5 meals in San Francisco...

[KatieLoeb]

Perfect food, one dish after the other, and a great meal for around 65 bucks a person. (I think. Katie, Sound right?)

It's approximately what we spent, although my dining companion that evening was laid up with a bad head cold so he didn't do his usual share of damage with the liquor portion of the bill.

On that note, however, they did bring him a pot of the truly fantastic tea that you mentioned, and he felt infinitely better after dinner than he had beforehand. The waiter was very kind in recommending the tea and explaning about it's medicinal properties. It really did the trick!

[bilrus]

Best Dim Sum- Yank Sing (at Rincon Center is open during the week and on Saturdays not sure about Sundays),

I second or fifth or sixth this. I have been there on a Sunday morning - in the midst of a 250,000 person anti war protest in February.

My wife and I spent in the neighborhhod of $80 on the meal. When we tell people that they are amazed that you can spend that much on dim sum. All I can say is that we must have been hungry and it was all very good.

[RodJSM]

Thanks much for these recommendations! My wife and I just spent our first anniversary in SF this last weekend.

Let me tell you, when you have such unanimous approval for ANY type of restaurant, the way there was in this thread for Yank Sing, GO. THERE. It was truly a great experience with extra great food. Despite a higher than average exposure to Asian food I've never experienced Dim Sum. Now I'm afraid that I'll be disappointed by any other Dim Sum restaurant I try. It wasn't hard to spend over $80 either. We came in at $99, I believe. We tended toward the more exotic seafood type items rather than the doughy pork-bun type items which I'm sure skewed the cost upward a bit. That was with no drinks other than the pot of tea, either. This was Sunday afternoon.

Saturday we were in China Town and wanting Dim Sum so we tried Four Seasons as recommended by wannabake. They only serve Dim Sum for lunch and we were there at dinner time but we had a great seafood meal (the whole meal type, with the menu items already chosen) that included our first crack at both jelly fish (appetizer) and shark fin soup. It also included honey walnut shrimp and a scallop dish.

Not the experience Yank Sing was but still a delightfully enjoyable meal. Thanks again for the guidance!

[trillium]

Next time try Ton Kiang out on Geary. On a good day, they beat Yank Sing in the seafood dim sum dept, but Yank Sing gets points for consistency.

regards,

trillium

[nutcakes]

1) a real California burrito place (in the Mission, preferably),

I rarely get a burrito anywhere else except La Taqueria (misnamed as El Taqueria here) on Mission near the corner of 25th. This is the highest quality carne asada and a crucial difference is that they do not include rice in the burrito, just beans and meat and any extras you want. They also have excellent lean carnitas. I HATE rice in my burrito. I also like Taqueria Cancun on Valencia near 16th but they started putting rice in the burrito about 18 years ago, so I have to ask for it to be left out. Meat not as tender as La Taqueria. What these 2 places lack is great kicking salsa, which Taqueria Cancun (2 locations) has. The original on Mission near 15th (I think) is in crack-head row, though. I had a burrito recently at El Toro and disliked it intensely.

Must mention that there are 2 places to get great tacos al pastor - Tacqueria San Jose on Mission at 16th and a taco truck on 16th near South Van Ness. Must also mention interesting Mexican food at Chava's across from San Jose. Famous for soups and I love the machaca for breakfast (eggs with shredded beef, tortillas on the side.)

2) a fantastic and interesting dinner place (nothing stuffy or traditional French please) in the $100/per person range,

sorry, not had high end since the last round of musical chefs--I would hands down go to Masa's given the opportunity (been to Danko very good).

3) a good Italian joint

We don't have Italian "joints", really. Most older places are family-style (La Felce, The Gold Spike) or Ligurian seafood stew. Rose Pistola is doing Ligurian/Cal, but higher end and fancy.

I do like Osteria (L'Osteria) del Forno on Columbus for a casual storefront place with good intentions. It is tiny and does not take reservations. Everything is made in the oven. I love the Shakerato coctail--campari shaken hard with orange peel and ice. It is fun to get an assortment of items to share, do check the specials. They have roast pork braised in milk--can be heavenly but also fatty once in a while. I have had two interesting meals at Da Flora on Columbus just past the park, other side of the street, same street as the church. It is charming, quirky and romantic, but has a menu that is a little hard to order from. Someone in the kitchen makes everything from scratch and really puts in a lot of care, I think the whole place is run by 2 people. Delfina get raves. I had one great meal and 2 so-so's there. Very crowded and hard to get in. They have a truly perfect salad: shredded lettuce with proscuitto and chopped walnuts, I don't know how they make it so perfectly.

4) the best place for Dim Sum.

