Electric Meat Grinder Recommendations

[scubadoo97]

Timely post. I have been using my KA grinder attachment for many years but wanted something that could do a better job. I often like to grind my meat partially frozen and I have noticed a strain on the KA motor and a touch of black oil that began to leak out of and into my meat. Friday a Tasin TS 108 Tasin grinder was delivered. My brother and I researched them and he got two off ebay for a very good price. Just a little more than the Northern Idustrial. Looks like the same grinder as the one Andiesenjie posted but the motor is listed as 1200W. I think Tasin must make these under different names. Spent part of yesterday grinding meat. The cutting plates are heavy duty and the hopper tray is very large so I can load it up. I would love to learn sausage making and have read many of the post here for starters. We just had hamburgers for dinner this evening. Fantastic!

[slkinsey]

One issue with the Northern Tools grinder:

As previously mentioned, it is extremely heavy and heavy-duty. Every part is thick metal. . . except one: the on/off switch. This is made of plastic. Because the grinder is so heavy it's not going to move if something bumps into the plastic switch. No, what's going to happen is that the plastic switch is going to crack and break -- which is exactly what happened to mine. Apparently this is not an uncommon problem, because when I called Northern Tools to order a replacement switch, the helpful customer service rep told me that it was back-ordered and that there were already several orders pending.

[andiesenji]

One issue with the Northern Tools grinder:

As previously mentioned, it is extremely heavy and heavy-duty.  Every part is thick metal. . . except one:  the on/off switch.  This is made of plastic.  Because the grinder is so heavy it's not going to move if something bumps into the plastic switch.  No, what's going to happen is that the plastic switch is going to crack and break -- which is exactly what happened to mine.  Apparently this is not an uncommon problem, because when I called Northern Tools to order a replacement switch, the helpful customer service rep told me that it was back-ordered and that there were already several orders pending.

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They have changed the design of the switches - the newer ones are round, contoured and less apt to be damaged.

[Chris Amirault]

I just ordered the smaller of the two Northern Tool grinders shown here. I don't have any bones to grind up (I hope), and even on a busy day I'm not going to test the power of this little rock of machine. Several of the features (reverse button, extra plates, power) sold me. I'll post more about it here -- with more detailed photos -- when I get it.

[Lapin d'Argent]

I just ordered the smaller of the two Northern Tool grinders shown here. I don't have any bones to grind up (I hope), and even on a busy day I'm not going to test the power of this little rock of machine. Several of the features (reverse button, extra plates, power) sold me. I'll post more about it here -- with more detailed photos -- when I get it.

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Chris,

I hope in the interest of science and the advancement of eGullet knowledge that you plan to test the site's claim that your new baby can grind 176lbs of meat per hour.

Mind you, not 175lbs, or 177lbs, but 176lbs...where do they get these numbers??!!

Congratulations! Can't wait to see your new toy in action! I'm very jealous...

- L.

[scubadoo97]

I just ordered the smaller of the two Northern Tool grinders shown here. I don't have any bones to grind up (I hope), and even on a busy day I'm not going to test the power of this little rock of machine. Several of the features (reverse button, extra plates, power) sold me. I'll post more about it here -- with more detailed photos -- when I get it.

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Chris this is the one I have or very close. It is a Tasin TS-108 which is listed at 1200 watts but virtually the same. I think mine was around $100 off ebay. Works well but very loud or at least mine is. I think Tasin a Korean Co. makes all of these that have that body.

[Chris Amirault]

Loud is fine. It seems to me that grinding flesh is one of the things that need not be quiet.

[scubadoo97]

Loud is fine. It seems to me that grinding flesh is one of the things that need not be quiet.

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Loud like ear protection loud. My ears would ring after use without protection.

[FoodMan]

Loud is fine. It seems to me that grinding flesh is one of the things that need not be quiet.

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Chris-

I just bought one of these a couple of weeks ago and just posted some results on the charcuterie thread. The noise does not bother me much and so far I am pretty happy with it.

[JimH]

The KA does a good job of grinding as long as you keep the plates/knives sharp and feed it ice periodically. In the beginning the biggest problem I had was what kind of container should be under the grinder. After purchasing ever larger mixing bowls I finally brokedown and bought a 7" white tote. It's the size of a lunch tray with 7" sides and it's dishwasher safe. I bought it at a butcher supply shop but I imagine you could get one at a restaurant supply too. It leaves me with plenty of room for the ground meat so nothing falls on the counter or floor. It's ideal for mixing the spices in with the meat either before or after the grind and I can also throw some ice in a corner for the grinder.

[Chris Amirault]

Brought out the new NT grinder today to grind up 20 lbs of Coleman shoulder for 5 lbs each of sweet Italian, hot Italian, kielbasa, and andouille. First impressions are fantastic -- and it's wildly better than the KA.

