Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 1

[MatthewB]

But if one's objection to Burger King is "this is an evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core corporation that is part of a larger evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core segment of the market, and I'm fundamentally opposed to the entire concept of a business like this continuing to exist for one more second," . . .

Where did Bayless say something akin to this?

[Jinmyo]

But if one's objection to Burger King is "this is an evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core corporation that is part of a larger evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core segment of the market, and I'm fundamentally opposed to the entire concept of a business like this continuing to exist for one more second," . . .

Where did Bayless say something akin to this?

Where did Shaw say that Bayless said something akin to this?

[MatthewB]

But if one's objection to Burger King is "this is an evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core corporation that is part of a larger evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core segment of the market, and I'm fundamentally opposed to the entire concept of a business like this continuing to exist for one more second," . . .

Where did Bayless say something akin to this?

Where did Shaw say that Bayless said something akin to this?

Ahhh, this thread isn't about Bayless anymore?

[Fat Guy]

See above, all the seasonal, local, artisanal, environmentally sound, sustainable, blah blah blah . . . proclamations from Chefs Collaborative plus his Frontera Farmer Foundation to which you're encouraged to make your tax-deductible donation in order to realize Bayless's vision of "a year-round interchange between sustainable farmers and chefs or market patrons, in which the seasonal products of local agriculture provide the foundation for regional cuisine and the assurance of a sustainable future." Not to mention, "Rick and Deann Bayless, founders of Frontera Grill and Topolobampo, along with the restaurants’ staff, created the Foundation out of their concern for struggling farmers and the importance of local produce to the vitality of Chicago’s culinary culture. Small local farms promote biodiversity by planting a wide range of produce, are more likely to operate using organic practices, and add immeasurably to the fabric of their communities by their civic commitments, interactions with restaurant chefs and presence at farmers markets. By their artisanal approach to agriculture, the freshness of their product and the variety of their offerings, these farmers insure the highest quality food. Without these farmers, great local cuisine is unreachable. We welcome your tax-deductible contribution . . . ."

[MatthewB]

See above, all the seasonal, local, artisanal, environmentally sound, sustainable, blah blah blah . . . proclamations from Chefs Collaborative plus his Frontera Farmer Foundation to which you're encouraged to make your tax-deductible donation in order to realize Bayless's vision of "a year-round interchange between sustainable farmers and chefs or market patrons, in which the seasonal products of local agriculture provide the foundation for regional cuisine and the assurance of a sustainable future." Not to mention, "Rick and Deann Bayless, founders of Frontera Grill and Topolobampo, along with the restaurants’ staff, created the Foundation out of their concern for struggling farmers and the importance of local produce to the vitality of Chicago’s culinary culture. Small local farms promote biodiversity by planting a wide range of produce, are more likely to operate using organic practices, and add immeasurably to the fabric of their communities by their civic commitments, interactions with restaurant chefs and presence at farmers markets. By their artisanal approach to agriculture, the freshness of their product and the variety of their offerings, these farmers insure the highest quality food. Without these farmers, great local cuisine is unreachable. We welcome your tax-deductible contribution . . . ."

And the above statements equal the below in what way?

But if one's objection to Burger King is "this is an evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core corporation that is part of a larger evil, morally repugnant, rotten-to-the-core segment of the market, and I'm fundamentally opposed to the entire concept of a business like this continuing to exist for one more second," . . .

[Fat Guy]

Visiting his website, you see how commercial he is, hes got advertisements, tons of pics of himself (cus its about the FOOD,) hes got a whole line of tortilla chips, salsa,  Margarita Mix, GIFT SETS (!!) that you can PURCHASE!

There's nothing wrong with behaving in a commercially viable manner, nor is there anything wrong with wanting to be rich. But Bayless looks bad even to a died-in-the-wool free-market-loving capitalist like me. Because to me his Web site isn't objectionable on account of being commercial; it's objectionable on account of being tacky, ugly, and beneath the dignity of a significant chef. Which is all quite aside from the hypocrisy.

[Fat Guy]

And the above statements equal the below in what way?

It seems painfully obvious that both are examples of moral proclamations that are on their own terms 100% ethically incompatible with a Burger King endorsement, and that anybody who says either and then turns around and endorses Burger King is a screaming hypocrite not to mention a shameless lying pimp.

