Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 1

[Jason Perlow]

It would be like William Burroughs doing a Nike commercial.

William Burroughs is older than dirt. He can afford to sell out at 80 years old. Bayless still has some life left in him.

William Burroughs is dirt. He died in ’97.

See? Look where that commercial got him. Cashed out before he checked out.

[Richard Kilgore]

To speak to the inertia issue that Steven brought up --- This is one of the reasons that it is highly unlikely that the sandwich in question is anything resembling a step in the right direction. It is not that difficult for restaurants to make decent burgers, sandwiches and other dishes for only a little more than BK and its FF betters. As I recall it was in the early 1970s that large chain restaurants shifted from fresh food preped locally in a commissary and distributed daily to their locations, with some done on site. The advent of the microwave oven had something to do with the changes.

Perhaps there is a FF historian here who knows more about this period, but I recall that the resulting quality change was the inverse of the change in management control. Management understandably prefers to remove unpredictability from operations, and can lose sight of other important aspects of a business (any business) in the process. I do recall being paricularly appaled in the change from fresh hashbrowns to frozen hasbrowns in one chain. I do not recall any of these restaurants having a problem with employees being able to produce a consistent enough product. These changes provided better management control, or sense of control, over portion control and accountability for waste primarily.

Organizations change in the direction of less management control slowly if ever at all, though ocassionally radical changes are attempted. I expect that the established burger chains are more likely to go under than to make the kind of changes we are are discussing. And regardless of whatever RB thinks about his adv, I have a hard time thinking that any marketing professional would think of it as anything other than adding an additional item that will attract another tiny segment into the stores to compete with similar products at the other FF chains. You don't want to lose a car full of burger eaters to the competition because one of six has to have a chicken sandwich.

On the other hand, there is a huge opportunity for others to fill the slowly emerging consumer demand for better, fresher, tastier fast food. Today I had a Salmon Teryaki Rice Bowl, $4.92, for lunch. It was tasty, and it was attractive.

[Janedujour]

Bayless is shopping in a market for fresh ingredients, ala his PBS show. He then ditches that plan and instead gets a sandwich at Burger King. This sends a message that is exactly the opposite of anything Bayless or a sympathizer could possibly support.

- The sandwich is not good and Bayless had nothing to do with its design.

I couldn't agree more FG.

And to make a point about Clapton's beer commercial. That still burns in my memory. The guy's in a recovery program, was a dope addict! Did he need the money???

Let's hope Rick will come to his senses like Hugh(had the most beautiful woman in the world as a girlfriend) Grant did the day after he was arrested for soliciting a hooker and say "What the f**kl was I thinkin'?"

I vote that he donates all of his earnings to the farmers he depends on. If they're still speaking to him.

[jhlurie]

It would be like William Burroughs doing a Nike commercial.

William Burroughs is older than dirt. He can afford to sell out at 80 years old. Bayless still has some life left in him.

Besides, its hardly the same thing. I actually had a serious point in there which seems to have been missed. Nobody is going to mistake William Burroughs for an expert on athletic shoes. So his "sell out", while perhaps distasteful to some, doesn't really mislead people. It's like Emeril selling toothpaste. Does anyone really think Emeril is an expert in oral hygiene?

But Mr. Bayless is talking about, and misleading us about, his area of expertise.

[Jonathan Day]

And from the same webpage, here is Rick's

Essential Learning #4: Processed foods, many of the already-prepared foods and most fast foods have no place in everyday eating. As a believer in the resilience of the human body, I can’t deride a Big Mac every once in a while (I’ll even admit that I do like that special sauce). I simply decided that it has no place in my everyday breakfasts, lunches or dinners.

and

It’s telling that if you remove from the world’s traditional cuisines any influences of Western fast foods or industrialized or prepared foods, most of them have developed more-or-less the same approach to nourishment—the grocery store-perimeter approach. They focus on a variety of simply prepared fresh foods. Modest amounts of deliciously seasoned food that balance the complex carbohydrates of fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes. Nothing processed, all of it "low on the food chain" (as in "natural, unprocessed"), with modest amounts of meat and fish, and just a few sweets.