Yang Sing is the tried and true SF Classic classy operation and the Rincon Annex location (Stewart Street at Mission near the water) is open on weekends. I have been eating here for years and years, it is owned by a local family. Yes it is expensive; white table cloths, great service. Eat slowly and wait for everything to come around including the peking duck served in individual pieces and the minced squab in lettuce cups. They often carry small trays around with piping hot soft-shell crab, shrimp or stuffed tofu so get that if offered. Ask for what you don't see. I always get the custard tarts for dessert but recently tasted the good mango pudding, and the chewy sesame covered things are good. Ton Kaiang is great, but it just ain't Yank Sing.

5) And if anyone knows a great bakery for breakfast and coffee, we wouldn't mind the suggestion.

Tartine (18th) is the new, new place and I am addicted to the ham and cheese crossiant--this is a must have. Or you can get the big slab of bread with the ham and cheese and bechamel, but it is twice as much. Service can be a problem. Also they make things in small batches throughout the day and are often out of the H&C crossiant. I had an excellent strab/rhub galette too. 18th and Guerrero.

Where are you staying? Perhaps there is something else near you to recommend.

I do recommend Tadich too, if you want to see old style SF. I used to get the petrale or sand dabs, but a waiter recommended the seafood saute and it is really a deal for $20 you get a big serving of scallops, shrimp and crab in a white wine butter sauce. No reservations, closes early, prepare to wait. California Street at Battery in Financial Dist.

I'm a fan of Citizen Cake for dinner with the new chef Jennifer Cox. Had an outstanding meal here. She does a fantastic tuna tartare with cucumber foam and I had skatewing on couscous with curry viniagrette. She likes to pair fruit with local cheeses. Chic atmo too. If a symphony or opera is on it can be mad until showtime. Odd I have not had much dessert here, since this is owned by prominent pastry chef Elizabeth Falkner, but the peach handpie last year was divine, and the bakery case is outrageous. You can stop in for bakery and dessert anytime, I had a great brunch once, but not sure about a.m. hours. They have a website.

[coughy]

We had a really fun dinner at Moose's.

[albie]

Surprised nobody's mentioned Bistro Scala (in the Sir. Francis Drake hotel), Pane e Vino and Via Vai! in the Italian category; I know it's a minority opinion, but I wasn't impressed by Rose Pistola; also agree that Tadich Grill shouldn't be missed.

[elyse]

El Cumbre on Valencia is my fave, but it can be very inconsistent.  They do the best carne asada, though.

They were my favorite too when I lived there in the late '80s. But they were always spot on. No beans, no rice. Fabulous meat. Excellent cookies. Do they still sell the caramel sandwich cookies?

[chi]

Isa Restaurant on Steiner St. had the best brioche served with seared fois and poached peach. Went back the next night just for that. Everthing else was superb as well. Possibly the best meal we had in S.F. and we were there to eat.

[Schneier]

2. Gary Danko, no question.

5. Yang Sing.

Bruce

[Gary Soup]

1) a real California burrito place (in the Mission, preferably),

2) a fantastic and interesting dinner place (nothing stuffy or traditional French please) in the $100/per person range,

3) a good Italian joint

4) the best place for Dim Sum.

5) And if anyone knows a great bakery for breakfast and coffee, we wouldn't mind the suggestion. 

Wow, am I demanding?  I'd be happy to suggest the same for anyone visiting the under-rated restaurants of DC.

Josh

1) If you mean a real San Francisco burrito, any of the place mentioned EXCEPT La Taqueria. No slam against La Taqueria, just that it's more Southern California/Mexican than the three-pound siesta-inducing puppies (bloated with rice and beans) we go for here in SF.

2) This kind of place is not in my budget (so sayeth the wife) but most of the votes seem to fall into the Gary Danko column for value, boldness and service, in my voyeuristic observations.

3) Do you mean joint as in JOINT? Gold Spike and Capp's Corner have all the cigarette smoke and celebrity photo patina, but are basically Italian-American bust-your-gut style. Rising with a bullet seems to be Osteria del Forno for quality and value, but it hasn't achieved "joint" status.

4) Maybe Harbor Village. Yank Sing has a lot of fans, but has a not strictly traditional "updated approach." For the full-on dim sum experience, with all the din and bustle, you might want to try Gold Mountain in Chinatown (or Y. Ben house, my favorite, but not quite as approachable).

5) Beats me.

[PekoePeony]

Aighhh! As a Chinese-American it's painful to read that people consider Yank Sing or Ton Kiang as the best dim sum in the Bay Area. More on that later.

2) a fantastic and interesting dinner place (nothing stuffy or traditional French please) in the $100/per person range,

Okay, Masa's is kinda stuffy and over $100/person, but if you go and don't order wine, it's absolutely worth the money. Best restaurant in the Bay Area. SF is known for its seafood, and the seafood here is better than at Aqua or Farallon or even Oceana (in NYC), the supposed seafood pinnacles. Meat is a bit weak at Masa's, though.

