Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's Modernist Pizza

[Robenco15]

Tokyo Marinara

 

This. Was. Great.
 

[Chris Hennes]

1 hour ago, Robenco15 said:

Tokyo Marinara

Did you get any good fireballs? Mine was very flamey .

[Robenco15]

9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Did you get any good fireballs? Mine was very flamey .

So no balls of fire, but some early did spill over on a turn and ignited right away. It was like having a handle in the back of the stove as it burned off the stone. I just kept the pizza away from it and all was good.

 

Think I'm going to make the Artisan dough this week and maybe mess around with Caputo Flour with their Neapolitan recipe. This Tokyo Marinara used the Biga dough I made, but I let it go one day too long in the fridge. Didn't rise anywhere near as much as it should, so I may try a Biga dough again.

[Chris Hennes]

Well, @weinoo, I'm afraid you're going to have to avert your eyes on this one as well, or risk annoyance once again! There is green on this pizza (and really, you can't include green peppers in your anti-green-ingredient list, can you?!). Like arugula, it requires pre-cooking. And like arugula, it is delicious, even if decidedly non-canonical on this now-two-day-aged New York crust. I am definitely improving on my crust making front: about half of the interior of this pizza was the thickness, or thinness, I was going for. I think the outer rim is still too puffy, though, so it's probably time to start downsizing the dough ball --- this pizza was every bit of 14" in diameter, and held its shape through enpeeling and delivery to the oven.

 

Mmmm. Brussels sprouts New York pizza!

 

 

[Duvel]

4 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Mmmm. Brussels sprouts New York pizza!

 

Looks fantastic, @Chris Hennes. I can’t tell from the crust - was this done in the Ooni ? The sprouts look perfectly caramelized …

[weinoo]

9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

There is green on this pizza (and really, you can't include green peppers in your anti-green-ingredient list, can you?!)

 

I don't know about the green peppers, @Chris Hennes; aren't there people here (not me!) who despise them?

 

What's the order of cooking for this pie? You say there's a pre-bake, but what goes on after that before it goes back for its rebake?

 

For comparative purposes, here are a few pix (taken a couple of years apart) of the actual Motorino pies, yes actually eaten by Significant Eater and me (as an aside, they always had a lunch special, which was along the lines of a whole pizza and a salad, unless I'm misremembering) for something like the price of a pie.

 

 

 

[weinoo]

I really think that with pizza, as can be seen in the above two photos, consistency may be the hardest concept to attain.

[Chris Hennes]

6 hours ago, weinoo said:

What's the order of cooking for this pie? You say there's a pre-bake, but what goes on after that before it goes back for its rebake?

Sorry to be unclear: I pre-sautéed the Brussels sprouts. Not to fully cooked, but about halfway there. Then I rough chopped them and baked the pizza as normal with them as a topping.

[Robenco15]

Made the direct Artisan Dough yesterday for tonight. Was awesome. Smell is incredible. Also did the pizza sauce but next time I’ll actually measure everything. Was great, just got lazy. This is Fior di Latte chunks, shredded mozzarella cheese, ricotta, and sausage. Working on honing in the oven temperature, but I think I got it with my second pizza (no pics of that one). 
 

 

 

[weinoo]

22 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Well, @weinoo, I'm afraid you're going to have to avert your eyes on this one as well, or risk annoyance once again! T

 

Never!  Maybe I (or you) can learn something!  Always willing to learn.

 

Nice job there, @Robenco15.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

13 hours ago, weinoo said:

I really think that with pizza, as can be seen in the above two photos, consistency may be the hardest concept to attain.

Variety is the spice of life.    Sure, we occasionally miraculously create an amazing pizza or quiche or souffle that defies description and certainly memory of how it was achieved.   Were we able to consistently recreate these, I dare say they would become a bore.    Or your spouse differs from mine.      

[weinoo]

9 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Were we able to consistently recreate these, I dare say they would become a bore.    Or your spouse differs from mine.      

 

I was referring to the consistency of pizza from a restaurant.  Or the consistency of any dish I might've eaten; it's the hallmark of good restaurant cooking.