As I pointed out many many pages ago in this debate, you don't have to go to the Chef's Collaborative to find the contradiction here. You just have to look at Rick Bayless's own web site.

[tommy]

I confess I haven't yet been to a BK because walking to one is a project and a half...not to mention I've been trapped in the office this entire week.

there's a BK on 47th off of 3rd.

[eliotmorgan]

Amen

[Kayakado]

I was curious about how BK came to choose Bayless. After reading some of the posts ...I have a theory. The chairman of BK is John Dasburg formerly head of Northwestern Airlines (you know the one that kept all those passengers trapped on the plane on the runway for hours and hours).

Dasburg was an executive with NW, DHL and Marriott before BK. I theorize that RB doing airline menus somehow brought RB to BK's attention or Dasburg was based in Minn, MN and may have frequented RB's retaurants. I also theorize I am the only one to even care about this kind of minutae but what the heck....

[Steve Klc]

Kayakado--very intriguing hypothesis. You're not the only one as curious. In fact, you've opened another avenue of inquiry: were seeds for RB's hypocrisy sown long before BK?

[ronnie_suburban]

Ronnie, again, all you have to do is take the ad on its own terms: there's Rick shopping in a market for fresh produce, making it all sound so tantalizing; cut to Rick eating a Burger King sandwich and having the gall to represent it as a valid surrogate for all that fresh wholesome stuff. That is a very direct message that is detrimental to -- nay, chips away at -- the kind of consumer awareness and perception that will help improve fast food. A step in the wrong direction, if you will.

Steve, I understand the point you're making. But, I'm looking at the commercial in the context of a bigger picture, and my feeling is that, even if doing the ad represents hypocrisy on Bayless' part, it likely won't have a negative effect on his overall efforts to bring change. I'm not willing to consider the ad in a singular light. My belief that Bayless will continue to do good work makes the ad a less significant event. I'm waiting to see what comes next from him before I cast judgment.

As I posted earlier, I think it will be very interesting to see what CC's "official" response will be. Bayless has earned the right to sell his reputation and I choose to view him as a person who has made a change (even if it was a poor or seemingly incongruous one) rather than as a hypocrite. That said, I agree about CC...if they look the other way on this, I think it will seriously harm (if not destroy) them as an organization. If Bayless had resigned from CC before making this deal with BK, would it have made his doing this ad any less egregious? It seems pretty clear that it would have at least saved the CC from the tough decision that lay ahead for them.

=R=

[eliotmorgan]

I was curious about how BK came to choose Bayless.  After reading some of the posts ...I have a theory.  The chairman of BK is John Dasburg formerly head of Northwestern Airlines (you know the one that kept all those passengers trapped on the plane on the runway for hours and hours). 

Dasburg was an executive with NW, DHL and Marriott before BK.  I theorize that RB doing airline menus somehow brought RB to BK's attention or Dasburg was based in Minn, MN and may have frequented RB's retaurants.

Who had the power to keep those passangers trapped on the plane, or to change the menu?

I don't think Rick Bayless actually read the ingredients in that sandwich.

Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left. Back and to the left.

[hollywood]

I agree with Steven on this one. Its not like Bayless is just a regular member of the organization where his actions are of limited importance -- he's an officer and member of the Board of Overseers. His endorsement of Burger King puts the entire reputation of Chefs Collaborative at risk and is divergent with the Mission Statement that Bayless assisted in authoring.

So, excommunicate him!

[hollywood]

LeRoy Neiman created LeRoy Neiman's posters. Rick Bayless had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of this "palatable" sandwich. Exposing people to LeRoy Neiman's posters exposes them to LeRoy Neiman's work. Exposing people to Burger King's sandwich does not expose them to Rick Bayless's work. The only exposure is to Rick Bayless in a television advertisement, in which the theme is "forget about all this fresh produce; Burger King gives it all to you in this palatable sandwich."

Isn't this really the point? Neiman is serving up crappy posters and trying to sell them for wads of dough as art that he has made. Bayless is just shilling a sandwich he never made. Anybody can see that. It's advertising.

[hollywood]

It would be like William Burroughs doing a Nike commercial.

Actually, I can see him getting off on the "woosh."

