Defining "Junk Food"

[=Mark]

Blue food is junk food

Blueberries?

Blueberries are purple.

[tommy]

Blue food is junk food

Blueberries?

Blueberries are purple.

blackberries?

the stuff in blue cheese?

[bloviatrix]

Fast food burgers, the ones that are thin as a dime, are junk food to me.  Good burgers, thick, made to order, juicy...aren't.

But I don't know why. 

So you're saying junk food is like pornography. You know it when you see/taste it.

[slkinsey]

if you eat only at md's, you will suffer from malnutrition.

That's a bold statement.

Which food group do you think is missing there?

fruit, for one thing. but there's the problem of white bread, of probably-unhealthy fats, and in general, lack of vitamins. and then i think it can be argued that the amount of greens is hardly sufficient.

not only will you be malnourished, you will probably get diabetes, too, as the only bread is white and the only thing to drink is soda pops. (oh, sure, you can drink tap water, but that can be a very nasty alternative in some places)

Okralet, as has been pointed out extensively on this board and in the scientific literature, white bread (especially enriched white bread) is actually more nutritious than whole grain bread -- which is to say, the body is able to absorb more nutrients from white bread than from whole grain bread.

As for the greens, I think an examination of the McDonald's menu amply demonstrates that there are plenty of greens available in the form of salads. And, of course, it is absolutely possible to avoid eating large amounts of "dangerous" fats if one chooses appropriate items from the menu.

As for diabetes from the white bread and the soda... The idea that eating white bread causes the onset of diabetes is preposterous and completely unsupported. Certainly, eating white bread can't possibly be worse in that regard than eating a lot of fresh ripe fruit, which comtains a lot more sugar and in simpler form. You're not suggesting that eating fresh ripe fruit contributes to the onset of diabetes, are you? As for the beverages, one could always choose to drink diet soda and/or orange juice and/or Hi-C orange drink.

The one place where McDonald's really falls short is in fresh fruit. That said, I am quite certain that the people who develop the menu and recipes for McDonald's have gone to great lengths to make sure it is possible to construct a daily meal plan from their offerings that satisfies all the USDA nutritional requirements. So I think we can definitively say that one would not be malnourished if eating all meals at McDonald's.

But, really... who cares? No one is suggesting that it's a good idea to take all one's meals at the same restaurant. I'm sure it would be equally difficult to construct a healthy diet exclusively from the menu at Jean Georges.

[hjshorter]

I remember reading (in McGee's On Food and Cooking, I believe) that some food organization was giving whole wheat bread food to malnourished children thinking that it was better for them than white bread. It wasn't. Whole wheat bread contains marginally more vitamins, minerals and protein, but the high fiber content dramatically lessens the calories and nutrients that the intestine absorbs. Of course if you don't get enough fiber in your diet, then whole wheat is a good choice. But if what you need is to absorb calories, white bread (especially if enriched) is the way to go. So to say that white bread is junk food and whole wheat bread is healthy is a very narrow view.

Thanks for the reference, Jaz, I will have read that book again. Many child nutrition reference books, including the popular What To Expect series, recommend way too much fiber for small children.

[KNorthrup]

Is fruit truly necessary for proper nutrition though? I realize it's in the USDA pyramid and all, but wouldn't substituting an equal quantity of veg be adequate? Is there an actual nutritional reason for separating the two?

[Fat Guy]

The one place where McDonald's really falls short is in fresh fruit.

Restaurants don't typically serve fresh fruit at all. It's not really part of their mandate, given that so little preparation is involved.

Is fresh fruit even necessary for a balanced diet? I think of the group as fruits-and-vegetables, with vegetables being far more preferable from a health standpoint especially if obesity is a concern.

[Katherine]

I remember reading (in McGee's On Food and Cooking, I believe) that some food organization was giving whole wheat bread food to malnourished children thinking that it was better for them than white bread. It wasn't. Whole wheat bread contains marginally more vitamins, minerals and protein, but the high fiber content dramatically lessens the calories and nutrients that the intestine absorbs. Of course if you don't get enough fiber in your diet, then whole wheat is a good choice. But if what you need is to absorb calories, white bread (especially if enriched) is the way to go. So to say that white bread is junk food and whole wheat bread is healthy is a very narrow view.

