Story of Varmint's Kitchen Renovation

[fifi]

Also, if I were to do a total demolition, I'd go further than what we've already described. I'd move the entrance to the kitchen, so that a major portion of the space isn't taken up with a hallway (see the first picture). Hell, I'd consider moving my kitchen into our "formal" living room, which is hardly utilized. It'd be beautiful! But then, I'd have to gut the old kitchen to make it into better living space!

Now there is an idea! When you get the money, that sounds like the way to go. You still have the old kitchen to use, the otherwise unused space won't be missed while it is being "transformed", and all is right with the world.

[hjshorter]

Have you seriously considered that, Dean? That would be a great space for a kitchen, with plenty of room for storage, a loft ceiling, and that nice window to put a table next to. You could then tear down the old kitchen, make it into a larger living/dining area, and add a mud room for backpacks & sports equipment.

[Varmint]

It may be an option. It's pretty much an open book. We could do the demo of the existing kitchen, but then what???

[hjshorter]

That's where you get the house designer in on the action. Use the old kitchen while the new one is being built, then tear it down. Drywall and new floors are easier to do than new appliances and cabinets.

I could see enclosing part of the area that currently houses the sink, cooktop, and counter to make a mud room. Take out the wall (or part of the wall) between the dining area and refrig/wet bar area. Move the washing machine out of your office and into the mud room.

Just some ideas. We close on our new house, and will start renovating the new kitchen at the end of February.

[denise_jer]

We have a cork floor. It looked great the first couple of months and then we added Bogie (mix black lab) to the family. Bye bye cork floor. Maybe the sealant was not properly applied, but nevertheless the marks from Bogie are quite noticeable.

It is definitely a nice surface to stand for hours cooking, but I do not think it is really durable with pets around or with hard use. I have mix feelings about the cleaning, other surfaces might be a better choice.

Alex

It is used in hospitals and libraries, which can be high-traffic areas. The renovated downtown St. Paul, MN library has cork flooring in the entry way. I do think the color makes a difference, though. We have two fairly active cats, and have not noticed any damage to the floor. But they're not dogs, so it could be very different! But any damage that a dog would do to our cork floors would probably occur on our maple floors as well, I'm guessing.

Those pictures were excellent! How do you not get completely claustrophobic in there? I love the idea of building a kitchen from scratch in another room and turning your current kitchen into something else. I wonder what the quote on that would be?

[candaceb]

I just did an extensive renovation including an all new kitchen. We researched all appliances for what seemed like a lifetime and ended up with a Kenmore 40 inch dual fuel self cleaning double oven. It's a 5 burner gas cooktop with a smallish second oven. Love it! $2,199 and worth every penny. Now where I did get in trouble was with the 42 inch range hood that started at $999 and ended up costing $2,200 but that is another story and a very valuable lesson! Do NOT let anyone convince you that this renovation has to be anything other than a great and fun adventure. EVERYONE groaned and rolled their eyes and implyed that we were getting ready to slip into a maze of suffering but we were very hands on, very precise, did our homework down to every nail, hired the best (reasonably price) contractor, then respected his opinions and talked over everything. He told us the clients from hell were the vague ones. We got high praise because we never had to re do anything because we didn't communicate with him or went away from a meeting without full understanding of what he was planning. The whole thing took 5 months (it was doubling the size of the house) and not one bad moment. So enjoy! Think of this as designing your very own Disneyland.

[Boris_A]

Hell, I'd consider moving my kitchen into our "formal" living room, which is hardly utilized. 

Here in Europe more than 50% of newly built kitchens are integrated in the living room (or vice versa). I've never met anyone who regretted it. From what I've seen on your pictures - it would make sense. A lot.

[Dave the Cook]

Varmint can correct me on the details, but here's a floor plan using my (admittedly undependable) memory, as refreshed by Varmint's photos. Maybe this will help folks visualize the situation more easily.

Does this look more or less right, Dean?

[Varmint]

Varmint can correct me on the details, but here's a floor plan using my (admittedly undependable) memory, as refreshed by Varmint's photos. Maybe this will help folks visualize the situation more easily.

Does this look more or less right, Dean?

Damn, that's almost spot on, Dave. The L'il Varmints' bar extends about 8 inches beyond the plane of the wall ovens. The other thing is that the top part of the dishwasher (from these plans' perspective) does not quite reach the plane of the ovens. Finally, and somewhat importantly, is that the marble slab ends at the plane of the ovens, too. There's a wall there. On the other side of that wall (where the dishwasher part is) is a coat closet. The remainder of that wall houses the ovens. Does that make sense? The importance of this is that we may tear down the closet and oven walls, but there's still a load bearing wall between them.

[Dave the Cook]

Is this better?

[Boris_A]

I've cooked in this kitchen for 5 years

4 kids? Varmint, you're my hero!

[Varmint]

The extension of the L'il Varmints' bar should be toward the sink. That bar is L-shaped, so it extends about 8 inches toward the bottom of the drawing -- not towards the closet. Also, the load bearing wall is the line between the ovens and the closet, not the new one you just drew.

A few other minor things you may want to add. Just to the right of the mini-sink sits the wine fridge under the counter. And to the left of the fridge (from the drawing's orientation) sits a Scotsman ice maker that isn't working well right now!

That's awesome!!!

[Kim WB]

Dave, that drawing really brings out the maze like qualities! Varmint, was your FIL a researcher or someone who worked with rats, cheese,and mazes?? Perhaps designed cornfields in his spare time?

