. Some residential non-commercial stoves seemed to have better power than others regardless of BTU. Some have burners with a very small diameter, and that doesn't help. For years I was frustrated that I couldn't get my wok hot enough to stir-fry properly (and yes, I know there's a currently active thread about that.)

When I finally had the opportunity to change some things in my kitchen I decided to spend money on two things: a stove and a ceramic tile floor. I kept my slightly funky 70's cabinets and instead of spending big bucks on a high-concept countertop I went with old-fashioned high gloss Formica. I wanted two things out of a stove: an oven that could get up to 500 degrees and burners that would heat water really quickly and have a high enough hot enough flame for wok cooking.

I had space for only a 30" stove, so I chose the bottom-of-the-line Viking. It's 15,000 BTU and heats a large pot of water amazingly fast. The oven is convection with space enough for a 15" pizza stone, and when we looked at other similar quality products no other 30" units had an oven that big (As noted above, convection seriously decreases the oven space; we actually dragged that dopey pizza stone with us when we shopped for a stove--but we use it all the time.) Viking also makes an interchangeable wok burner grate that holds the wok perfectly. This has been one of the best purchases I ever made. It was totally worth scrimping on some other details. I don't remember the price, but the difference between a good quality residential stove and the lowest price Viking was far less than it would have cost for a stone countertop. If there's any other design element in the kitchen you can live without, consider spending more on a stove.

[Boy R D]

About four years ago I purchased a DCS 30" dual fuel range. The thing that sold me on the DCS was the 5 burners packed into a neat 30" space and that four burners top at 15000BTU and the center one goes to 17500BTU.

But wait, there's more! The most impressive feature is not how high they go but how low they go. On the lowest setting you can literally lay a sheet of paper on the grate and it won't ignite. Other ranges handle the low flame issue in different ways. Some give you a heavy heat diffuser plate to put between the flame and your pot while others like the Thermadore turn the flame on and off to simulate a low output.

I know that the Wolf range has as good low end performance but at the time it cost about $1000 more.

Some folks complain about the size of the ring of flame on the DCS but this has not bothered me at all.

Good luck and have fun shopping.

[budrichard]

"I will be spending $1,000 or less on the stove."

At that price point just about any good gas stove will suffice.-Dick

[tim]

Mark,

Consumer Reports rated ranges in their February, 2008 issue. You can read the whole article at your local library.

They gave top ratings to the following models, both within your price range:

Electric: Kenmore 9641[2]

GE JBP81SL[sS]

Gas: Kenmore 7136[2]

Jebnire 7138[2]

Near the bottom of the ratings were two Viking models costing $4,000.

Good luck,

Tim

Edited May 4, 2008 by tim (log)

[budrichard]

"Near the bottom of the ratings were two Viking models costing $4,000."

Consumer Reports does many things well and some things not so well.

If you want information about a Viking, I suggest you talk to someone that has one or better yet actually use one. Since the cost of the Viking is beyond the scope of this thread there is not much more to say.-Dick