 

Very hard to achieve with pizza from a wood burning oven; I've watched a pizzaiolo toss any number of test crusts at certain pizza places here, until he got the oven temp and timing right.

[Chris Hennes]

On 11/2/2021 at 1:04 AM, Duvel said:

Looks fantastic, @Chris Hennes. I can’t tell from the crust - was this done in the Ooni ? The sprouts look perfectly caramelized …

No, cooked in the home oven, but I pre-cooked the sprouts (I like them with a good amount of color, and pan-frying is the best way to get that deep Maillard flavor, IMO).

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Not sure what to call this:  at least inspired by Modernist pizza.  It is a 3 day fermented more or less Neapolitan dough with poolish.  As @Robenco15 suggested I used lower protein KA bread flour rather than Caputo Chef's 00, and mixed at 70% hydration.  As @Chris Hennes suggested I hydrated in the chamber vacuum.  I must say the dough handled beautifully, both for forming balls prior to fermentation and for shaping.

 

Poolish was 100g KA Organic Bread flour, 100g water, yeast (small amount, not measured).  Final dough was all the poolish plus 200g KA Organic Bread flour, 110 g water, 1.3g yeast, 7.5g salt, 0.6g ascorbic acid.

 

I mixed and kneaded by hand then finished hydrating in the chamber vacuum.  After dividing and shaping to a ball and cold fermenting three days at 54F, I brought dough to room temperature before final shaping.  I baked as usual on my preheated aluminum, under the oven broiler.  I was so pleased the pie did not stick to the peel.

 

The pie baked between 2 minutes and 2 1/2 minutes, rotating once.

 

 

 

 

So what went wrong?  I believe the dough was over proofed.  I think I should have used higher protein flour or not tried for a long fermentation.  For the second ball I may need to apply dough CPR.  Don't get me wrong, I have had worse pizza.  However the crust was dense and I thought far too salty.  Modernist recipes tend to call for more salt than I enjoy, although I can (and do) happily eat salt by itself.

 

Thoughts or suggestions?

 

 

[weinoo]

3 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Thoughts or suggestions?

Do you have a pizza place nearby? Domino's? Papa John's?

 

Kidding!  I have never found those long fermented doughs to my liking, be they modernist or old school.  They are exactly as you say - dense, with nothing to love about them. Possibly the reason that pizza places don't ferment their doughs for days on end, be they modernist or old school.

[Chris Hennes]

Diastatic malt powder can help with long ferments, but I agree with @weinoo here. I like one day of cold proofing, two at the outside, for exactly the reason you show here.

[Robenco15]

Some flours lend themselves better to long ferment times as well. Caputo Super Nuvola was literally made for long ferments. It’s possible with more common flours though, just gotta toy with it. Maybe a day if bulk ferment before balling. 
 

If doing a long cold ferment I like to give it a chance at RT for up to 4 hours to help it get started as the amount of yeast is so small. It happens though. That Tokyo Marinara above was fermented a day too long. Life can get in the way of pizza. 

[Robenco15]

Sausage, Pepper, Onion, Broccali Rabe, Mozzarella, Ricotta

 

Artisan Dough with Poolish

Edited November 5, 2021 by Robenco15 (log)

[dscheidt]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:02 PM, Chris Hennes said:

Totally possible: I've only ever used a wooden peel, and that's all I've got at the moment. We'll see how things develop as I move onto higher-heat pizzas. Regarding their recommendations, they have extensive discussion on ovens, for sure: which oven is best depends on which style of pizza you are making. I don't recall them having too much to say about peels, except to note that there are different kinds.

My experience is I want two kinds of peels in my kitchen.  A wooden one for launching the pie, and a metal one for pulling it out (and moving it around, it you do that).  Metal peels stick more than a wooden peel, but they're thinner and easier to get under the pizza. 

