Pacojet Competitor? The Ninja Creami

[andrewk512]

Koji rice sorbet

 

Wasn't a fan of this one, I think the flavor was too intense and the combination of the strong umami with the sweet/cold was hard to handle

 

[blue_dolphin]

For my next trick, I made honey thyme frozen yogurt.  The result was a bit sweeter than I'd prefer.  I suppose that's partly the nature of a honey-flavored mix and thyme helped balance out the sweetness so I'll call this successful, if not at all perfect. 

This was a modification of the Honey Chai Frozen Yogurt in Hello, My Name is Ice Cream. Instead of infusing the milk & cream with chai spices, I used thyme.  Almost all the thyme ice cream recipes unhelpfully give the amount of thyme in "sprigs" but this one calls for 30-40g for what's probably ~ a 1 qt batch.  Thyme varies a lot by variety, age, etc. but at least this gave me a starting point.  I used 20g for a half batch, ~ 1 pt.  When I tasted the mix before freezing, I thought it was both too sweet and too much thyme.  If I'd had more yogurt, I'd have mixed up some neutral base to mix in but I was out so I just froze it as it was.  As mentioned, the end result was still quite sweet but the thyme seemed more mild and overall helped balance the sweetness. 

 

I wouldn't mind trying this again with different sorts of honey. I used orange blossom honey here.  I've got cherry blossom honey that's lovely but delicate and avocado honey that's very dark in color and has a much stronger flavor that might work. 

[andrewk512]

38 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

For my next trick, I made honey thyme frozen yogurt.  The result was a bit sweeter than I'd prefer.  I suppose that's partly the nature of a honey-flavored mix and thyme helped balance out the sweetness so I'll call this successful, if not at all perfect. 

 

This was a modification of the Honey Chai Frozen Yogurt in Hello, My Name is Ice Cream. Instead of infusing the milk & cream with chai spices, I used thyme.  Almost all the thyme ice cream recipes unhelpfully give the amount of thyme in "sprigs" but this one calls for 30-40g for what's probably ~ a 1 qt batch.  Thyme varies a lot by variety, age, etc. but at least this gave me a starting point.  I used 20g for a half batch, ~ 1 pt.  When I tasted the mix before freezing, I thought it was both too sweet and too much thyme.  If I'd had more yogurt, I'd have mixed up some neutral base to mix in but I was out so I just froze it as it was.  As mentioned, the end result was still quite sweet but the thyme seemed more mild and overall helped balance the sweetness. 

 

I wouldn't mind trying this again with different sorts of honey. I used orange blossom honey here.  I've got cherry blossom honey that's lovely but delicate and avocado honey that's very dark in color and has a much stronger flavor that might work. 

 

Another great flavor combination! Looking at your link I wonder if they weighed the thyme or if their scale had good enough resolution for precision, 40g for 1 quart definitely seems like a lot.

 

 

Yesterday, I did the amazake sorbet from here: http://www.recipewisdom.com/recipes/koji-manzanita-berries/ - much better than the koji sorbet given the flavor was a lot more subtle. I think this would be nice in a fruit dessert. It also might be even better textured with milk/as an ice cream, maybe in the future I will try it again

 

I also made a chardonnay sorbet, flaming the chardonnay of all its alcohol and then rediluting it to its original weight with water and adding similar thickeners/stabilizers to my watermelon post. It was a little too soft post-processing, I am going to see how the texture does once it firms up in the freezer. Unfortunately cause the chardonnay flavor is so light, the maltodex comes through and is not desirable at all. I will probably try again without maltodex when I have another open bottle of wine and if it turns out good I'll post the recipe. I also purchased some ultrasperse 3 today, which I have never tried before, to see if it has a better flavor and could be used in place of maltodextrin. I am not sure why I am so obsessed with making creamy sorbets when I have no aversion to milk products, but the battle goes on...