Slanted Door gets more raves, but I think the food at Thang Long (also higher-end pseudo-Vietnamese, though it's in nowhere land) is slightly better, though it's a bit much how people go on and on about their garlic noodles and roasted crab. Their dishes are a kind of like Nobu's -- really simple to make but pack a lot of flavor.

The food at Chez Panisse can either be so-so or really wonderful, depending on what's being served that day, but you should go anyways and pay homage to the temple of California cuisine. After all, if you're visiting SF you want something that's uniquely Bay Area, not something where you can get just as good food in LA (any Asian, Mexican) or NYC (Italian, French, etc.). $50/person for food (plus tax tip & drinks) if you go early in the week.

4) the best place for Dim Sum.

If you've never had dim sum before or only like the standard American dim sum, either Yank Sing or Ton Kiang is fine. All my non-Asian friends love Yank Sing. All my Chinese friends, and myself, don't find it that interesting. Go the Peninsula instead -- Koi Palace in Daly City is the best. If you're near the airport around dim sum or dinner time, go to Hong Kong Flower Lounge in Millbrae, just five minutes from the airport.

Have a great trip!

[Hest88]

All my non-Asian friends love Yank Sing. All my Chinese friends, and myself, don't find it that interesting. Go the Peninsula instead -- Koi Palace in Daly City is the best.

LOL! As another Chinese person, I agree with you. My lip curls everytime one of those "Best of" polls comes out naming Yank Sing the best dim sum in the Bay Area. As I've said before, I used to love Yank Sing as a child purely because they had jello-filled oranges and the like.

[marie-louise]

Aighhh!  As a Chinese-American it's painful to read that people consider Yank Sing or Ton Kiang as the best dim sum in the Bay Area.  More on that later.

Tell me more (you too, Hest88) What's not authentic/ what are we missing by eating at these two places instead of others? I prefer Ton Kiang over Yank Sing mainly because I prefer the steamed items over the deep-fried ones. Ton Kiang seems to have a wider variety of steamed dumplings. I've also eaten at Peony and Jade Villa, both in Oakland, but I like Ton Kiang best of all.

PS Since I live in Oakland and work near enough to Oakland's Chinatown to walk there for lunch, please speak up with any Oakland recommendations.

Thanks!

[pim]

Should you ever want to expand your South American food experience, I suggest Mi Lindo Peru in Bernal Heights. Be sure to try their Chupe, shrimp chowder, superificallydelicious I tell you.

As for Dim Sum, I agree with PeokoePeony and Hess88 about Yank Sing. It is way too americanized for my taste. The place I go most frequently is Harbour Village. They most closely resemble my familiar Hong Kong dim sum experience, and I am definitely partial to the Chiu-chow chilli sauce that they give you (if you know to ask that is). The chilli sauce is spicy, hot and complex tasting. I can't have a proper dimsum without it.

I also like Tong Kiang, though find them a tad too Taiwanese for my Hong Kong bias. Readily available parking at the Embarcadero buildings as opposed to driving ten times around the block searching for a space in the Sunset was another plus for Harbour Village.

I am not a big fan of dimsum in Chinatown. We tried Y Ben House at lunch today with a disastrous result. I started a review thread on it.

Koi Palace is very good, I just don't make it out there very often.

Edited August 11, 2003 by pim (log)

[PekoePeony]

Marie-Louise -- Ton Kiang has GREAT steamed dim sum, their leek dumplings and that green sauce (never see it anywhere else) are sooo good! And it's amazing how it tastes so fresh. That said, their menu is really limited to only a few items. While there's something to be said about going someplace that doesn't do many things but does most of them well, don't you want to have it all? At Koi Palace you can!

I just went to Koi Palace again this past weekend. During our 45-minute wait (with reservations!) my boyfriend and I were starting to wonder if it was really worth it, since none of the other dim sum restaurants make you wait as long or are such a hassle. But once we sat down and the food started coming out, we were in heaven! The pan-fried shrimp and scallop dumpling was absolutely sinful, and their Shanghai dumplings are also stellar. They have hundreds of dim sum floating around, all of them good and some of them really great. I have a huge grin on my face now even thinking about it!

Some people I know like Harbor Village, but I don't know why? The service is slow, there isn't much dim sum, and what you get isn't special? But then again, I haven't been in three years, so maybe things have changed (I did use to visit occasionally since it was close to Embarcadero). Jade Villa and Peony in Oakland are both decent, but they're no Koi Palace or HKFL. It's hard to describe why, since they're all large, bustling dim sum palaces, but Koi Palace has that extra depth of flavor. Give it a try, though maybe you should go early and avoid some of the wait -- it really is a pain.

