Chinese Mexican Food

[genebob]

when i lived in the Los Angeles basin (10 years ago) there was a restaurant on the pier named "Pancho & Wong's" which was the fusion of Chinese and Mexican food. I distinctly remember ordering Moo Shoo Taco and Szechuan Burrito. Sadly, it burned during one of those pier fires, and didn't return.

In between hitting on the hostess, I learned that all the cooks were Mexican, so I should expect the taste to tilt in that direction.

Now that I'm in Dallas, I'm seeing several (5+) Indian-Chinese restaurants, providing a different kind of fusion. These include Masala Wok; Bombay Chinese (I guess they figured that Dallasites wouldn't ack Mumbai Chinese) and others, many of which are located near the University of Texas - Dallas campus which has a high percentage of Indian students.

The traditional Indian restaurants appear to be taking a hit, as they are less and less popular with the Indian clientele. It's also possible that people are -finally- getting tired of the standard Indian buffet, every one of which includes 5 Indian dishes (tandoori chicken, basmati rice, palak paneer, etc.). One Indian restaurant that has a new image, and appears to be doing well, is Clay Pit which started in Austin and has migrated to Addison (a Dallas suburb which has more than it's fair share of restaurants).

Edited July 10, 2003 by genebob (log)

[sandra]

Chinese cooks and chefs manage to produce very credible versions of all kinds of cooking, but has a non-Chinese ever operated a successful Chinese restaurant?

I once had a meal in Houston (maybe Dallas?) in a big mall with a skating rink in it and a big hotel attached to it - chinese food so good I asked where they got the cooks...the answer... Mexico...

[linecook4life]

This is a very interesting topic which definately has roots in socio-economic situations. I have worked in numerous asian restaurants where people of latin-american descent have been employed. Besides having a reputation for being dependable workers, latin-americans also supply a demand for inexpensive labor that start-up, mom-and-pop restaurants often need.

Hence, the blending of latin-american and asian cultures here in the US was a marriage need and convenience. Subsequently, the intermingling of food ideas (we are in a restaurant, right?) was bound to happen. Obviously, there are certain "fusion" foods that work and some that don't. Some of my favorites from restaurants where i have worked (and these were not served on the menu- they were eaten by employees only)- mexican fried rice w/ chorizo, chicken and potato curry burritos (almost like a samosa), and a strange beef-tom-yum type stew eaten with tortillas.

One last note- if anyone has ever been to a sushi joint where latin-americans work- did you notice a "mexican roll" on the menu?

[sandra]

linecook4life,

It's more than just in the US - there is a long history of Chino-Latino restaurants all over Latin America, in Panama, for example, there has been for quite some time, a large Chinese population - result: great Chinese food in Panama, with some Latino thrown in...

Apart from some very specific ingredients, the cuisines can sometimes be very similar, i.e heavy on rice and bony meats, Maggi in everything, etc...

Now the Mexican/Chinese connection... I still don't have an answer for that one!

[tighe]

I used to do consulting work the for the Air Force and travelled to San Antonio regulary. One of the Air Force guys' favorite cheap lunch spots was a Chinese & Mexican restaurant in the southeast part of town. Two full menus and mixed combo plates. I recall having a spring rolls and a tostada one time. Food was good, especially for the price.

Here in Seattle there is an Italian restaurant called Perche Non? that is owned by a Chinese family. I believe the name is a reference to the cultural incongruity. Never been to the place myself.

[alacarte]

Is MSG included in the Chinese version of Mexican food?

[sandra]

Is MSG included in the Chinese version of Mexican food?

Probably, msg is used widely in Latin America and Mexico - you will find a little jar of Ajinomoto or Adolphs in most households - I use it regularly in sauces and many dishes...

[pnapoli]

a little place on Telegraph Ave, named "Robbie's Chinese Hofbrau"

oh dude, what an awesome name. there was a little burrito cart at telegraph where it hit the campus. kim's i think it was called. your burrito was served to you open at the top like a snow cone with a fork sticking out of it. by some strange coincidence, right next to this cart was another cart that served damn good steamed pork buns.

[funkapus]

Perche' No in Seattle is run by Mr. Wong and his Thai wife. Really great people, and the food is quite good, on the high-end side. Plenty of good authentic Italian, but then they also do some unusual dishes--I've had ostrich in chocolate sauce (sort of like an Italian mole), which was good, and king cobra risotto, which was unbelievable, flaky meat like salmon, only without any fishy flavor. Note that those were both specials, so you couldn't just drop in and get them.

