Tip Computation: How do you Determine the Tip?

[Pielle]

We tip at least 20%. When the kids got old enough to get stiffed a time or two on their wait jobs you start to understand the value of a nice tip. Also when we get comp-ed for something we either tip on the whole ticket anyway or give the price of the item comp-ed to the server.

The overriding irony however is that not only do servers make beaucoups more than degreed people in general they make more than the degreed chefs in the back of the house who are putting it out hot & heavy so they can get the good tips. And it takes years and years for the little chef-boys and chef-girls to move up the pay scale again grossly disproportionate to the agility with which a server can improve their incomes.

We have a little chef-boy in the family.

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I fail to completely understand your point. You say that you tip a lot, but then you add that a waiter 's earings seem disproportionate in comparaison with just about anything else. It seems to be most people's position anyways...

[K8memphis]

...I fail to completely understand your point.  You say that you tip a lot, but then you add that a waiter 's earings seem disproportionate in comparaison with just about anything else.  It seems to be most people's position anyways...

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Yeah, I'm not on a bandwagon to change anything about tipping. I wish the back of the house got tipped out but oh well whatever. I'm not afraid to agree with others' opinions. On many levels it hits close to home with us.

We tip good because when our daughter was in high school she had been stiffed before as a waitress. Shoot, when I had the tea-room I had these two women stiff me on the ticket. Very clever very mean they were. I want to call them names! Had a party of five stiff us on the tip. Oh the agony!!! We, my husband and I, don't really tip a lot though.

So that's my point about tipping. I tip pleasantly 'cause I want to. Good karma type of thing.

Another facet to tipping is the fact that the back of house makes exponentially less income for their exponentially greater investment in time and education.

I don't know what you don't see, I just repeated myself is all.

Edited December 5, 2006 by K8memphis (log)

[Dave Hatfield]

Glad that I now live in France where tipping in restaurants is no longer expected. It took a long time, but the French have succeeded in stamping out the practice pretty much.

You leave, maybe, the odd change.

Same in Germany, The Nederlands and all of Scandinavia.

England is still a tip. And the restaurants there are expensive.

Hate it when we come home & have to tip again.

My pet peeve is those places where they automatically add 15-25% tip to the bill of parties over 6 people. How dare they!

A rip off as far as I'm concerned.

[dividend]

I wish that restaurants would just add a 10-15% tip onto the bill payed directly to the waiter. That way, no one gets stiffed, and if the service is great, you can leave an additional amount. It just seems that alot of times the tipping system brings out the worst in people, at both extremes. I've dined a with total cheapskates who left no tip at all, forcing me to cover it out of guilt, and I've dined with former waiters who made a big deal out of tipping 40% and guilt tripping everyone who tipped less. I also don't like tipping because it feels like I'm spending extra money above the cost of the meal. Which is true, in a sense, but since tips subsidize restaurants paying waiters $2.13, the tip is part of the cost of the meal. So why isn't is just included? Paying the check sometimes feels like being part of a social experiment.

[alligande]

But remember, in America, waitresses and other tipped employees make less than the minimum wage, so their tip is actually most of their wage. It's a stupid system but it's the one we've got.

Where I live, the minimum wage is $5.15, but tipped employees are only required to be paid $2.13 an hour.

I try to keep this in mind when tipping, and usually tip 20-30% unless the service has been horrible, where I will go down to 10% in extreme cases.

I used to be in the industry, and I appreciate how hard the work is. Also, I'm fussy and make frequent special requests. I also go out to eat at very few places, and the waitstaff remembers me and my husband because we tip well, so we usually get superior service and sometimes get freebies as well.

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In CA, tipped employees make the same minimum wage that everyone else does.

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Just want to clarify this (although I agree it is a weird system) - the employer has to make up the diffrence between the minimum wage and the tip rate over the period of the shift if the server does not make any money. The employer also pays their share of social secruity local fed taxes etc on the whole amount

I tip 20% a live in a small town used to own a restauraunt and know a lot of people so if we want decent service again 20% it is. I have friends who tip 25 - 30% which I do think is absurd except in dinner type place where the prices are cheaper but the server still has to hustle then they get 30%

It is not included because that is even more annoying ever had really bad service and been forced to take of the service charge it is a pain.