[Chris Hennes]

I now use the wooden peel exclusively to rotate the pizza (in the Ooni, anyway), and a larger stainless steel model for launch and extraction. On the thinner doughs I have a hard time getting the wooden peel under the raw pie in the first place, which is what prompted the purchase of the steel model. I've gotten much better at that in the intervening weeks, it's been a while since the last real failure in that regard.

[Chris Hennes]

Emergency Neapolitan Pizza Dough (KM p. 44)

 

I've been out of town for a few days, so I didn't have any dough ready to go for dinner tonight. I also haven't eaten pizza in four days (gasp!!) so this was clearly an emergency. They have "emergency" versions of most of their main dough recipes. For Neapolitan it's just a direct 68% hydration dough, risen for a couple of hours and then baked: nothing fancy at all. And... it was about what you'd expect. Acceptable in an emergency such as this one, but no substitute for the "real deal". It was denser and more uniform than typical, and was harder to work with. I also thought it was too salty: normally I like the salt content of their doughs, both in Modernist Pizza and in Modernist Bread, but this one took things too far, at 3.42% (compared to 2% for their normal Neapolitan).

 

 

[Robenco15]

3 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I now use the wooden peel exclusively to rotate the pizza (in the Ooni, anyway), and a larger stainless steel model for launch and extraction. On the thinner doughs I have a hard time getting the wooden peel under the raw pie in the first place, which is what prompted the purchase of the steel model. I've gotten much better at that in the intervening weeks, it's been a while since the last real failure in that regard.

That’s completely backwards but it it works for you, awesome. I’m going to get a GI Metals peel for launching and turning larger pizzas. I use a turning peel for Neapolitan and smaller ones, but after doing all of these larger ones I need something better than the cheap aluminum one I have. 

[Robenco15]

Made the high hydration Neapolitan dough the other night with 50% Pizzeria and 50% Super Nuvola. Had a gorgeous fully gluten developed ball for the bulk fermentation. Then when it came to ball it was just so difficult. That damn Super Nuvola really ups the difficultly at that hydration. The 100% Pizzeria is a light and beautiful pillow when all is said and done. Anyway, I’m keeping the balls in the fridge and just doing one a night or so. Did one tonight. Stuck on the peel during launch and have me an oval, but actually tasted great. Had a soft but crispy outer crust and a light and fluffy inner cornicione. That damn Super Nuvola is good!

 

Made the direct NY dough tonight. Got cute with it and added 25% whole wheat flour with the 75% breas flour. May be regretting that as kneading it to full gluten development was nearly impossible. I’m sure it’ll work out in the end. Going to divide into 400g and 609g balls and throw in the fridge for a few days. Should be great. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

19 minutes ago, Robenco15 said:

Made the high hydration Neapolitan dough the other night with 50% Pizzeria and 50% Super Nuvola. Had a gorgeous fully gluten developed ball for the bulk fermentation. Then when it came to ball it was just so difficult. That damn Super Nuvola really ups the difficultly at that hydration. The 100% Pizzeria is a light and beautiful pillow when all is said and done. Anyway, I’m keeping the balls in the fridge and just doing one a night or so. Did one tonight. Stuck on the peel during launch and have me an oval, but actually tasted great. Had a soft but crispy outer crust and a light and fluffy inner cornicione. That damn Super Nuvola is good!

 

Made the direct NY dough tonight. Got cute with it and added 25% whole wheat flour with the 75% breas flour. May be regretting that as kneading it to full gluten development was nearly impossible. I’m sure it’ll work out in the end. Going to divide into 400g and 609g balls and throw in the fridge for a few days. Should be great. 

 

Try a chamber vacuum sealer as Chris suggested.

 

[Robenco15]

3 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Try a chamber vacuum sealer as Chris suggested.

 

Lol outside of eGullet (I guess?) that’s not a very common tool to have in the kitchen. I don’t have $1k, the space, or the wife (!) to allow for that kind of purchase, haha. I’m sure it’s a great technique though. 
 

It comes down to the flour and technique though. I achieved full hydration with the high hydration dough, just need to get better shaping it and for the NY adding the whole wheat complicated things in a way I didn’t expect. I guess the chamber vac could have helped there but who knows.