[hollywood]

Let's hope Rick will come to his senses like Hugh(had the most beautiful woman in the world as a girlfriend)  Grant did the day after he was arrested for soliciting a hooker and say "What the f**kl was I thinkin'?"

Baby did a baaad baaad thing!

[Jinmyo]

I was curious about how BK came to choose Bayless.  After reading some of the posts ...I have a theory.  The chairman of BK is John Dasburg formerly head of Northwestern Airlines (you know the one that kept all those passengers trapped on the plane on the runway for hours and hours). 

Dasburg was an executive with NW, DHL and Marriott before BK.  I theorize that RB doing airline menus somehow brought RB to BK's attention or Dasburg was based in Minn, MN and may have frequented RB's retaurants.  I also theorize I am the only one to even care about this kind of minutae but what the heck....

I'm interested too.

And of course in how just much filthy lucre Rick is now rolling in. Ankle depth? Waist?

I mean I hope it was jusn't just a few bob.

[hollywood]

I'm interested too.

And of course in how just much filthy lucre Rick is now rolling in. Ankle depth? Waist?

I mean I hope it wasn't just a few bob.

I'm thinking low 6 figures. But that's a total guess.

[slkinsey]

I'm interested too.

And of course in how just much filthy lucre Rick is now rolling in. Ankle depth? Waist?

I mean I hope it wasn't just a few bob.

I'm thinking low 6 figures. But that's a total guess.

As it so happens, I have some friends who are actors and have appeared in many television commercials. When you're talking about a major, nation wide, heavy rotation television advertising campaign, a "no-name" principal actor can expect to make around $100,000 once the initial fee and all the residuals are added up. A major, nation wide, heavy rotation television advertising campaign with a celebrity endorsement typically starts at around 1,000,000 dollars for the celebrity. Bayless might be making a bit less than this, simply because he is not quite up there in "Emeril land" in terms of name recognition... but I can virtually guarantee his compensation was not in the low six figures.

[SobaAddict70]

there's a BK on 47th off of 3rd. 

You mean I actually have to exert myself physically?

McD's is way closer (to the office and to my apartment building).

Soba

[hollywood]

Bayless might be making a bit less than this, simply because he is not quite up there in "Emeril land" in terms of name recognition... but I can virtually guarantee his compensation was not in the low six figures.

Gosh! Guess he can afford the Wine Clip now.

[jilly rizzo]

rick bayless, god bless him

is in for a phat pay-day. who can blame him?

jesus christ, if he is getting six figures,

the more fun he can have.

stop pissing in the man's corn-flakes.

everyone has a price. if you don't like it,

ignore it, don't buy burger king. take a deep breath

let it go. this too shall pass. it is just like people you would never

expect showing up on the Food Network.

everyone has to make their nut.

sophie's choice.

Edited October 11, 2003 by jilly rizzo (log)

[jilly rizzo]

another point,

who the *f* knows rick bayless from adam?

if i had not been channel surfuning PBS one day in late october, 1999,

i would have thougt rick bayless was alton brown's less dickier older brother.

do you think any of BK's regular customers are going to be swayed by a pitch

from, what is is name? oh yeah, Rick Bayless...

look out Compton. the homies gonna be all up in yo' BK now that

the main man RB, gave a shout out to BK. hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, fo' shizzle...

Rizzle Bayizzle in the Hizzle.

with my mind on my money and my money on my mind.

Edited October 10, 2003 by jilly rizzo (log)

[tommy]

jilly, i think people are offended at his hypocrisy more than his selling-out. personally, i couldn't care less about the sell-out issue, or that he might actually like BK or fast food, or many of the other issues presented in this thread. the hypocrisy thing, though, seems pretty clear and undeniable.

[jilly rizzo]

tommy-

you sure play a mean pinball,

but what if RB actually believes what he is pitching.

that does not make him a hypocrite.

maybe he is all in to fight the good long battle.

regardless, he did it all for the nookie.

Edited October 10, 2003 by jilly rizzo (log)

[tommy]

but what if RB actually believes what he is pitching.

that does not make him a hypocrite.

i think that his association with the CC changes that.