A Chef's Beer

[cdh]

I also think we might need a "brewmaster" to lead this project. Someone who has done this before and understands the ins and outs. I've brewed a handful of times in the past, but not for a few years - and I've never really looked into water chemistry issues, caramelization properties of different grains, etc. Anyone else think this is necessary? Anyone want to volunteer?

I'm in total agreement that we need somebody who knows what's going on to lead this brigade. I know that there is a whole lot that I don't know about what's going on in brewing...

The caramelization thing re grain is simple- when you roast something with sugar in it, some of the sugar caramelizes. Caramelized sugar is what darkens beer. Lovibond ratings express how much darkening a particular malt will contribute to a batch of beer. See this article for a good discussion of the issue.

As to water chemistry, I know nothing whatsoever about the mechanics... only that it is generally reported to make a difference in the outcome. I've never tried to figure out what the water in my well is specifically suited to brewing, and have been reasonably pleased with everything I've brewed with it, so I've not ever tried to doctor the water chemistry by throwing gypsum or epsom salts or other such things into my brew kettle.

It would be good to see if we can get a beer pro onto our project to act as moderator and one-man tasting panel.

[M3brewboy]

Count me in! I'm an all-grain brewer but can easily adjust a kit, malt extract, or partial grain recipe intoa an all-grain.

I usually hang out at the Homebrewers digest. It is a very large daily e-mail of dozens of long posts that take place during the day. These guys are way serious. Extremely technical. These are just Homebrewers, but they have taken it a few levels up and "kicked it up a notch". I only go there just to learn. Most of time it is too technical and I learn nothing, but it can be very educational.

My wife participates in the hobby of brewing also. She loves it. She may even be more into it than I am. How lucky am I?

Gary

[jhlurie]

Normally I don't let it be known beforehand which topics we will be placing on the "Hot Topics" links located on eGullet.com's front page, but I'm making an exception this time. This topic will be on that list's next update, because we always enjoy promoting "community projects". They are good for eGullet, and good for the sense of community here.

If you guys are willing to wait on implementation until that happens (we change the Hot Topics every Friday--so the next opportunity is Dec. 5) then you might get some increased activity/participation here.

Of course that shouldn't get in the way of planning. And it's YOUR project, so I'm not going to dictate anything--just advising you of a possible increase of attention (it doesn't always pan out that way... sometimes the Hot Topics lead to a lot of new attention, but occasionally it doesn't seem to make the slightest difference...)

[iain]

Normally I don't let it be known beforehand which topics we will be placing on the "Hot Topics" links located on eGullet.com's front page, but I'm making an exception this time. This topic will be on that list's next update, because we always enjoy promoting "community projects". They are good for eGullet, and good for the sense of community here.

If you guys are willing to wait on implementation until that happens (we change the Hot Topics every Friday--so the next opportunity is Dec. 5) then you might get some increased activity/participation here.

Of course that shouldn't get in the way of planning. And it's YOUR project, so I'm not going to dictate anything--just advising you of a possible increase of attention (it doesn't always pan out that way... sometimes the Hot Topics lead to a lot of new attention, but occasionally it doesn't seem to make the slightest difference...)

Actually...waiting would be better for me. I have to order stuff online and we haven't even picked a recipe yet. Right now, it looks like we have four of us in on this project - Chef Fowke, cdh, M3brewboy, and me. I don't think we need a ton of people to do this well, but the more the merrier. Of course, if we do end up with just a handful, sending bottles to all involved is much more feasible.

[cdh]

A brief delay is not a bad thing in my book either. I should just have enough bottles freed up for another batch by now, though my bottling bucket is doing douible duty as a secondary fermentor for some cider I've had going for a few weeks. By the time we get going, that should give the cider enough time to do its thing (or I'll have "sampled" it out of existence...)

Cider, btw, is the easiest brew project I've ever done. Acquire several gallon jugs of really good fresh cider, pour into primary fermentor, add pound of honey, stir tiil frothy, add wine yeast, walk away.

