All About Baking Pans (Cake, Sheet, Muffin)

[elyse]

To any and all who are trying to change my mind on the aluminum matter, I am going to continue to listen to the medical people around me. I dare say they have a better understanding of medical conditions etc.. You, I'll listen to for food. Them, I'll listen to for medical advice including aluminum = bad.

[Richard Kilgore]

elyse --- I don't have enough up-to-the-second scientific info on the aluminum issue. Robert L. Wolke in What Einstein Told His Cook (2002), writes that research has provided "conflicting and contradictory results." He says that at the time he wrote the book, that "the Alzhiemer's Association, the FDA, and Health Canada, the Canadian department of health, all agree that there is no verifiable scientific evidence for a relationship between aluminum ingestion and Alzheimer's disease, and that there is therefore no reason for people to avoid aluminum."

But the book came out last year, so perhaps there has been new, conclusive research published since he wrote it. Have your M.D. friends had a recent update on this? Any references? Any new info would be appreciated by all I am sure. Do they have new or more detailed research info on the risk level and under what conditions (all food contact with aluminum? acidic foods only? aluminum foil for cooking, for storage?)? Or do they simply say that since the research is contradictory and inconclusive, that they would rather eliminate any possible risk by not using aluminum for (whatever limits they personally set)?

[WHT]

Do they have new or more detailed research info on the risk level and under what conditions (all food contact with aluminum? acidic foods only? aluminum foil for cooking, for storage?)? Or do they simply say that since the research is contradictory and inconclusive, that they would rather eliminate any possible risk by not using aluminum for (whatever limits they personally set)?

Sounds kind of like the butter versus margarine controversy. Depending on the study it seems to have gone 3 ways. Margarine is better because it’s not animal fat, then they both are about as bad to Hydrogenated oils are more of a problem. The introductions of some of the newer spreads on the market making claims like Smart Balance.

I too would be interested in what the claims are based on. All I have is a few reports from the late 1990s and what I know about science from school.

[mamster]

elyse--

The best ways to reduce your intake of aluminum are (1) don't use aluminum-containing antacids or baking powder, and (2) don't eat fruits or vegetables. Fruits and vegetables grown in soil absorb aluminum from the soil--it's one of the earth's most abundant metals. Garlic, potatoes, carrots, and green beans have especially high levels of aluminum, relatively speaking. Tea leaves are extremely high in aluminum, although few people actually ingest much tea. People who want to minimize aluminum in their diet must avoid these foods and any other foods that absorb significant minerals from soil as they grow, including most grains. Seafood also contains relatively high levels of aluminum. For people who don't take daily antacids and who use non-aluminum baking powder, this is by far the largest source of aluminum in the diet, on the order of 10mg per day.

You may believe that any aluminum intake is harmful--that's possible. Aluminum is not an essential nutrient, it's certainly poisonous in large quantities, and it may still be related to Alzheimers. But nobody has ever demonstrated that the amount of aluminum released into food by using aluminum cookware even approaches the amount that most people get in fruits and vegetables, unless they are doing some pretty bizarre things with their cookware.

This is especially true for cake pans. The typical cake is low in acid (even a lemon cake is much less acidic than, say, tomato sauce) and does not cook at a very high temperature. The amount of aluminum that will enter a cake baked in an aluminum cake pan is barely measurable. It's almost certainly less than the amount of aluminum in a single pea.

Why do I care? I care because aluminum pans are the best pans I've ever used for making cakes, brownies, and a variety of other foods. You said you listen to us on food. Well, listen to this: the cakes I've made in my all-aluminum Magic Line pans are by far the best I've ever made. They brown evenly and predictably. Oh, and when I use the aluminum pans, I use parchment paper, which would further inhibit the transfer of aluminum from the pan to the food.

For my saucepans I use stainless-lined aluminum, because stainless is much less reactive than aluminum and unlikely to impart an off flavor or a toxic heavy metal to my food. I haven't tried the All-Clad cake pans, which I believe are similarly stainless-lined aluminum. I'm sure they perform very well. But the price is not worth an unmeasurable decrease in dietary aluminum.

Now, elyse: you've given us a medical warning. Would you please do me a favor and bring the information I've just presented to one of your medical friends and get a response? Because I would honestly like to know if they have new information that suggests that I'm wrong about aluminum from baking pans and that we recently learned that it accounts for even, say, a quarter as much aluminum as I get from eating beans and garlic, shrimp and potatoes.

Is everyone familiar with PubMed? It's a free interface to citations and abstracts from a wide variety of scientific journals. If you search PubMed for "aluminum cookware" and "aluminum pans" you'll find abstracts to several studies done in the last ten years or so, finding again and again that aluminum cookware does not contribute significantly to dietary aluminum. Here are a couple of typical extracts:

"A study was carried out of the leaching of aluminium from aluminium cooking vessels and packages. Very small or undetectable levels of aluminium leached from packaging materials into foodstuffs."

"The daily intake of aluminium even if all the foods were prepared and stored in aluminium containers would be approximately 6 mg/day, a very low value compared with the Provisional Tolerable Weekly Intake of 7 mg/kg body weight (equivalent to 60 mg/day for an adult man) established by the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee on Food Additives."

If anyone finds an citation on this topic and would like to read the full article, I might have access to it through my university; please ask me.

Oh, and Steve K, thanks for the great info on tart pans.