They do a chocolate lasagna dessert (chocolate wafery 'noodles' layered with whipped sweetened mascarpone, raspberry sauce and chocolate sauce) that about blows my head off. It's lighter than you would expect.

The owners are wonderful. Mr. Wong might as well be Italian--he speaks with his hands, is exuberant and outgoing and speaks Italian. I was there once and there was a table of very elderly folks in varying stages of decrepitude, one older lady, another older lady with an oxygen tank, and an older gentleman who looked as though he could barely lift his fork to eat. The gentleman ordered the rabbit, and Mr. Wong brought it out to him personally, clapped him on the back and said something along the lines of, "After you eat-a this, you-a gonna go all night like you were 18!" I just about fell out of my chair.

His wife is incredibly nice and though I only eat there a couple of times a year, she says hi to me on the street when I pass by.

[monkeymay]

Here in L.A. we have Oki-Dog, which is about as fucked up Chinese/Mexican/Jewish/fusion as you can get.

An Oki dog is a hot dog wrapped in a tortilla which also contains chili, pickles, onions, mustard, American cheese and a big slice of fried pastrami thrown in for good measure. You can get a Mexican torta with teriyaki steak, lettuce and mayo. There's also the pastrami burrito which has got everthing but the kitchen sink - cabbage, onions, pickles, peppers and of course, chili. An Oki dog is street food at it's most twisted and usually only appealing in a late nite, sober your drunk ass up, gut bursting kind of way. But they're actually kind of good, or at least I sort of remember them being that way...

[jhlurie]

Here in L.A. we have Oki-Dog, which is about as fucked up Chinese/Mexican/Jewish/fusion as you can get.

An Oki dog is a hot dog wrapped in a tortilla which also contains chili, pickles, onions, mustard, American cheese and a big slice of fried pastrami thrown in for good measure. You can get a Mexican torta with teriyaki steak, lettuce and mayo. There's also the pastrami burrito which has got everthing but the kitchen sink - cabbage, onions, pickles, peppers and of course, chili. An Oki dog is street food at it's most twisted and usually only appealing in a late nite, sober your drunk ass up, gut bursting kind of way. But they're actually kind of good, or at least I sort of remember them being that way...

Note to self: Must investigate franchise possibilities...

[monkeymay]

Here in Seattle there is an Italian restaurant called Perche Non? that is owned by a Chinese family.  I believe the name is a reference to the cultural incongruity.  Never been to the place myself.

I ate at a Chinese restaurant in Palermo called 'La Grande Cina'. Very funny seeing 'zuppa di wonton' , and 'spaghetti al curry' along with a number of assorted risotto dishes (risotto alla cantonese). Place wasn't very good - I remember ordering a verdura mista fritta and getting an enormous plate of fried parsley! The decor was the best part - over the top half baked Chinese with a baroque Sicilian sensibilty. Along with a large group of Australians I think my friend and I were the only ones there. We'd been in Sicily for about a month and thought we'd try eating something other than Italian. It was the only place we found and the last time we tried it.

[jschyun]

Hmm, the whole Chinese-Mexican connection is interesting because I thought it was unusual. Apparently not.

One of my very favorite places to eat in Irvine, CA (1 hour south of L.A.) is Tenko Teriyako house. Chinese people are the managers and waiters, and Mexican guys are the sushi chefs and cooks. The waiters don't even bother to keep up a facade and greet you in Japanese. They greet you with "How many people?".

The food is excellent, prices are low, and the place is usually packed. The sashimi is on par with the Japanese run sushi joints, although sometimes they cut it a little thick. I love their yellowtail. I always get the sashimi platter (3 slices of tuna, salmon, yellowtail, 2 slices albacore, whitefish, octopus, surf clam) is $10.99. Plus you get rice refills for free and soda refills for free. I don't usually get sushi, so I can' comment on that, but the dragon rolls are huge and beautiful.

Also, the Todai sushi buffet chain is run by Korean people. I'm Korean, but I don't go there.

In L.A. there's that Korean/Brazilian(?) restaurant called temple. My cousin went on a date with the owner. It's a very hip young place and the food is purportedly very good.

In Oakland, I believe I've seen a Chinese deli.