Thanks for the reference, Jaz, I will have read that book again. Many child nutrition reference books, including the popular What To Expect series, recommend way too much fiber for small children.

Whole grains are more nutritions, provided you get enough of them, as they are less digestible. For impoverished people, getting most of your calories from processed grains may mean malnutrition in the long run, as they are short on B vitamins. So a diet composed mostly of white rice can cause beriberi. It would be necessary to increase the quantity available if you were to substitute whole grains. This is what that agency should have done. They were providing insufficient rations to a captive audience, an improvement over starvation, but not much of one.

[slkinsey]

I remember reading (in McGee's On Food and Cooking, I believe) that some food organization was giving whole wheat bread food to malnourished children thinking that it was better for them than white bread. It wasn't. Whole wheat bread contains marginally more vitamins, minerals and protein, but the high fiber content dramatically lessens the calories and nutrients that the intestine absorbs. Of course if you don't get enough fiber in your diet, then whole wheat is a good choice. But if what you need is to absorb calories, white bread (especially if enriched) is the way to go. So to say that white bread is junk food and whole wheat bread is healthy is a very narrow view.

Thanks for the reference, Jaz, I will have read that book again. Many child nutrition reference books, including the popular What To Expect series, recommend way too much fiber for small children.

As I posted to this thread some time ago...

As promised, relevant excerpts from On Food and Cooking by Harold McGee, pp 282 = 284.

...the popular view today is that whole grain bread, because it comtains the vitamin-rich germ and fiber-rich bran, is more nutritius and better for our general health than refined flour breads.  This, in turn, is a relatively recent reaction against centuries, even millennia, of a rather unreflective preference for lighter breads.

...as for whole wheat in particular: it is true that whole grain flour contains more protein, minerals and vitamins than refined flour, including as it does the nutritionally valuable germ and aleurone layer, as well as the mostly indigestible bran.  But it is also true that most of these nutrients pass through the digestive tract unabsorbed because the indigestible carbohydrates complex with them and speed their passage out of the system.  The nutrients in white bread do not suffer such losses.

...the epidemic of rickets that struck the children of Dublin after three years of wartime rations of dairy products and whole wheat bread.  The combination of marginal supplies of calcium and vitamin D and the calcium-complexing activity of phytic acid, which is concentrated in the aleurone layer, was enough to tip the balance from health to serious disease.  Similar problems with iron and zinc have been studied among the poor in Egypt and Iran.

The irony is that following the Dublin outbreak and other efvidence that mineral and vitamin deficiencies can cause disease, the nutritional fortification of bread became manditory in several countries, including the United States: but only white bread is affected, because whole grain breads are considered a specialty product.

American consumers of brown bread are no longer the poor who cannot afford the price of refining, but rather a middle-class interested in pure "natural" products.

[=Mark]

I've often noted that fried pork rinds are often portrayed as the poster boy for junk food. Imagine my surprise when comparing labels a few years ago that they contain about half the fat and 10 times the protein as a comparable serving of potato chips. Hail fried pork rinds as the health food of the new millenium!

[JAZ]

Whole grains are more nutritions, provided you get enough of them, as they are less digestible.

I don't follow this. How can something that is not digestible be nutritious?

For impoverished people, getting most of your calories from processed grains may mean malnutrition in the long run, as they are short on B vitamins. So a diet composed mostly of white rice can cause beriberi.

White rice doesn't cause beriberi; a lack of vitamin B1 causes beriberi. That's like saying that brown rice causes scurvy because it doesn't contain enough vitamin C. Very few, if any, single foods can provide all the vitamins we need.

[hjshorter]

Whole grains are more nutritions, provided you get enough of them, as they are less digestible.

What I have read suggests that it's impossible for most children, given their small stomachs and small appetites, to consume enough whole grains for proper nutrition. Enriched bread with low fiber will not contribute to malnutrition.

Edited July 28, 2003 by hjshorter (log)