Here it is chilled and ready to go:

A shot of the three buttons:

It cuts better, faster, and stays colder than the KA ever did. This shot is telling:

That's five pounds of shoulder that went into the grinder at 28F. As you can see it barely warmed up while being ground. The definition is also fantastic.

It wasn't too loud for my ears, and whatever volume was worth it for the power and speed. As for 176 lbs/hr, I'll never know: I had to scramble to keep up with the grinder, and was regularly feeding more slowly than the machine was grinding. That is to say, it's faster than I'll ever need.

I love it. I can try to answer more questions and snap more shots if they'd be useful.

[andiesenji]

Beautiful. Let us know what you think of the sausage stuffer. I found it much easier to use than the old machines I had.

I recently used mine to grind a large container of dried figs along with coconut and almonds.

I didn't weigh them, just kept grinding until everything had been put through the machine.

I think I may have added some apricots too. I have a 12-qt Cambro container packed with the stuff. It will eventually be turned into "candy" rolls and filling in cookies. (My version of "Newtons"..)

Some of the figs were quite hard. I used to have to steam them to soften them, with the old grinder. However, the NT doesn't have a problem.

[maggiethecat]

Wow, that's impressive materiel, Chris. Congratulations on your new Love Object! If we made sausage more than six times a years that booty would be mine, The temp thing is truly impressive.

[Chris Amirault]

Thanks, Maggie.

Beautiful.  Let us know what you think of the sausage stuffer.  I found it much easier to use than the old machines I had. 

I have a hand-cranked Grizzly stuff that's fantastic, and I'm loathe to switch, especially given the challenge of feeding sticky meat into that feeder channel. That reminds me of one criticism: the plastic plunger works very well when you have cold large dice chunks, but its diameter is probably a good 1" smaller than that of the feeder channel. That made second grinds more difficult and produced meat that picked up more than 2F going through.

I recently used mine to grind a large container of dried figs along with coconut and almonds. ... Some of the figs were quite hard.  I used to have to steam them to soften them, with the old grinder.  However, the NT doesn't have a problem.

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I'm not surprised. The thing is a powerhouse.

[Chris Amirault]

I wanted to add a note about a characteristic that's pretty easy to address but worth mentioning. In order to fit a bowl under the grinder plate, I had to raise it about 8" or so. It's not a big deal and can't really be called a flaw, but it seemed worth mentioning.

[dougal]

Brought out the new NT grinder today ...

Here it is chilled and ready to go:

Chris - is that the 10mm hole plate?

Are the plates a recognisable standard format (if so, which), or are they custom to this machine?

Same question regarding the cutter blade, which one reviewer posting on the NT site suggested was unusually shaped (or perhaps they had just fitted it backwards!)

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It cuts better, faster, and stays colder than the KA ever did. This shot is telling:

That's five pounds of shoulder that went into the grinder at 28F. As you can see it barely warmed up while being ground. The definition is also fantastic.

...

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No question that it must be way better than the plastic KitchenAid.

However, (1) are those brown (rather than pink) bits in the photo not evidence of localised heating? (For example just to the right of the thermometer dial.) And (2) it looks like this was on the coarse (10mm) plate - would the finer plate not be expected to produce rather more meat heating?

I was wondering how butchers can generally produce such 'clean' mince without fussing about such detail as chilling the grinder. Certainly their machines have much more powerful motors, larger diameter plates and longer cutting blades. But how does that translate into 'cleaner' cutting?

One aspect that occurs to me is that the blade/plate contact pressure must be important to be quite high (certainly lower gives more ''clogging' of the blade with uncut stuff), but that torquing up the big nut on the front to press the plate harder against the blade is going to increase the loading on the motor by increasing the friction of blade against plate... The bigger the plate (and nut) the easier to apply (by hand) a high fastening torque, and hence more blade to plate pressure. However, that blade/plate contact force is also going to produce a longitudinal thrust along the shaft, that needs to be taken by the bearing surface on the back of the mincer... but no-one ever seems to suggest any lubrication (cooking oil?) for that back thrust bearing surface! (The blade at the front is going to be well lubricated by meat fat!)

As long as the motor can handle the extra friction resulting from the increased tightening torque, I think that the front nut should really be pretty damn tight.

I was personally recalibrated by seeing the amount of torque being applied in the section of the demo movie of the Electrolux DLX mixer that deals with its mincer/grinder attachment.

http://www.everythingkitchens.com/electroluxvideo.html

Its the fourth item demonstrated (after the roller, dough hook and beater) and perhaps a quarter of the way through for those trying to 'fast forward'.

Also of note (to me at least) in the mincer section of that video is the technique of using long strips of meat, dropped straight down the tube from a fork, rather than the standard cubes which need to be chased around the input tray and then pushed down to the spiral.