A tip is not a right it is a reward for decent to good service - if you suck as a server then you wont make any money.

[fiftydollars]

Lately I have heard a lot of servers complain about people that calculate the tip before the tax. They argue that since they have to pay taxes on their tips the customer should tip based on the total after tax. Does everyone/anyone agree?

[tommy]

Lately I have heard a lot of servers complain about people that calculate the tip before the tax. They argue that since they have to pay taxes on their tips the customer should tip based on the total after tax. Does everyone/anyone agree?

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the two taxes (sales and income) are obviously unrelated. the argument is ridiculous. what they probably mean to say is "people should tip more because i don't make a lot of money", which isn't a very good argument, and not very compelling.

i choose to tip on the tax because the math is easier and i don't mind tipping the extra little bit (20% of 7% of the bill, here in NJ where sales tax is about 7%...which would turn out to be about $1.40 per hundred dollars worth of check based on 20% tipping, hardly worth the second thought).

[Sneakeater]

Lately I have heard a lot of servers complain about people that calculate the tip before the tax. They argue that since they have to pay taxes on their tips the customer should tip based on the total after tax. Does everyone/anyone agree?

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I disagree strongly.

[Dave Weinstein]

What I end up doing looks something like this:

Buffet: 10% of the total, minimum $1

General Tipping: 20% of the bill (including tax and drinks)

Special Cases: 25% of the bill (including tax and drinks)

Poor but not Spectacularly Poor Service: 15% of the bill (including tax and drinks)

By special cases, I mean service above and beyond (and for all intents and purposes, there is one restaurant we go to where we normally tip that, and otherwise, it's around 20%).

If the situation is poor enough for me to tip less than 15%, it was bad enough for me to talk to someone at the restaurant about it.

--Dave

[Pielle]

Seems like every one has a diffrent, and very personal opinion on tipping. I still think waiters should be paid like anyone else, with a wage. Good waiters in good restaurants obviously being paid more then others. Tips should only be a bonus like you give the guy a the gas station or the girl at tim horton.

I really fail to understand why someone's salary should be 80% dertermined by the amount of the client's bill. Expensive items do not require more work then a similar item more modestly price (i.e. chicken leg vs ribs or 40$ wine bottle vs 200$ wine bottle). It seems all too much random to me. Its a job like others, it should be paid by a descent wage tips should be a small "bonus on performance".

[Hest88]

I'm usually amazed at Canadian waiters who complain about poor tipping when they're getting at least minimum wage--unlike most American waiters. They benefit from both a "European" pay scale and American tipping expectations.

Anyway, I expect in our lifetimes 20% will be the new norm, just as 15% is now the norm. This also baffles me, but I think it's due to the same mindset we have about the speed limit. The speed limit in our minds translates as a speed *minimum* so when speed limits are raised it just means we psychologically then raise our expectations of a minimum speed.

[Pielle]

I'm usually amazed at Canadian waiters who complain about poor tipping when they're getting at least minimum wage--unlike most American waiters. They benefit from both a "European" pay scale and American tipping expectations.

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That's probably why us canadians are less tolerant to whining waiters

[achevres]

I have been wanting to ask this question, and here is the appropriate thread.

Two years ago I went to Sant Ambroeus in NYC (upper east) for lunch. It's a swanky Italian place. They have sit down service and also sandwiches and pastry for eating standing up, like in Italy, or for take out. We wanted just that (sandwiches and pastry) and were told that since it was after 12 noon, we could not order that for sit down, but could eat it at the bar standing up, which we did. The bill ended up at over $60.

My question is, what percent should I have tipped? I tipped 15%, but felt that was too much considering that I had to stand the whole time, and would have spent a similiar amount sitting down for lunch.

p.s. We returned last year for regular lunch and it was lovely.

[Busboy]

I have been wanting to ask this question, and here is the appropriate thread.

Two years ago I went to Sant Ambroeus in NYC (upper east) for lunch.  It's a swanky Italian place. They have sit down service and also sandwiches and pastry for eating standing up, like in Italy, or for take out.  We wanted just that (sandwiches and pastry) and were told that since it was after 12 noon, we could not order that for sit down, but could eat it at the bar standing up, which we did.  The bill ended up at over $60. 