[trillium]

I hope you're not too disappointed with your cider... we had so much success with our ales, lagers (yes, you can do it without special equipment but you need to live somewhere where winters are cold enough) and fruit wines we decided to do a cider. We used a a wyeast for cider (don't remember which one, I think it was the sweet one) and it fermented to stone dry, so that all that was left was the citric acid. Very tasty mixed with other things (fresh apple juice or a dry sour cherry wine) but not so palatable on its own. I guess they pasteurize the bottles in Normandy after they've allowed the yeast enough time to carbonate the cider but not enough time to run through all the sugars. Those yeast are crazy buggars.

regards,

trillium

[theakston]

I could be in if we can hold off for a while - I havent brewed since we remodeled the house so I need to find my gear and check that it is still servicable.

First we need to agree on a recipe, then shop for the ingredients. We should plan on using live yeast and make a yeast starter a couple of days before the main brewing event.

I was thinking how about an extract / grain mix (an extract mix with some steeped grains to make it more interesting - as well as some added dried hops of course).

Then I thought about the initial desire to play around with maple syrup.

How about a maple porter? Any good recipes? 'tis the season for the likes of a maple porter I think!

Cheers!

[iain]

I like the idea of extract plus grain, but I'm not so sure I want to be adding "exotic" flavoring ingredients like maple for this first group outing. Perhaps we should keep it a little more simple. Personally, I could go for a brown ale with plenty of hoppy bite - similar to Brooklyn Brown. Anyone?

[Jim]

I've been on "vacation" moving back to Seattle and ripping up my kitchen for upgrade, but now that I'm here I'd love to participate in the "one brew type, many brew tokens" project that's being discussed. I do need to refind my brew equipment and the like as well, so waiting a bit would be good.

On water chemistry, I'd suggest that we shouldn't worry yet about making it all the same, since that's a bit difficult because each local water would require [potentially] different adjustments and they aren't all that easy to calculate and implement; the accuracy of the adjustments would, IMO, generate as much variation [of the unknown unknown variety] as it would be striving to eliminate. Each brewer having info on their local water chemistry, however, would be one of the key variables to track for the project. For your local water chemistry, your water provider should give you one of it's analytical reports; note, that there is some seasonality effect for many waters. For wells, it's a sample to a lab for the analysis. So unless eveyone started with distilled water and used the same recipe for adjustment to the water type being sought, the water chemistry adjustment could be a later exploration subject. I'd think that the differences contributed by the different waters to everyones' beers would be an interesting output of this undertaking.

[iain]

Chef Fowke, you kicked this whole thing off. Are you ok with waiting?

[HungryChris]

If you folks don't mind, I'd like to join in as well. I haven't brewed in a few years, but would love to go find my stuff and have another bash at it. I love the idea of everyone doing the same recipe. I could be ready by the weekend of Dec 13, provided the ingredients are decided upon fairly soon. Cheers!

HC

[wnissen]

Hi folks,

I'm an extract brewer who would like to participate as well. I've heard lots of good stuff about Northern Brewer, but buy all my supplies from the superb Beer, Beer, and More Beer (http://www.morebeer.com) because they're close by. Anyone else in the San Francisco Bay Area interested?

Walt

[Chef Fowke]

Well! From reading all the threads I think we should wait until the first of January to brew. I have a few calls out to some brew masters for help that may or may not pan out.

Lets set a budget...I would say around $15us to brew 20liters of beer. Lets not worry about water quality or fancy ingredients in the first brew. Lets do it really simple and produce something we all can drink without a scotch chaser to dull the after taste.

I will try to contact some 'chef friends' and get them to participate in the projects. Chefs all love beer and they tend to be able to produce great descriptors of flavours.

I also work with a great sommelier (she administers the sommeliers test in Canada). I will get her to be present when I taste my batch that I brew.

Now all we need is to see who is going to participate. Lets all confirm on this thread this week.... After the December 14th we will know the list of the participants.

I cannot wait to learn more about brewing! This is great.

Post Script: I still think we should get an International kit to start with. Maybe a kit that is a no brainer that a brew master can walk us through and explain the different stages of fermenting and brewing. Otherwise some of us are going to get discouraged and quit this project because our first batch is going to be a gross batch of fermenting sludge.