Edited November 24, 2021 by andrewk512 (log)

[yimyammer]

On 11/22/2021 at 5:44 PM, andrewk512 said:

Koji rice sorbet

 

Wasn't a fan of this one, I think the flavor was too intense and the combination of the strong umami with the sweet/cold was hard to handle

 

 

bummer, it looks and sounds good

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

Rose Levy Beranbaum's vanilla.*  I knew from glancing at the recipe the result would be sweeter than I like.  That did not stop me from consuming a great deal.  Texture was perfect.  One spin on Ninja gelato setting.

 

 

*I took the liberty to homogenize the mix.  And I snuck in a drop of polysorbate 80.

 

 

[andrewk512]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:16 PM, yimyammer said:

 

bummer, it looks and sounds good

http://www.recipewisdom.com/recipes/koji-manzanita-berries/ - check out this one, same concept, but much better ratios and overall flavor

 

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Rose Levy Beranbaum's vanilla.*  I knew from glancing at the recipe the result would be sweeter than I like.  That did not stop me from consuming a great deal.  Texture was perfect.  One spin on Ninja gelato setting.

 

 

*I took the liberty to homogenize the mix.  And I snuck in a drop of polysorbate 80.

 

 

 

yum! how is the polysorbate 80? I have never tried it; I wonder if that can be used on those Ninja Creami booklet heavy creami recipes to prevent it becoming buttery

[ElsieD]

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Rose Levy Beranbaum's vanilla.*  I knew from glancing at the recipe the result would be sweeter than I like.  That did not stop me from consuming a great deal.  Texture was perfect.  One spin on Ninja gelato setting.

 

 

*I took the liberty to homogenize the mix.  And I snuck in a drop of polysorbate 80.

 

 

 

What does the polysorbate 80 do?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, ElsieD said:

 

What does the polysorbate 80 do?

 

Polysorbate 80 is an emulsifier that improves ice cream foam, resulting in better meltdown.

https://books.lib.uoguelph.ca/icecreamtechnologyebook/chapter/ice-cream-meltdown/

 

I first acquired polysorbate 80 for making Modernist gelato

https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/pistachio-gelato/

 

The Modernist Cuisine folks traditionally made their gelato in a Pacojet so their gelato recipes should work well in the Ninja.

 

Is polysorbate necessary in Rose's recipe?  No.  But I have a lifetime supply of polysorbate 80.  I like it, I use it.  In very, very small amounts.

 

 

@andrewk512, in my experience polysorbate 80 alone does not fix the problem of butter chunks or buttery mouthfeel in high fat ice cream.  But enough emulsifiers (egg yolk, polysorbate 80, glycerides), careful cooking of the mix, and proper homogenization should completely solve the problem.

 

https://books.lib.uoguelph.ca/icecreamtechnologyebook/chapter/homogenization-of-mix/

 

 

[andrewk512]

34 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Polysorbate 80 is an emulsifier that improves ice cream foam, resulting in better meltdown.

https://books.lib.uoguelph.ca/icecreamtechnologyebook/chapter/ice-cream-meltdown/

 

I first acquired polysorbate 80 for making Modernist gelato

https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/pistachio-gelato/

 

The Modernist Cuisine folks traditionally made their gelato in a Pacojet so their gelato recipes should work well in the Ninja.

 

Is polysorbate necessary in Rose's recipe?  No.  But I have a lifetime supply of polysorbate 80.  I like it, I use it.  In very, very small amounts.

 

 

@andrewk512, in my experience polysorbate 80 alone does not fix the problem of butter chunks or buttery mouthfeel in high fat ice cream.  But enough emulsifiers (egg yolk, polysorbate 80, glycerides), careful cooking of the mix, and proper homogenization should completely solve the problem.

 

https://books.lib.uoguelph.ca/icecreamtechnologyebook/chapter/homogenization-of-mix/

 

 

 

Nice. I have only ever seen it used in meat emulsions - Thomas Keller's beef shortrib wellington uses it, and some recipes in the new French Laundry book I think.

 

I will order some next time I make watermelon sorbet (probably next year, since my freezer supply ran out) to see if it could stop the color separation that occurs when the sorbet base freezes.