[Gary Soup]

The pan-fried shrimp and scallop dumpling was absolutely sinful, and their Shanghai dumplings are also stellar.

Some people I know like Harbor Village, but I don't know why?  The service is slow, there isn't much dim sum, and what you get isn't special? 

I like Koi Palace, too, but the "Shanghai dumplings" we had there were laughable renditions of xiaolong bao: nearly spherical, cohesive meatball-like fillings that would fall out of the too-brittle wrappers, and no aspic broth evident. (To be fair, this was at dinner, and the dumpling chefs may have been off duty).

At Harbor Village, did you peruse the lower shelves of the carts? Where else will you see bat wings rolling by the unaware suited business lunchers?

[Jaymes]

Aighhh!  As a Chinese-American it's painful to read that people consider Yank Sing or Ton Kiang as the best dim sum in the Bay Area.  More on that later.

If you've never had dim sum before or only like the standard American dim sum, either Yank Sing or Ton Kiang is fine.  All my non-Asian friends love Yank Sing.  All my Chinese friends, and myself, don't find it that interesting.  Go the Peninsula instead -- Koi Palace in Daly City is the best.

You got that right -

I was reading this thread and thinking, "but all the Chinese like Koi Palace best - will no one mention that?"

And so here you come...

I have two dear friends that live in SF. Both Chinese. One is Chinese-American, but his father came to the US in his 20's to work in a Chinese restaurant, which he's done for the next 40 years, and is a master chef.

And my other friend has only been in the US from China for about four years.

Both of them know from Chinese food.

And both of them have tried Chinese restaurants all over the Bay Area and they each agree that nothing else comes close to Koi Palace.

"And that's what all my Chinese friends say, too," says the one that just got here from China.

In fact, she says that her mother and father have been to visit her three times from China, and Koi Palace is the first place they go - from the airport!

"My mom just LOVES that place," she adds.

[marie-louise]

Clearly, eating at Koi Palace must go to the top of the to-do list. Thanks!

[Jaymes]

Clearly, eating at Koi Palace must go to the top of the to-do list. Thanks!

It will be interesting to hear what you think.

Because of its enormous popularity with Chinese, and not so much with "white folk," I'm beginning to wonder if our vaunted cries for "authenticity" may fall under the heading of "be careful what you wish for."

Perhaps Koi Palace is TOO "authentic."

[alanamoana]

for $100+ I'msurprised no one has mentioned La Folie. I haven't eaten there, but I've gone to sit at the bar and had a couple of appetizers. It is among Masa's and Fleur de Lys and the Dining Room (at the Ritz Carleton) in quality/reputation. Besides, Polk Street is my old hood and you can skip the gelatinized frenchy desserts and go to 24hour Bob's Donuts (further south on polk) for great donuts (the later the better/fresher).

[marie-louise]

Koi Palace's dim sum menu. At the bottom is a link w/ pictures.

[marie-louise]

To PekoePansy, Hest88, and Jaymes-

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! My husband and I finally made it to Koi Palace today. It was so much better than any other dim sum we've ever had, it was unbelievable. We are on our last few days of vacation and were headed to the Wine Club for a little retail therapy. We decided to go there for lunch on the spur of the moment, so I didn't look up anyone's suggestions before going. I didn't even remember the name, just that it was somewhere in Serramonte! Luckily, we found it after a short but scenic auto tour of the Serramonte shopping center.

We had to wait about 20 minutes, which wasn't too bad considering we showed up right at noon. I ate and ate until I could eat no more, despite a strong desire to continue to stuff this incredible food into my mouth. Almost everything was vastly superior to other versions of the same dish. The BBQ pork buns (yeah, I know, what's the Chinese word for goyim) were incredible-a slight crispness to the outside of the dough, plus the filling was better. Other things that were great were the baked Egg Custard Bun, potstickers (nice gingery sauce), and some rice noodles w/ a spicy pork mixture on top. The only thing I didn't like was the pork su mai. The green onion cakes were different than usual, but good. We had more, but it is making me a little ill to recount how much we ate.

I think we should go here as an eGullet lunch sometime. Anyone else interested? The two of us ate enough food for three, and the bill was only $32.

Thanks again for the great tip.

PS We were not the only non-Asians; there were at least 2 or 3 others

[KarenS]

Great bakery- Boulangerie on Post (or otherwise known as Bay Bread). Better then Citizen Cake in my opinion. Oliveto is very good for Italian Though not a "joint". I think that Scala's Bistro is also good. I always enjoy Boulevard. One Market has gotten much better in the past few years. Delphina is also good. The Fifth Floor is very good. Have fun!

[rshorens]

I think we should go here as an eGullet lunch sometime. Anyone else interested? 

That sounds like a great idea! Maybe some Sunday in January, after we recover from the holidays!

Roz