[Jim]

Put me on the list of brewers to participate! Particularly after 1 Jan., for I should have means of brewing sorted by then. Any recipe is ok with me; my first brewed beer was an international recipe of "Dogbolter" a fine beer [in it's pub form] from the [perhaps] now-defunct X-and-Firkin pubs in London. It sufficiently whetted my appetite for brewing more, so, that said, let's get ready to brew, taste & learn.

[cdh]

I think a $ 15 (excuse the spaces b/t the $ and the numbers, but funky symbols sometimes appear when the $xx appears as a string.) budget is a little optimistic. A 1.5 Kg can of malt syrup costs me 10.50 at my homebrew shop, and a packet of Wyeast is 5 or more. Doing this for $ 25, on the other hand could be a reasonable budget.

I'm not opposed to picking a universal kit, but would suggest that the $ 10 cans one sees, i.e. are not the whole story. Those kits are about half the fermentables required to make a batch, and the directions usually make it sound OK to use white sugar for the second half of the fermentables. This is really sub-optimal . It destroys the body and mouthfeel the beer could have had and gives an off flavor as well that you should never taste in a quality beer.

One of those kits would require the purchase of either dry malt extract or liquid malt extract to supplement its inadequacies... so the idea of steering clear of non-kit options just isn't workable. If you have to find and buy 3 pounds of malt extract, why not just get 6 and some hops and be done without ever thinking of a kit?

Edited December 7, 2003 by cdh (log)

[cdh]

I hope you're not too disappointed with your cider... we had so much success with our ales, lagers (yes, you can do it without special equipment but you need to live somewhere where winters are cold enough) and fruit wines we decided to do a cider.  We used a a wyeast for cider (don't remember which one, I think it was the sweet one) and it fermented to stone dry, so that all that was left was the citric acid.  Very tasty mixed with other things (fresh apple juice or a dry sour cherry wine) but not so palatable on its own.

I see what you mean about the cider getting a lot too dry. Glad that it was fine and tasty with enough residual sugar back on Thanksgiving when I poured off 1.5 gallons into my Tap-A-Draft wotzit. and brought it along to dinner.

In the week and change since Thanksgiving, my cider has taken a downright acetic turn... hope there isn't any "mother of vinegar" in there accounting for it... Anyway, I freed up my bottling bucket and put the last of the cider into a gallon jug and left it sitting outside in the cold. Hopefully it will turn out fine. Or maybe I'll have to follow your lead and cut it with some fresh cider.

Edited December 7, 2003 by cdh (log)

[cdh]

I'm an extract brewer who would like to participate as well. I've heard lots of good stuff about Northern Brewer, but buy all my supplies from the superb Beer, Beer, and More Beer (http://www.morebeer.com) because they're close by. Anyone else in the San Francisco Bay Area interested?

Walt-

I've purchased stuff from morebeer.com before and been pleased... Do you know what's going on w/ them lately? Their site has been down for the past couple of days. Are they still in business? Is this just a technical glitch?

Edited December 7, 2003 by cdh (log)

[cdh]

My humble recipe suggestion for the project-- a nut brown ale:

Ingredients

6.6 lb. Amber Liquid Malt Extract

½ lb. Crystal Malt 60°L

½ lb. Carapils Malt 20°L

½ lb. Toasted Malt 25°L

¼ lb. Chocolate Malt 338°L

1 ½ oz. Kent Goldings U.K. Hops (Bittering)

1 oz. Fuggles Hops (Finishing)

Wyeast # 1098 XL British Ale Yeast

All of the above should be readily obtained through a quality homebrew shop... the °L notations should serve as a fairly universal indicator that any brew shop staffer should recognize and be able to get for you. The hop factor can be kicked up to each brewer's taste, insofar as the variety and the quantity are both easily variable, and the true hop-heads amongst us could, if the fancy took them, dry hop it at the end too.

[cdh]

While I'm at it, we need a list of the required equipment that any prospective brewer should have handy for the purposes of taking part in this project. I'll brainstorm up a list starting with the first things that would be required and moving on chronologically. Feel free to chime in if I appear to have forgotten anything important.

