A Chef's Beer

[wnissen]

I've purchased stuff from morebeer.com before and been pleased... Do you know what's going on w/ them lately? Their site has been down for the past couple of days. Are they still in business? Is this just a technical glitch?

I haven't been there for six weeks or so, but as far as I can tell they are open and their website is working. Probably just a glitch.

Nut brown sounds good to me. I've brewed a Porter, a Pale Ale, a Hefeweizen, an American Ale, and a West Coast Pale Ale. The last was from a US$30 Mr. Beer kit, and was drinkable but not that great. Nut brown will make a super next beer.

I do have a comment on equipment. I've done a couple of partial boil batches with a 16L pot (I now have a 28L) and they turned out fine. A big stock pot is really all that is necessary, as long as you keep an eye out for boil-overs due to the increased density.

As for the quality of the beer, any person who cooks (or bakes, especially) will be able to make a very good tasting batch of beer the first time out as long as they are scrupulously clean. Unfortunately, that does preclude starting the siphons with your mouth. :) It will take 5 or so hours and a good bit of effort the first time, but it is not in any way difficult.

Walt

[cdh]

Walt- finally got morebeer's page back... three days of "Not Found" had me worried.

and, btw, 1 Gallon = 3.78 liters... a 16L pot == 4.25 Gallons. Within the spec given for the project.

[wnissen]

and, btw, 1 Gallon = 3.78 liters...  a 16L pot == 4.25 Gallons.  Within the spec given for the project.

Um, yeah. I somehow read that as 7-8 gallons. Let this be a lesson for the lurkers: A person who cannot even tell the difference between '4' and '7' is able to make beer. You can too. :)

Walt

[cdh]

Indeed. If you can boil water, you're 7/8 of the way there.

[iain]

Come to think on it for a bit, I'm now intrigued by the idea of leaving one of the specialty malts slots open as a wild-card where each brewer gets to add a 1/2 lb of a malt of his/her choice.  We'll then get to see just how much effect that little of a particular malt has on a 5 gallon batch of beer.

This is a great idea...and provides even more incentive to take the time later to mail samples to as many people as possible.

At some point closer to the date, I'll try to put together a list of everyone involved. I have to say I'm getting excited about this. I've brewed beer 5 or 6 times in the past, but expect to learn a lot more from this experience than in any of the previous attempts (with the exception of the first time out, perhaps).

edited for grammer

Edited December 9, 2003 by iain (log)

[Jim]

I'm happy to try the selected style, nut brown ale. I just checked the beer judging certification program style index:

http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/style-index.html

and found, as I thought, there are various sub-categories of nut brown ale. It would be interesting to know which, if any, of these the recipe is trying to capture. I would guess it's a version of the Northern English Brown Ale, commercial examples being the Nut Brown Ales of Adnam's [i've never seen this in the US or, in fact, in Adnam's pubs] or Samuel Smith [which is widely available in the US] as well as the well-known Geordie Champagne, Newcastle Brown

Ale.

There's no reason any given recipe must seek to replicate any particular beer style, of course, but in honing ones brewing technique it's a good idea to develop an understanding what ingredients and processing options lead to what outcomes.

[kcd]

I think the idea of an home brewing forum is a great idea! 

Jim Randell

What about us wine-makers? Is there a discussion for us? We are not beer-drinkers, but doooo loooove to make wine. Down here in Texas, we are a serious minority. The one local place here in Austin is mostly a "beer place". They do sell kits, but the local expertise is definitely beer.

I would love to find somewhere where I can ask questions, and share information.

I know of one site, but it is product-connected.

Anyone here do both? Anyone have any resources?

kcd

[cdh]

I've never tried making wine. I wouldn't know where to begin... OK... yes I would... with grapes... but I really wouldn't know where to go from there. If you're into winemaking, do please start a thread and tell us a story about it. When did you first crush a grape with boozy intent?

[mklynch]

I've brewed for over 10 years - all grain and mostly original recipes. I grew my own hops and cultured many strains of yeast. The last place I was a chef let me use the kitchen on weekends (yes, I worked M-F) to brew in exchange for occasionally teaching a brewing class. I was able to knockout 35 gallons in about 7 hours.

Of course, I kegged. The magic fridge was in my music studio and my band had free access to the brews, so I had willing helpers for the brew. We'd bring our instruments in and jam during the slow parts and I'd cook up some lunch. Was really funny when the security guards came through to check the walk in temps!

I'd ask what the band felt like drinking next and write a recipe. When I was in culinary school a million years ago, I brewed 5 gallons every Monday, kept notes and learned how various grains affected the outcome.

I changed jobs, quit the band, moved, and drink mostly wine these days, but still have a deep love of the process. I love the smell of the wort when the hops start going in.

The most important thing, above everything else (I mean WAY above

EVERYTHING else) is sanitation. I think a wort chiller or some method of chilling the wort to yeast pitching temperatue as fast as you can is essential. The wort is a perfect gowing medium for all kinds of beasts that want to eat your yeast's food and turn your beer to slime. You want your yeast to have the best head start.