The use of strips then opens the possibility of discussing which way the strips should be cut.

My guess is that the strips should be cut along the muscle fibre direction, so that the blade can then cut cleanly across the fibres ... Or should it be the other way round?

I'm sure there must be many such subtleties that individually we have been missing out on...

Edited May 5, 2008 by dougal (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Chris - is that the 10mm hole plate?

Yeah, it's the "coarse" plate 3/8"/10mm.

Are the plates a recognisable standard format (if so, which), or are they custom to this machine?

Same question regarding the cutter blade, which one reviewer posting on the NT site suggested was unusually shaped (or perhaps they had just fitted it backwards!)

I think that they are standard, yes. Here's what it looks like --and that's from a different supplier. Ditto the blade. Having said that, I can't say for sure bc I don't know what "standard" means exactly.

(1) are those brown (rather than pink) bits in the photo not evidence of localised heating? (For example just to the right of the thermometer dial.)

That's coarsely ground black pepper and fennel seed. Believe me, there was no localized heating.

(2) it looks like this was on the coarse (10mm) plate - would the finer plate not be expected to produce rather more meat heating?

Yes, it definitely does. I wanted to get a finer texture on the kielbasa and so I ran the mix through the 1/8" plate after running the meat and fat through the 3/8" plate. However, the temp went from (IIRC) 29F to 33F, still far below anything that would create a problem. Most remarkably, I never dismantled the machine to chill the parts again during the entire grinding process (a total of 25 lbs: 15 once through and 5 twice through).

I was wondering how butchers can generally produce such 'clean' mince without fussing about such detail as chilling the grinder. Certainly their machines have much more powerful motors, larger diameter plates and longer cutting blades. But how does that translate into 'cleaner' cutting?

Actually, I'm getting much better mince than a lot of the butchers I know around here! But to answer your question, I think that the design of the grinder really makes a difference, as does blade sharpness, technique (cold meat, pregrind dice, etc.), and the things you list.

One aspect that occurs to me is that the blade/plate contact pressure must be important to be quite high (certainly lower gives more ''clogging' of the blade with uncut stuff), but that torquing up the big nut on the front to press the plate harder against the blade is going to increase the loading on the motor by increasing the friction of blade against plate...

I think that's only true if the parts have been machined poorly (like, say, the KA). The blade was snug against the plate but not pushing hard against it.

Also of note (to me at least) in the mincer section of that video is the technique of using long strips of meat, dropped straight down the tube from a fork, rather than the standard cubes which need to be chased around the input tray and then pushed down to the spiral.

The use of strips then opens the possibility of discussing which way the strips should be cut.

My guess is that the strips should be cut along the muscle fibre direction, so that the blade can then cut cleanly across the fibres ... Or should it be the other way round?

I think that the strip question is a good one. I nearly always preseason and overnight my meat before grinding, and mincing is worth the effort for good distribution. But for weeknight burgers, say, I'd think that strips of chuck would be easier and quicker to prep. Given that it's going to be ground up, I don't think the muscle fiber direction matters too much, does it?

[dougal]

Chris - is that the 10mm hole plate?

Yeah, it's the "coarse" plate 3/8"/10mm.

Are the plates a recognisable standard format (if so, which), or are they custom to this machine?

Same question regarding the cutter blade, which one reviewer posting on the NT site suggested was unusually shaped (or perhaps they had just fitted it backwards!)

I think that they are standard, yes. Here's what it looks like --and that's from a different supplier. Ditto the blade. Having said that, I can't say for sure bc I don't know what "standard" means exactly.

That blade does look very unusual. Two (asymmetrically arranged) cutting blades and two pushers, it looks like...

Regarding the plates -- the linked one is a #22 whereas I understand that your "grinder" (English English: "mincer") is a #12 size (2 3/4" 69mm diameter plate).

Standard outside diameter and centre shaft-bearing hole sizes are two aspects of standardisation. The (rotational) location method is another. The plate you linked has a single locating notch. That supplier also offers versions with three notches and three notches plus flatted sides.

I have two "grinders". A little chap from the Lidl supermarket with a 2 1/16" diameter plate located by two lugs protruding from the plate (not notches!) And (via eBay but so newly that its unused as yet) the Electrolux DLX #12 sized attachment (as per the video) - so the exact same size as that NT grinder's plates. But the Electrolux has two locating notches in the plate, and therefore cannot (immediately) take non-Electrolux plates. The coarsest Electrolux plate available seems to have a mere 6mm hole.

Chris I envy you that 10mm coarse plate! And even more the ability to use items like *this* !

Problem is that the 230v version is £75 from NorthernToolUK. Adding taxes and delivery makes it £96 - call that $200 - which is getting kinda expensive...