[Steve Klc]

Gosh Matthew, my little pan info pales in comparison to your last post--we all thank you for framing this issue in different terms, on the one hand I'd love to read links to any studies or assessments re: the dangers of baking in aluminum as elyse has suggested some authorities believe but I read the same things you probably read by Wolke, who is an underappreciated literate scientist and cook, and you've also made me think about the issue differently as well.

[nightscotsman]

Wow - fascinating stuff, mamster. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

Science really is good for something more than building giant robots and blowing stuff up.

[mamster]

I should add that I pieced that little diatribe together from the McGee piece and from various journals I have access to online. I didn't come across any study that concluded that aluminum cookware is a source of significant dietary aluminum and would have told you if I had, but that doesn't mean that such a study doesn't exist. In other words: I could be wrong, so proceed with caution.

nightscotsman, if you think there's a higher calling than building giant exploding robots, you are not from my world.

[WHT]

I should add that I pieced that little diatribe together from the McGee piece and from various journals I have access to online.  I didn't come across any study that concluded that aluminum cookware is a source of significant dietary aluminum and would have told you if I had, but that doesn't mean that such a study doesn't exist.  In other words:  I could be wrong, so proceed with caution.

nightscotsman, if you think there's a higher calling than building giant exploding robots, you are not from my world.

I would bet that you get more Aluminum from your Anti-Perspirant then cookware.

[elyse]

We'll have to wait on this for six weeks. My step is the main guy, and he's on the Cape for a while. He'll be coming home for a day or so, but I don't know when. Will try to remember though.

You also have to remember that we choose out own battles. I eat a pretty high cholestral diet, but won't use aluminum pans. It's just one of my things. Some things scare me, some don't. I ride my bike like a maniac, but won't close my eyes under water.

I don't use antacids or anti-perspirant.

I eat nothing from the water.

I'll look into the vegetation thing. Ouch.

I know aluminum is the best heat conductor, and I would ust it as a core material. My grandmother had a few restaurants a long time ago, and I recently gave away all of her giant pots because they were a scary thing to me. I sometimes regret it, but know I would feel awful using them.

Thanks for all the research mamster

[relatuit]

Go, Mamster!

I like my aluminum pans too.

[elyse]

I posted this elsewhere but seems it was on the wrong thread so I'm reposting it here.

Question about sheet pans. I was at the Bowery shops the other day, and they were selling sheet pans for say, $5.00, and $16.95. How cheap is too cheap if I'm a careful baker? The $5 ones didn't SEEM flimsy.... Would they warp? Pock? Cause me misery? I need around eight.

Any thoughts? I'm working in a convent so they want to keep the cost down, but I don't want to stick them with crap.

[Suzanne F]

A convent? YOU?????

Sorry.

If you can flex the pans with your hands, DON'T GET THEM. The sisters will cast all sorts of spells on you. If the pans feel fairly solid, don't flex, and weigh, oh, say 3 pounds each (full sheets, right?), get 'em.

[Fat Guy]

But aluminum ones -- even good aluminum ones -- will be somewhat lighter than that, right?

[melkor]

Having finally gotten fed up with all our sheet pans twisting in the oven we bought a pair of aluminum half sheet pans at a local restaurant supply place for $7 each. They are great, the silpats actually fit in them, they don't warp in the oven and they hold more stuff that normal baking sheets do. I'd say they are definitely worth the extra $1.50.

[elyse]

Around 3 lbs., no flex, may be lighter, no spells... got it.

I am seriously going to have to watch my language at this place.

[Suzanne F]

But aluminum ones -- even good aluminum ones -- will be somewhat lighter than that, right?

Well, I weighed the half-sheets I have, bought at Broadway Panhandler, and they came in at 1# 13oz each. But they seem super-heavy to me, more than I used to use at work. So 3# for a full sheet is probably not that far off.

The 10 X 13 pans I had for years were much, much lighter, in proportion, and flexed like crazy in a hot oven. I'm so glad I finally ruined them with grease dripping off my cast iron as it seasoned.

[elyse]

So thinner aluminum will flex?

By the way, I didn't see anything past Canal. Are they on side streets? I did collect cards of all the places I visited and tried to jot down what things cost, but some shops didn't have a THING priced. I have to visit again and findout about weights and flex. Should I look for a certain guage? Sorry if I'm being an idiot.

[Fat Guy]

I got mine at the place on the corner of Bowery & Delancey for I think six bucks (half-sheet). I'll weigh one later.

[bloviatrix]

By the way, I didn't see anything past Canal.  Are they on side streets?

I know of one place south of Canal -- Hung Chong Import at 14 Bowery (Pell St.) 212/349-1463.

[elyse]

Cool. Thanks!

[mjc]

I get mine at JB prince for under 6 bucks. They feel pretty light, and do not tend to warp.

[elyse]

That would be a half sheet?

[mjc]

That would be a half sheet?

yes

[FuturePilot]

Any good sheet pan shouldnt flex when hot. The commercial quality half-size ones usually sell for around 6 bucks and the big ones for around 7-8.

There's a place in brooklyn where we get all our stuff. The have two versions of the full-size one. One is realy heavy-weighs about 4.5 pound each for 8 and a lighter one (about 3.8 i think) for 7. (Place is called Kerekes..... It's on 15th ave. in Borough park, Brooklyn)

[FuturePilot]

Oh, forgot one thing. Do they actually allow the word "crap" in the convent...