My question is, what percent should I  have tipped? I tipped 15%, but felt that was too much considering that I had to stand the whole time, and would have spent a similiar amount sitting down for lunch.

p.s. We returned last year for regular lunch and it was lovely.

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Do you tip less if you stand at a bar than if you get a stool? IMHO, when you sign on for lunch, you sign on for a standard tip, too, regardless of posture.

[MGC]

I used to be in the industry, and I appreciate how hard the work is.... I also go out to eat at very few places, and the waitstaff remembers me and my husband because we tip well, so we usually get superior service and sometimes get freebies as well.

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I could have written that paragraph.

DH and I tend to tip 20%, especially at places which we frequent. I do believe it pays off, especially when the wait staff is the same each night. The server has to really screw up to get much less than 15%.

I also think that tipping gets a little out of hand, though -- I am especially irritated by tip cups on fast food counters. I place an order, they hand me the goods, I walk away -- shouldn't there be a tip cup at the auto parts store also?

[achevres]

I have been wanting to ask this question, and here is the appropriate thread.

Two years ago I went to Sant Ambroeus in NYC (upper east) for lunch.   It's a swanky Italian place. They have sit down service and also sandwiches and pastry for eating standing up, like in Italy, or for take out.  We wanted just that (sandwiches and pastry) and were told that since it was after 12 noon, we could not order that for sit down, but could eat it at the bar standing up, which we did.  The bill ended up at over $60. 

My question is, what percent should I  have tipped? I tipped 15%, but felt that was too much considering that I had to stand the whole time, and would have spent a similiar amount sitting down for lunch.

p.s. We returned last year for regular lunch and it was lovely.

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Do you tip less if you stand at a bar than if you get a stool? IMHO, when you sign on for lunch, you sign on for a standard tip, too, regardless of posture.

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Well, I'm not convinced, since I wanted to sit down and they had the space and it was about 45 minutes standing up (not relaxing). Can you imagine if at a regular bar they didn't let you sit down when stools were available? I would not have tipped if I had just taken the same things for take-out. They really want to be "Italian" with the stand up espresso bar and I am inclined to tip what I would in Italy for stand-up service -- much less than for sit down.

[Busboy]

I have been wanting to ask this question, and here is the appropriate thread.

Two years ago I went to Sant Ambroeus in NYC (upper east) for lunch.  It's a swanky Italian place. They have sit down service and also sandwiches and pastry for eating standing up, like in Italy, or for take out.  We wanted just that (sandwiches and pastry) and were told that since it was after 12 noon, we could not order that for sit down, but could eat it at the bar standing up, which we did.  The bill ended up at over $60. 

My question is, what percent should I  have tipped? I tipped 15%, but felt that was too much considering that I had to stand the whole time, and would have spent a similiar amount sitting down for lunch.

p.s. We returned last year for regular lunch and it was lovely.

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Do you tip less if you stand at a bar than if you get a stool? IMHO, when you sign on for lunch, you sign on for a standard tip, too, regardless of posture.

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Well, I'm not convinced, since I wanted to sit down and they had the space and it was about 45 minutes standing up (not relaxing). Can you imagine if at a regular bar they didn't let you sit down when stools were available? I would not have tipped if I had just taken the same things for take-out. They really want to be "Italian" with the stand up espresso bar and I am inclined to tip what I would in Italy for stand-up service -- much less than for sit down.

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When in Rome, do as the Romans do. In New York, they have other customs.

[slkinsey]

Well, I live in NYC and I'm not sure I'd be inclined to tip 20% to stand at a bar and eat a panino.

Other tipping threads include:

Tipping

Tipping with Cash or Credit?

Is Tipping Big the New Black?

[martha]

Forgive me if this is a slight deviation, but has anyone had this experience recently?

I was at a Houston's restaurant in Orange County for lunch with 4 other people from work, our boss was hosting. We had a normal meal, appetizer split, 5 entrees, 3 deserts. service was quite good. when the bill came, an 18% tip had been handwritten in. Not added officially, as many places do when you have more than a certain number of people (usually 8, not 5) and not suggested, as in those annoying calculations some restaurants print at the bottom, but handwritten, as if the server had done it himself.