[Jason Perlow]

It does sound better than the Chinese food prepared by Chinese that I have tried in a couple of upscale places in Mexico City. It wasn't horrible. Just weird. And definitely an improvement over the Cuban Chinese food places that at one time infested the Upper West Side. They were horrible.

You sir (and Mr Stone as well), are on crack. You clearly don't appreciate La Caridad for what it is.

Rachel and I ate at La Caridad at 78th street last night for the first time, after dropping elyse off. This has to be one of the ultimate best places to eat well-prepared retro-style Chinese food (read as 1960's) in all of NYC. I am so glad we decided to go in.

Their egg rolls are way above average specimens as they contain cuban-stlye roast pork as well as shrimp -- these are the closest you are probably gonna get to the egg rolls that you ate with your parents and grandparents at old brooklyn and queens chinese places. We took FOUR of these home. House Special Fried rice (Arroz Frito de la Casa) was very good -- brown-colored fried with lots of soy sauce, with pulled apart roast chicken, cuban roast pork, ham and shrimp thrown in with a little bit of sauteed lettuce. Shrimp Egg Foo Young was a total throwback, with cornstarch-thickened deep brown soy gravy. Perfection.

The Garbanzo bean and chorizo saute in tomato sauce appetizer came out 3rd degree burning hot (tempature wise), also very tasty although we brought most of it home.

About the only thing we didnt like was their orange-yolk colored egg drop soup.

I'm really looking forward to trying their spare ribs next time.

Seriously guys, this place is great. Where else can you speak in Spanish to a Chinese waiter named William and also practice your Cantonese? Its also open to 10:30 at night, which is a huge plus.

[marezion]

I don't this phenomenon is in any way an outcrop of the Chino-Latino phenomenon, which is at least partly derived from the Cuban Chinese emigration of the sixties and seventies into NY, NJ and Miami.

Actually I think it is rather an amalgam of the success of Chinese Takeout joints and the enterprising spirits of their prospering owners. Since this kind of takeout TexishMex is pretty cheap, I can see where they'd just go ahead and give it a shot, rather than, for example, hiring the ubiquitous Central American chefs with whom the management might not be able to communicate.

A note about these establishments:

It's Mexican food in the sense that, say, high school cafeteria food is food. It might approximate the ingredients, and it might not even be bad in its own interesting way, but it's definitely not what it's masquerading as. No marinade, NOTHING IS EVER BROWNED. No sauce. Cold tortillas. Forget the guacamole completely, and they just don't understand about melted cheeses.

[monkeymay]

You sir (and Mr Stone as well), are on crack. You clearly don't appreciate La Caridad for what it is.

Rachel and I ate at La Caridad at 78th street last night for the first time, after dropping elyse off. This has to be one of the ultimate best places to eat well-prepared retro-style Chinese food (read as 1960's) in all of NYC.  I am so glad we decided to go in.

I'm so glad you decided to got there too. I always try to have one meal at La Caridad when I'm in NYC.

My favorite - Chinese bitter greens soup with dumplings and a plate of Cuban roast pork with plantains.

A strong cup of cafe con leche to finish it off.

Multiculturalism at it's finest.

[herbacidal]

Here in L.A. we have Oki-Dog, which is about as fucked up Chinese/Mexican/Jewish/fusion as you can get.

An Oki dog is a hot dog wrapped in a tortilla which also contains chili, pickles, onions, mustard, American cheese and a big slice of fried pastrami thrown in for good measure. You can get a Mexican torta with teriyaki steak, lettuce and mayo. There's also the pastrami burrito which has got everthing but the kitchen sink - cabbage, onions, pickles, peppers and of course, chili. An Oki dog is street food at it's most twisted and usually only appealing in a late nite, sober your drunk ass up, gut bursting kind of way. But they're actually kind of good, or at least I sort of remember them being that way...

Note to self: Must investigate franchise possibilities...

need a partner?

[tryska]

how very intriguing.

i'm well aware of chinese restaurants in latin neighborhoods...i thought that was rather surreal. especially when the owner started speaking spanish with a chinese accent....but the food doesn't sound half-bad.

i think.

are the flavors mexican? or kinda chinese?

Edited September 22, 2003 by tryska (log)

[Jason Perlow]

I don't this phenomenon is in any way an outcrop of the Chino-Latino phenomenon, which is at least partly derived from the Cuban Chinese emigration of the sixties and seventies into NY, NJ and Miami.