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Also of note (to me at least) in the mincer section of that video is the technique of using long strips of meat, dropped straight down the tube from a fork, rather than the standard cubes which need to be chased around the input tray and then pushed down to the spiral.

The use of strips then opens the possibility of discussing which way the strips should be cut.

My guess is that the strips should be cut along the muscle fibre direction, so that the blade can then cut cleanly across the fibres ... Or should it be the other way round?

I think that the strip question is a good one. I nearly always preseason and overnight my meat before grinding, and mincing is worth the effort for good distribution. But for weeknight burgers, say, I'd think that strips of chuck would be easier and quicker to prep. Given that it's going to be ground up, I don't think the muscle fiber direction matters too much, does it?

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I was thinking that the muscle fibre orientation might make a significant difference to folks with a lightweight, underpowered "grinder" -- maybe even a KA. It shouldn't make any odds with your machine Chris, (except maybe to Heston Blumenthal - who seems to think that the "grinder" orients the meat fibres in the same way as plastics molecules coming out of an extruder BBC hamburger recipe *link* - scroll down to "making the burgers"). My thinking is that directionality might influence the "grinder's" performance (especially if it were marginal), rather than the eating quality of the sausage (or burger) in any direct sense.

I'd think that cutting into adequately thin strips would mean that marinade diffusion time wasn't significantly different to cubing the meat. And I'm pretty sure that a long strip would be presented to the plate rather differently to a small cube. Its definitely a technique I'm intending to try next time. But first, I think, is the matter of sourcing that Electrolux 6mm hole plate...

The Kenwood A950a attachment is only a #8 (2 3/8" diameter plate), but being a single notch location, ought to take 3rd party plates coarser than the supplied "coarse" one (8mm hole).

Edited May 5, 2008 by dougal (log)

[scubadoo97]

Brought out the new NT grinder today to grind up 20 lbs of Coleman shoulder for 5 lbs each of sweet Italian, hot Italian, kielbasa, and andouille. First impressions are fantastic -- and it's wildly better than the KA.

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Wildly better is right. I ground 5lbs of raw horseradish root and 2 large raw beets in mine recently without a problem.

Glad you enjoying your new grinder Chris and the sausage looks amazing.

[andiesenji]

The mention of cutting the meat into strips reminded me that with some meats that have coarser fibers, (venison, bison and elk, for instance), I usually cut it into slabs across the grain and then into strips, lay them out on a sheet pan, season the meat and then slide the sheet pan (full sized) into a supersized zip bag and into the freezer for about 45 minutes.

It may just be my imagination but I seem to get far less "stringing" and a much finer mince for the fine-grained sausages, such as jagdwurst, bockwurst and mettwurst and the fat seems to distribute itself more evenly throughout the mince, when the meat is near or slightly frozen.

[Dave the Cook]

As to the strip question, here's a recent data point: I ground 2-1/2 pound of chuck for burgers the other night, using the KA grinder attachment. After trimming away all the visible sheathing but before doing the last chop, I remembered this topic. So I did strips. Since we were really hungry, I wasn't too picky about grain orientation. I dumped the strips in a bowl and stuck the bowl in the freezer for about fifteen minutes.

The grind was effortless -- a huge improvement over any previous grind. Just drop the strips in one by one. The screw picks them up and sprials them through the blades. While by looks it wasn't as good as what Chris A. is getting with his NT, it was much closer to that than what I usually see out of the KA. Timewise, it's not much different than cubing and plunging -- especially since between the chill and the strip feed, there were no smearing breakdowns, and since the grinder didn't labor as much, the meat temperature remained nicely chilly.

[Chris Amirault]

Strips pull the rest of themselves into the worm to be ground, unlike chunks....

[Dave the Cook]

Zactly.

[muichoi]

Related to this subject, I just made some simple fresh sausage with pork, salt, pepper, garlic and red wine. I had some pork belly which wouldn't go through the mincer/grinder properly so I ended up chopping by hand, not very finely. Rather hard work for 5lbs. The thing is, the result is incredible, so superior that I'll never go back to finely ground meat. Has any one got an idea for a machine to help me?

[goutdelavie]

Related to this subject, I just made some simple fresh sausage with pork, salt, pepper, garlic and red wine. I had some pork belly which wouldn't go through the mincer/grinder properly so I ended up chopping by hand, not very finely. Rather hard work for 5lbs. The thing is, the result is incredible, so superior that I'll never go back to finely ground meat. Has any one got an idea for a machine to help me?

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For me personally, I prefer the large die on my KitchenAid for almost all grinding. The only way I can get a larger grind though is if I have my butcher do it - they can get a REALLY coarse grind that is really good for some things. It's also how they do their own sausage.

Long story short - be friends with your butcher!