A large kettle, somewhere in the 4-5 gallon size range, at least.

A big spoon for stirring the contents of the kettle (a hand blender doesn't do so bad for that purpose either).

A can opener (or a scale if you're using dry malt extract rather than liquid)

A large fine nylon (or cheesecloth) mesh bag that can hold 1.75 lb of crushed grain. The bigger the better.

A thermometer.

A timer

Muslin hop socks.

Antibacterial sanitizer- I'm partial to activated oxygen powder.

A primary fermentor with a lid and airlock.

5 feet of surgical tubing and a racking cane.

A bottling bucket.

Priming sugar.

A bottling attachment for your surgical tubing.

Bottles and enclosures and a means of sanitizing and sealing them.

Edited December 7, 2003 by cdh (log)

[iain]

I'm glad someone else suggested we wait until after the new year; I was going to pull out if it happened sooner. That said, I think that CDH is right on with the recipe suggestion and equipment list. We definitely shouldn't be brewing a pre-hopped kit. It's really doesn't take much more brain to boil up the separate ingredients rather than a single can of goop, and the end result is not only more tasty, but also more educational.

[Chef Fowke]

agreed.

[theakston]

I'm in. And the nut brown recipe sounds fine.

[iain]

The Nut Brown recipe sounds good to me too. Is this a recipe you've used in the past, cdh? I think we'll need some sort of eGullet specific name for the brew.

Does Jan 10 (saturday) work for everyone as the brewing date?

[cdh]

This particular nut brown is not one I've brewed before, but has been on my to-do list for a while. My last many batches have been alternating between wit, Belgian black, and abbey dubbel. (all a bit funky and off the beaten track for this particular project.)

At the end of the summer I brewed something closely related to a nut brown (3 lbs of amber malt, 3 of pale malt, 1lb of Special B and an oz of Pearl hops with the Thames Valley Wyeast), but have not done a whole and proper nut brown for probably 8 or 9 years. I want to see what the toasted and the chocolate malts do to it. The ingredients list comes from my local homebrew shop, www.keystonehomebrew.com, who are extraordinarily talented at putting together good recipes.

If we want to tweak it even further and create something truly original to eGullet I'd suggest maybe striking the toasted and adding a 1/4 lb of Special B to it b/c I happen to like that malt and not enough people use it... and I'd probably pick a wackier yeast too, but that is my particular taste rearing its head again.

Come to think on it for a bit, I'm now intrigued by the idea of leaving one of the specialty malts slots open as a wild-card where each brewer gets to add a 1/2 lb of a malt of his/her choice. We'll then get to see just how much effect that little of a particular malt has on a 5 gallon batch of beer.

So, for those purchasing ingredients, strike out the toasted malt and pick something that appeals to you. A very small personal touch to make each batch different and unique to its brewer. (And a great way to strike up a conversation with the staff/owners of your local homebrew shop to hit them up for recommendations... and for those ordering stuff from Northern Brewer or such, read the descriptions of their caramelized malts and pick what appeals.)

Jan 10 sounds like a good day to brew.

Edited December 8, 2003 by cdh (log)

[Selski]

Count me in!

It's been well over a year since i've brewerd my own beer and high time I started again. Reading this thread really got the juices flowing.

Anyone reading this thread that may be curious but somewhat intimidated about brewing your own, don't be. It's easier than you think. My first brew was just drinkable and a little flat. It didn't help that it was half corn sugar. By my third brew I was making an India Pale ale (toasted oak chips work great). It was absolutely delicious and I must say, I wad quite proud of myself. The two most important things to remember when starting off are to follow directions and keep everything clean.

After my local homebrewing supplier shut down, I have been forced to search the web for supplies. May I suggest: Midwest Homebrewiing and Winemaking Supplies. They have an extensive, easy to navigate website.

Brew kits are available on the net from $40-$300. An intermediate kit from Midwest is $65, including a glass carboy, fermenting bucket and bottling bucket and spigot. You can find it at: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/equipkit.asp

Happy Brewing!