[MatthewB]

And the above statements equal the below in what way?

It seems painfully obvious that both are examples of moral proclamations that are on their own terms 100% ethically incompatible with a Burger King endorsement, and that anybody who says either and then turns around and endorses Burger King is a screaming hypocrite not to mention a shameless lying pimp.

It may seem painfully obvious to some. But it tells me more about the person making the judgment than it tells me about Rick Bayless.

[Jinmyo]

That they value their own integrity and value that of others?

[Fat Guy]

Then perhaps, Matthew, you will enlighten us as to how the Chefs Collaborative and Frontera Farmer Foundation missions and proclamations are ethically compatible with a Burger King endorsement. Is it because putting a chicken sandwich on the menu is "a step in the right direction"? That argument has, I think, been dispensed with already. Is it because Burger King, unbeknownst to us, is actually an enlightened and vigorous proponent of local, seasonal, artisanal, sustainable, environmentally sound ingredients and agriculture? Or is it for some reason that has thus far eluded us?

[Jinmyo]

Perhaps Bayless is a monarchist?

[MatthewB]

That they value their own integrity and value that of others?

When I hear all-encompassing labels like hypocrite & pimp applied to a human being, I don't feel much of an integrity & values vibe.

[Jinmyo]

As stated earlier, were I in Bayless' clogs and did what he did, I would be a shameless lying pimp.

And, as stated, he might not be. He might have perfectly coherent reasons I and we are not privy to.

My latest hypothesis is, as stated, he is a monarchist and a request from royalty cannot be denied.

[MatthewB]

As stated earlier, were I in Bayless' clogs and did what he did, I would be a shameless lying pimp.

And that's my point that one's judgments about others tells me much more about the judge than the one being judged.

[Jinmyo]

Right.

And it's because I value Bayless' integrity (though he may or may not) that I have referred to him as a shameless lying pimp.

I say it with love. And the hope he changes his mind.

And, while we're at it, hires a better web designer.

[tanabutler]

Did Wolfgang Puck actually develop the recipes for the canned soups that bear his name? Could anyone tell me if the ingredients stated on the can are the same kind of ingredients you'd expect him to be using at his restaurant. Where in the heirarchy of great chefs in America would anyone put Rick Bayless before this endoresment?

That he didn't design the sandwich has very little bearing on my opinion of why he's a sell-out. Well, it's much less damning than the idea that he endorsed a Burger King product, period.

Come to think of it, if he thinks Burger King food is good, why should I trust him with what he'd make at his own joints? (I might have to go taste one of these sodium sandwiches now. Just to see.)

When I hear all-encompassing labels like hypocrite & pimp applied to a human being, I don't feel much of an integrity & values vibe.

It's the level of hypocrisy that's galling here: you can't be a national leader (world leader) in something like local/sustainable/organic food and do Burger King promotions. I'm jealous of the money but I think he should resign from the Chef's Collaborative. And get a better web designer (that Frontera Kitchens site has, "How shall one say, Court Composer? Too many notes.").

Crest is good toothpaste.

Edited September 21, 2003 by tanabutler (log)

[Jinmyo]

So few would quote Salieri in a positive way. tanabutler

(Or at least Amadeus' version of him.)

[Bux]

I don't feel in the least sanctimonious in saying that Bayless is a hypocrite and a sell-out for endorsing a Burger King sandwich that he didn't even develop, given his affiliation with Chefs Collaborative and the values he espouses with that affiliation.

Okay

Did Wolfgang Puck actually develop the recipes for the canned soups that bear his name? Could anyone tell me if the ingredients stated on the can are the same kind of ingredients you'd expect him to be using at his restaurant. Where in the hierarchy of great chefs in America would anyone put Rick Bayless before this endorsement?

That he didn't design the sandwich has very little bearing on my opinion of why he's a sell-out. Well, it's much less damning than the idea that he endorsed a Burger King product, period.

Come to think of it, if he thinks Burger King food is good, why should I trust him with what he'd make at his own joints? (I might have to go taste one of these sodium sandwiches now. Just to see.)