Our host was so surprised he asked us if we'd ever seen such a thing and none of us had. He said he had intended to tip more but now wondered if he should tip less in protest. I'm inclined to beleive him, he's a fairly generous guy. He stuck with the 18.

I wish we had asked about the practice, but we were eager to get on with our day, and it wasn't a situation where one would invite conflict.

Please tell me self-tipping isn't a "new black".

[Porthos]

I don't do much fine dining, more coffee shops (Denny's, Carrow's, etc) here in southern California. My eldest sister was a waitress for 20+ years so I do have some inkling of the server's side of things.

For fine dining when I do go out: unless the service was needlessly poor I tip 20% of the total including tax. If it's not busy and you just can't be bothered to come by the table and make sure that I have what I need, I can't be bothered giving you what I would gladly have given you if you had actually SERVED me instead of being little more than a sign-board at a drive thru. I am careful not to confuse a busy or short-staffed dining room with simple sloth.

However, most of my dining is lower-end and I still apply the 15% mark as a starting point. If I get average service, they get 15%. If I get needlessly poor service they get 10-12% and I don't generally return to that place for a while (there is too much competition for my dollar to not hope for better elsewhere). If you treat me like you value my partonage I'm right back up to 20% and will want to come back. I don't need you falling all over me, but don't make flagging you down a 15 minute exercize in being ignored.

I would vastly prefer the German (European) system of paying the wait staff decently and have the cost of their labor be in included in the price of the bill instead of having to figure out how much to tip. When we were in Germany in 1980 the custom was to simply round the bill up the next mark. No annoying change to deal with; the waiter simply has to handle a few bills.

To repeat what has already been stated: Wait staff in California make at least the prevailing minimum wage and that figures into my tipping habits.

Porthos Potwatcher

The Unrelenting Carnivore

Edited January 5, 2007 by Porthos (log)

[edawerd]

I always seem to have this conversation with friends at the end of a meal at a restaurant. Is 18% excessive? Only in America (I believe) is the expected tip so high. I recently got back from Japan, where I left a 15% tip at a restaurant there. The waiter *chased* me down the street to return my tip to me. I told him that I left the money there on purpose as a tip. He was so grateful!

Waiters in America, on the other hand, would scoff at a tip less than 15%. I can't help but to think that waiters in America are a bit, how do you say, spoiled when it comes to tipping.

What do you guys think?

[Pan]

I'll bet waiters in Japan get a higher salary and more benefits. Plus, they don't have the same kind of ridiculous medical expenses we have here. For the record, I tend to tip something over 20%.

[Felice]

Is 18% excessive?  Only in America (I believe) is the expected tip so high.

This is because waiters in the US work for mostly for tips and the salary is minimal. When I worked as a waitress in the United States I was paid 2.01$ per hour (this was in Philadelphia) and a small percentage was taken out for meals. Rather than getting a check at the end of the week I often owed the restaurant money due to taxes. I have to say that if I gave excellent service and was tipped less than 15% I would probably be a bit disappointed as well.

I have also worked in Paris in a restaurant for two years where I was paid a little more than 7€ per hour (the legal minimum wage) and was given 5 weeks vacation, health insurance and retirement benefits, something waiters in the US rarely get. We still depended on tips because 7€ an hour doesn't go very far, but as long as someone left a few Euros, I was very happy. But all in all I really prefer the US system.

[Simon_S]

But all in all I really prefer the US system.

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I'm somewhat surprised to hear this. May I ask why? Is it that you can ultimately earn more under the US system, or that for you, cash outweighs benefits such as health insurance/paid vacation/whatever? Genuinely interested...

Si

[prasantrin]

I prefer the Japanese system, where waitstaff get paid minimum or slightly more, do their jobs well, and don't even ask for or expect tips. I tip when I'm in Canada and the US, but I don't believe I should have to.

I'm actually quite surprised edawerd's waiter kept that tip. Most Japanese would feel slightly insulted at even being left tips, but perhaps the younger generation, with increased travel abroad, are more willing to accept them.

And just out of curiousity, edawerd, what possessed you to leave a tip in a country like Japan, where it is well known that tipping is just not done?

Edited June 7, 2007 by prasantrin (log)