I always fermented all the way in glass with blow off tubes going into a bucket, then when fermentation slowed down, plastic air locks. I had a big enough storeroom for 7 carboys. Not enough walkin space to lager though.

I have a new neighbor who is setting up his brew system, so I hope to get my brew spoon wet again soon.

Best of luck!

[cdh]

As the size of our brewing group increases, the thought occurred to me that it would be fun to actually get together to sample the products. We should all chime in with our whereabouts and see if any significant proportion of us are geographically convenient to one another.

I'll start- I'm in the greater East Coast megalopolis, Philly locally, though not opposed to making a run as far as DC or NYC for festivites. Will also have cause to be in Austin, TX in March sometime.

[Jim]

Good idea to locate the brewers! I am in the Seattle area [Mercer Island] and am able to range north or south quite easily as I have a home in Rancho Mirage CA [Palm Springs area] and just finished working in San Francisco.

[theakston]

Arlington, VA here (DC area) also not opposed to making a run to Brewers Art or Monks - I mean Baltimore or Phillie!

[iain]

I'm in NYC - Brooklyn to be exact, though I'm not opposed to making a special trip into Manhattan.

Edited December 15, 2003 by iain (log)

[iain]

My humble recipe suggestion for the project-- a nut brown ale:

Ingredients

6.6 lb. Amber Liquid Malt Extract

½ lb. Crystal Malt 60°L

½ lb. Carapils Malt 20°L

½ lb. Toasted Malt 25°L

¼ lb. Chocolate Malt 338°L

1 ½ oz. Kent Goldings U.K. Hops (Bittering)

1 oz. Fuggles Hops (Finishing)

Wyeast # 1098 XL British Ale Yeast

All of the above should be readily obtained through a quality homebrew shop...  the °L notations should serve as a fairly universal indicator that any brew shop staffer should recognize and be able to get for you.  The hop factor can be kicked up to each brewer's taste,  insofar as the variety and the quantity are both easily variable, and the true hop-heads amongst us could, if the fancy took them, dry hop it at the end too.

I've been looking on Northern Brewer's site to price ingredients and make sure they stock everything I'll need for this project. I'm having a little trouble with the Carapils Malt. The recipe calls for .5 lbs of Carapils at 20°L. Northen Brewer offers one Carapils at 1.5°L - a significant difference. About Carapils, they state:

Briess Carapils.  1.5° L. Carapils is a dextrin malt. Its main function is to add foam stability, body, and palate fullness to otherwise thin worts. Dextrin malt also significantly enhances head retention. Although it appears darker than pale malt, it has a clear, glassy endosperm and does not contribute significantly to beer color or flavor. Must be mashed with other diastatic grains.

This leads me to think that Carapils isn't available at 20°L. Is this assumption correct?

They offer a belgian "caramel pilsner" malt at 6°L, and Dingemans Caravienne at 21°L. Would this latter choice work for the recipe at hand?

NB's grain selection is available on this page.

Is everyone still in for Jan. 10th? I'm looking forward to it!

[cdh]

Re Carapils-

Specs on this stuff seem to be all over the place. My homebrew shop carries 20L Carapils from Munton&Fison... I've found another place on the web that carries a Carapils rated 9.9-13.6, and googling will get you references to 7L Carapils and a 10L Crystal marketed as a Carapils by a Belgian maltster.

Chalk one up to market variations, and grab what you can and see how it turns out. If I were you I'd grab the Caravienne since you'll get the color and the dextrins, and we're shooting for a pretty brown ale as it is.

I've also noticed that Chocolate malt is variable too, having spotted 600+L chocolates, while our recipe calls for 338L... same advice... grab what you can and see what happens... just make a note of what you used so that we will gain some knowledge when/if we sit down and taste the products of our project.

btw- Merry Christmas, all!

edit to add this link to a very well-stocked-looking online brew shop that appears to have all or almost all of the variations on these grains.

Edited December 25, 2003 by cdh (log)

[iain]

Re Carapils-

Specs on this stuff seem to be all over the place. My homebrew shop carries 20L Carapils from Munton&Fison... I've found another place on the web that carries a Carapils rated 9.9-13.6, and googling will get you references to 7L Carapils and a 10L Crystal marketed as a Carapils by a Belgian maltster.

Chalk one up to market variations, and grab what you can and see how it turns out. If I were you I'd grab the Caravienne since you'll get the color and the dextrins, and we're shooting for a pretty brown ale as it is.

I've also noticed that Chocolate malt is variable too, having spotted 600+L chocolates, while our recipe calls for 338L... same advice... grab what you can and see what happens... just make a note of what you used so that we will gain some knowledge when/if we sit down and taste the products of our project.

btw- Merry Christmas, all!

edit to add this link to a very well-stocked-looking online brew shop that appears to have all or almost all of the variations on these grains.