Excuse my confusion regarding the design and development of the sandwich in question and excuse my overriding concern that, in spite the fact that I won't go near a Burger King, it's within the realm of possibility that the sandwich is actually edible and maybe even tasty. I gather than Bayless is not endorsing the whole line of BK products. So far it seems he's just endorsing this one product with the mention that it's a new direction for the company. It seems as if it's clear to me that he's implying he could never have endorsed what BK offered in the past and that includes the rest of the curent BK line of product.

Maybe it's that I don't place Bayless in the firmament of chef gods and that BK is so much not a part of my life, that I'm so much less offended than others are.

[Janedujour]

I mentioned yesterday that I had just received the Oct/Nov issue of Mother Earth News (The origninal guide to living wisely)

This issue (I checked their website for a link but it's still featuring Aug.Sept. issue) contains a 4.5 page article titled From Farms to Five Stars by Doreen G. Howard, a writer who speciaizes in stories about food and sustainable gardening. The main focus of the article is Rick Bayless and the Chefs Collaborative.

As I suspected, there's no mention of the BK deal, which I imagine would have pissed off the editors big time!

Bayless' dreams and ideas about breaking the boundaries between the folks growing the food and the folks preparing it are so impressive. The collaborative has made it possible for many farms to thrive through large donations for better equipment, grants, etc.

One example was a donation to one Wisc. farmer Bill Warner to build heated hoophouses so he could grow baby spinach all year round for Frontera (Bayless' restaurant) and "Frontera paid for half of the winter tomato order so we were able to build three more houses, making us sustainable" and "We were able to hire employees ad pay them a decent wage".

Quote by Bayless "We consider the farmers who grow for us our partners, and the health of their business is important to the health of ours."

He has also helped his managing chef Tracy Vowel realize her dream of becoming a full time farmer by gradually phasing her out of her full time position at the restaurant once she's ready.

So, what is this Burger King thing about? What in the hell was he thinking? It's as if I heard that the National Chair for the American Diabetes Foundation (is it still Mary Tyler Moore?) was doing Krispy Kreme ads!!

You'd think if he needed more money to "support" the farmers (if that's his reasoning?) he could have found another, more appropriate, sponser like say a grocey store chain that sells organics, or an environmentaly friendly car commercial or something!?

I can see the commercial now "New BK Santa Fe sandwich with "pastured, antibiotic, drug free, chicken, with guajillo chilis, roasted organic tomatoes, honeyed pasilla sauce, and wilted baby spinach" Only $25.00! Or make it a meal with fries and a 32 oz coke $29.99!

Oh shit, I'll just take the fries and coke. I forgot to go to the ATM!

Shame on you Mr. Bayless.

[ronnie_suburban]

*admittedly reaching here*

...sometimes a war is fought on more than one front.

=R=

[Bux]

*admittedly reaching here*

I think not. Soemtimes it's possible to have grand dreams and still function in the real world supporting small gains.

[tanabutler]

So few would quote Salieri in a positive way. tanabutler    

(Or at least Amadeus' version of him.)

I think I was quoting Jeffrey Jones as the Emperor. Unless I'm wrong.

[MatthewB]

Then perhaps, Matthew, you will enlighten us as to how the Chefs Collaborative and Frontera Farmer Foundation missions and proclamations are ethically compatible with a Burger King endorsement. Is it because putting a chicken sandwich on the menu is "a step in the right direction"? That argument has, I think, been dispensed with already. Is it because Burger King, unbeknownst to us, is actually an enlightened and vigorous proponent of local, seasonal, artisanal, sustainable, environmentally sound ingredients and agriculture? Or is it for some reason that has thus far eluded us?

FG, thanks but this bait isn't very appealing.

I'll pass.

[MatthewB]

Right.

And it's because I value Bayless' integrity (though he may or may not) that I have referred to him as a shameless lying pimp.

I say it with love. And the hope he changes his mind.

And, while we're at it, hires a better web designer.

Based on my limited experience, approaching someone with love whilst naming them as a shameless lying pimp and/or a hypocrite and/or a sellout and/or *add your label here,* well . . . I doubt it will lead to any positive change--for any party.

I'm not questioning your assessment of Bayless' particular action. Rather I'm a bit taken back by the style of engagement. But perhaps I don't understand the tactics.

[Jinmyo]

So few would quote Salieri in a positive way. tanabutler    

(Or at least Amadeus' version of him.)

I think I was quoting Jeffrey Jones as the Emperor. Unless I'm wrong.

Egads, you're right. Even dreamier.