[Varmint]

He's an architect who has never made a piece of toast in his life. Their new kitchen is 1 million percent more functional.

[Dave the Cook]

(sigh) Clients!

Before resigning this Hell's Kitchen to the rubbish heap, I do have a few kind words for it.

1. As Maggie said, there are some fond eGullet memories here.

2. It's very mazeness actually creates a surprising amount of counter space. I recall that at one time -- the same time, as in simultaneously:

• edemuth, maggethecat, Aurora and I were all working at the marble. edemuth and I were chopping, and Maggie and Aurora were picking thyme and basil leaves and cleaning shrimp.
  
• At the bottom end of the Li'l Varmints' bar, guajolote was spatchcocking chickens.
  
• On the counter opposite the sink, malawry was bravely subduing lemons.
  
• KatieLoeb set up a makeshift bar along the back counter (the one parallel to the driveway).
  
• On the grill counter, we had three crockpots going for stock.
  
• Over by the wet bar, we were thawing ducks in two stockpots.
  
• Occasionally, Heather would wander through to check the greens simmering on the cooktop.
  
• Meanwhile, at the living room side of the Li'l Varmints' bar, Blondie and joler were picking the meat off of rabbit carcasses.
  

3. I'm not admitting to anything, but if frottage happens to be your particular fetish, this kitchen abounds in opportunity.

[Dave the Cook]

He's an architect who has never made a piece of toast in his life. Their new kitchen is 1 million percent more functional.

Mrs. Dr. Varmint's mother's new kitchen inhabits a completely separate universe from Varmint's kitchen.

[Varmint]

The drawing is exceptional. Can you email me a larger version of this (assuming one is available)?

What the drawing doesn't capture is the upper cabinetry, how it's totally unnecessary and gets in the way. Also, there is a big ol' "I" beam that is embedded in the cabinets above the L'il Varmints' bar. Also, the track lighting. Don't you love those light cans???

I'm meeting with a designer-builder at 1:00 today. Maybe they can come up with a decent idea.

[Chad]

Dave, that drawing really brings out the maze like qualities! Varmint, was your FIL a researcher or someone who worked with rats, cheese,and mazes?? Perhaps designed cornfields in his spare time?

Or played a lot of Pac Man!

Chad

[Kim WB]

Dave, that drawing really brings out the maze like qualities!  Varmint, was your FIL a researcher or someone who worked with rats, cheese,and mazes??  Perhaps designed cornfields in his spare time?

Or played a lot of Pac Man!

Chad

Exactly! With the twists and turns,and the red counter top, and all those hidden monsters ( like the dishwasher underhang) , Varmint has a video game kitchen!

[fifi]

What the drawing doesn't capture is the upper cabinetry, how it's totally unnecessary and gets in the way.

Funny, I came to that same conclusion. I am short. One of the pet peeves I finally noticed while making my kitchen diary was that I hated upper cabinets. I had never really though about it before. I mean... EVERYONE has upper cabinets. You HAVE to have upper cabinets. NOPE. I got rid of them and the new kitchen will still have tons of storage, and two windows I couldn't have had otherwise.

Also... Base cabinets will be all drawers of some sort. I also found out that I hate groveling on the floor.

Thanks for the drawing, Dave. I get it now, unfortunately.

[helenas]

Anyway, our designer suggested we use Amtico which makes vinyl flooring.  Her experience was that it's comfortable for long-term standing and easy to clean.  The selection of colors and styles is absolutely overwhelming - we spent several hours in the showroom looking at choices and figuring what would work best in our space.

Completely agree on Amtico. Mind-boggling selection: in fact, we're thinking of using their rustic wood style in home office and guest bedroom.

Edited January 13, 2004 by helenas (log)

[Varmint]

Just got finished with a designer. Might have the temporary solution, but I can't draw it. Remove the sink area. Insert 36 inch range centered along wall where cooktop currently resides. Sink now goes to a new counter area to the left of the grill. The counter closest to the doorway (by the word "Driveway") will need to be angled somewhat to allow passage. The diswasher will go where the compactor is. The marble slab will be removed and replaced with a smaller counter area with a cabinet above it. The lower oven will be removed. Get a new upper oven, and add cabinet beneath it.

This totally opens up the center of the room. Perhaps too much so, as traffic will walk through the center of the workspace. Perhaps a small island cabinet might help. However, this works well in the giant scheme of things. We'll see.

[Mayhaw Man]

[

Also... Base cabinets will be all drawers of some sort. I also found out that I hate groveling on the floor.

There is so much cool hardware around these days for pullouts, lazy susans, slides, etc. that you can do some pretty amzing stuff with lower cabinets that used to have lots of dead space in them and generally look like big giant disasters. Especially stuff in the corners, those twistl out corner shelves coupled with double doors in the corners (I hope you know what I am talking about or that makes no sense )

[Blondie]

This totally opens up the center of the room.  Perhaps too much so, as traffic will walk through the center of the workspace.  Perhaps a small island cabinet might help.  However, this works well in the giant scheme of things.  We'll see.

You could use a worktable instead of an island. Boos has some nice ones. I like the Cucina Laforza, with the simple stainless steel base, or the Cucina Grande, which incorporates drawers, with or without the pot rack. The Flex model would even make up for the fact that you'd have less storage than a traditional island, but any of them would probably cost substantially less than cabinetry.

You could re-use it when you do the full renovation, and I think the modern look would work well with what you've got. My brother has been using a Boos table as an island for several years and it still looks great.

[fresco]

Have you considered changing the name of this thread to "Spend Varmint's Renovation Money?"