Great...thanks for the link. I like Northern Brewer, but I'm willing to try elsewhere. When I do order supplies, I'll post back here so we can see what variations people are doing.

[cdh]

Well... in looking through the very well stocked Brewsource.com site, I did notice a couple of less desirable aspects-- 1) minimum order of 1 lb of each grain and 2) no obvious way of requesting your grain be cracked. They appear to be aiming at a much more sophisticated homebrewer who already has a grain mill and storage for unused portions of grain. I've zapped them a note asking if they'll do a special recipe package order, but (not surprisingly) haven't yet heard back from them.

Northern Brewer seems very flexible in their ordering, and will crack grain for you... you just have to be willing to substitute a little. Plusses, minuses all around. I'f you're dead set on doing the exact recipe, you can order directly from my local shop who promulgated the recipe: www.keystonehomebrew.com and it won't cost much more than ordering from anyplace else. .. $34 +shipping as opposed to about $32 with shipping included when ordering from morebeer or northernbrewer or brewsource. Since it is a 20 minute drive for me, and they're good folk, I'm just going to pick up their kit from them.

[iain]

Well... in looking through the very well stocked Brewsource.com site, I did notice a couple of less desirable aspects-- 1) minimum order of 1 lb of each grain and 2) no obvious way of requesting your grain be cracked. They appear to be aiming at a much more sophisticated homebrewer who already has a grain mill and storage for unused portions of grain. I've zapped them a note asking if they'll do a special recipe package order, but (not surprisingly) haven't yet heard back from them.

Northern Brewer seems very flexible in their ordering, and will crack grain for you... you just have to be willing to substitute a little. Plusses, minuses all around. I'f you're dead set on doing the exact recipe, you can order directly from my local shop who promulgated the recipe: www.keystonehomebrew.com and it won't cost much more than ordering from anyplace else. .. $34 +shipping as opposed to about $32 with shipping included when ordering from morebeer or northernbrewer or brewsource. Since it is a 20 minute drive for me, and they're good folk, I'm just going to pick up their kit from them.

I'm just going to order from Northern Brewer, I think, mostly because I've used them a few times in the past and they seem well-equiped for mail order. It will be interesting to see the differences in the brews - especially if we get to pass some around. I'll probably be placing my order in a day or so.

Let's do a headcount. Who's in?

[cdh]

Have purchased all the grains now, and am following the recipe verbatim in that regard. Will diverge in my choices of yeast and hops. Am using Willamette hops in place of the fuggles, and am using Wyeast's Ringwood yeast b/c the Wyeast website made it appear that recommended british ale yeast was from Whitbread, and I have always hated their beers.

[theakston]

I'm still in. I've dusted off my brewpot and will be heading for supplies this weekend.

Chris - if you're using ringwood yeast make sure you aerate it well -- it works best in an "open" fermenter - a bucket is fine but an airlocked carboy may be a problem. Some brewers really hate ringwood but I think it's fine providing it gets enough oxygen, and it needs a little "rest" to get rid of excess Diacetyl.

Edited January 2, 2004 by theakston (log)

[cdh]

Theakston--

Thanks for the tip. I usually ferment in a bucket with an airlock. Maybe I'll just just drape it with a towel for this batch if the Ringwood really likes lots of oxygen. To oxygenate the pitched wort I usually just take a whisk to the wort until a good froth forms.

[cdh]

I'm just going to order from Northern Brewer, I think, mostly because I've used them a few times in the past and they seem well-equiped for mail order. It will be interesting to see the differences in the brews - especially if we get to pass some around. I'll probably be placing my order in a day or so.

Let's do a headcount. Who's in?

Iain-

I'm very much interested in seeing what the Northern Brewer ingredients produce with this recipe. I'm in NYC all the time, so I'll gladly bring along a sixpack of mine some time in exchange for a sixpack of yours. Anybody else who happens to be in the greater megalopolis is welcome to exchange too. Once the stuff is bottled, we'll have to set up the swap.

[iain]

I've ordered ingredients and a few supplies from Northern Brewer, making the following substitutions:

Carapils Malt 20°L -> Dingemans Caravienne 21°L

Chocolate Malt 338°L -> Crisp Chocolate. 625-635° L

Seeing that the chocolate malt is so much darker, I might use a little less than called for. It's going in at such a low amount that I assume it's more for color and flavor than body. Thoughts?

[iain]

Headcount:

Confirmed for the 10th:

cdh

theakston

iain

wnissen

Jim

Rumored:

Chef Fowke

Selski

HungryChris

M3brewboy

Can all who are on board please confirm that are? If I've missed anyone, please post here. I'm looking forward to trying as many of these as possible. Hopefully an NYC meeting will work out.

edited again to update "confirmed" vs. "rumored" list

Edited January 6, 2004 by iain (log)

[wnissen]

I'm still in to brew, but I'm 3000 miles from NYC and haven't been since high school, so I'll be going solo unless someone in the S.F. Bay Area wants to join in.

Walt