Actually I think it is rather an amalgam of the success of Chinese Takeout joints and the enterprising spirits of their prospering owners. Since this kind of takeout TexishMex is pretty cheap, I can see where they'd just go ahead and give it a shot, rather than, for example, hiring the ubiquitous Central American chefs with whom the management might not be able to communicate.

A note about these establishments:

It's Mexican food in the sense that, say, high school cafeteria food is food. It might approximate the ingredients, and it might not even be bad in its own interesting way, but it's definitely not what it's masquerading as. No marinade, NOTHING IS EVER BROWNED. No sauce. Cold tortillas. Forget the guacamole completely, and they just don't understand about melted cheeses.

That may be true of the Mexican joints on this thread, but La Caridad is the real deal though. All the staff are ethnic chinese from cuba. The cuban food they have is legitimately cuban and the chinese food is.. well.. legitimlately 1960's era Chinese American. I spoke to my chinese waiter, William, in Spanish, and he explained the whole chinese migration to cuba thing to me.

[fifi]

That may be true of the Mexican joints on this thread, but La Caridad is the real deal though. All the staff are ethnic chinese from cuba. The cuban food they have is legitimately cuban and the chinese food is.. well.. legitimlately 1960's era Chinese American. I spoke to my chinese waiter, William, in Spanish, and he explained the whole chinese migration to cuba thing to me.

I find this whole thing so damned fascinating that the next time I get to New York, this restaurant is at the top of my list. How could I have missed the whole Chinese migration to Cuba thing? When did this happen?

[herbacidal]

here's a interesting page on the subject.

chinese in cuba

http://www.chinesejamaican.com is a site for chinese in jamaica.

[Jason Perlow]

BTW here is a link to La Caridad's Menu

Here are two other cuban chinese places, which I have not been to:

Bak Wong Kitchen

941-7751

381 Broadway

La Dinastia

212-362-3801

145 W 72nd St

anyone been to either?

[fifi]

here's a interesting page on the subject.

chinese in cuba

http://www.chinesejamaican.com  is a site for chinese in jamaica.

Thanks for the links. I love that kind of information. I have several Chinese friends and I wonder if they know about this particular migration.

[Pan]

BTW here is a link to La Caridad's Menu

Here are two other cuban chinese places, which I have not been to:

Bak Wong Kitchen

941-7751

381 Broadway

La Dinastia

212-362-3801

145 W 72nd St

anyone been to either?

No, but I used to go to La Tacita De Oro, another Cuban-Chinese place, on Broadway between 99th and 100th Sts. However, though it's quite acceptable, I like the local Dominican restaurant - El Malecon - better.

[marezion]

I don't this phenomenon is in any way an outcrop of the Chino-Latino phenomenon, which is at least partly derived from the Cuban Chinese emigration of the sixties and seventies into NY, NJ and Miami.

Actually I think it is rather an amalgam of the success of Chinese Takeout joints and the enterprising spirits of their prospering owners. Since this kind of takeout TexishMex is pretty cheap, I can see where they'd just go ahead and give it a shot, rather than, for example, hiring the ubiquitous Central American chefs with whom the management might not be able to communicate.

A note about these establishments:

It's Mexican food in the sense that, say, high school cafeteria food is food. It might approximate the ingredients, and it might not even be bad in its own interesting way, but it's definitely not what it's masquerading as. No marinade, NOTHING IS EVER BROWNED. No sauce. Cold tortillas. Forget the guacamole completely, and they just don't understand about melted cheeses.

That may be true of the Mexican joints on this thread, but La Caridad is the real deal though. All the staff are ethnic chinese from cuba. The cuban food they have is legitimately cuban and the chinese food is.. well.. legitimlately 1960's era Chinese American. I spoke to my chinese waiter, William, in Spanish, and he explained the whole chinese migration to cuba thing to me.

Gotcha Jason : )

I don't dispute that- in fact, as a nice Cuban girl, I have a couple of Chino-Latino relatives on my mother's side. What I'm getting at with my comment is specific to the Chinese-Mexican takeout places, rather than ChinoLatino, which is it's very own kind of cuisine. The point I was trying to introduce was the character of the food itself- how the Chinese cooks produce a very different version of the Mecixan fast-food favorites that we're used to.