 

 

 

A Ninja Creami observation I've noted after making sorbet every day for the past week (I've been doing "water sorbets" to test different additives) is that the pre-process temperature does not affect much the post-process temperature. I have had the same post-process temps whether freezing in a -18C freezer or a -26C freezer. I think the final ice cream temperature after using the creami is more affected by the freezing point depression of the product. It always seems to come out 1-2 degrees warmer than the calculated "serving temp" in the ice cream calculator 

Edited November 26, 2021 by andrewk512 (log)

[ElsieD]

2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Polysorbate 80 is an emulsifier that improves ice cream foam, resulting in better meltdown.

https://books.lib.uoguelph.ca/icecreamtechnologyebook/chapter/ice-cream-meltdown/

 

I first acquired polysorbate 80 for making Modernist gelato

https://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/pistachio-gelato/

 

The Modernist Cuisine folks traditionally made their gelato in a Pacojet so their gelato recipes should work well in the Ninja.

 

Is polysorbate necessary in Rose's recipe?  No.  But I have a lifetime supply of polysorbate 80.  I like it, I use it.  In very, very small amounts.

 

 

@andrewk512, in my experience polysorbate 80 alone does not fix the problem of butter chunks or buttery mouthfeel in high fat ice cream.  But enough emulsifiers (egg yolk, polysorbate 80, glycerides), careful cooking of the mix, and proper homogenization should completely solve the problem.

 

https://books.lib.uoguelph.ca/icecreamtechnologyebook/chapter/homogenization-of-mix/

 

 

 

Thank you for the links.  How do you measure something like .8 grams of polysorbate?  How do you homogenize your mixture?  From reading the links you provided, it seems you need a machine and they don't seem to be available for home use.

[palo]

Amazon.ca has micro scales for under$20 (0.01g resolution - $14) - just search for cocaine supplies 😨

 

p

[JoNorvelleWalker]

10 minutes ago, palo said:

Amazon.ca has micro scales for under$20 (0.01g resolution - $14) - just search for cocaine supplies 😨

 

p

 

@palo, cocaine, I'm told, is a powder.  Polysorbate 80 is a viscous liquid.

 

[palo]

Sorry about that - just tare a container and go from there

 

p

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, ElsieD said:

 

Thank you for the links.  How do you measure something like .8 grams of polysorbate?  How do you homogenize your mixture?  From reading the links you provided, it seems you need a machine and they don't seem to be available for home use.

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/146620-absurdly-stupidly-basic-cooking-questions-part-2/?do=findComment&comment=2193763

 

...and following posts.  The short answer is if your scale is good enough simply weigh the polysorbate 80 into the sugar.  The shorter answer is just add a drop.  Modernist Pantry has a sale going on at the moment.

 

 

My homogenizer is the Biospec 1285.  I believe Kerry has the model 1281, the smaller version.

https://biospec.com/product/biohomogenizer

 

These homogenizers are for dairy applications, mine for up to two liters.   The motor is manufactured by the Swiss firm ESGE, which operates under the brand name Bamix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamix

 

This is what the Biospec generator looks like...

 

 

 

The generator represents most of the cost.  Whether this is for home use or not is up to you.  I have not been disappointed.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

With regard to the Rose Levy Beranbaum vanilla, after a pepper forward dinner I did not mind the sweetness near as much.

 

Is it considered rude to eat out of the Ninja jar?

 

[&roid]

So I’m going to jump into the creami pool too. My birthday is coming up and hopefully soon I’ll be the proud owner of a pacojet lite

 

any recommendations for a shopping list of the more esoteric stabilisers/enhancers to get in before it arrives? 

[andrewk512]

2 hours ago, &roid said:

So I’m going to jump into the creami pool too. My birthday is coming up and hopefully soon I’ll be the proud owner of a pacojet lite

 

any recommendations for a shopping list of the more esoteric stabilisers/enhancers to get in before it arrives? 

 

I think any stabilizer blend will do to start off. I use generic forumation cremodan 30 & 64; lots of people on the facebook group use avacream; here I've seen people make custom blends based on online recipes

 

I think a good cookbook is more important than anything - I like Hello, My Name is Ice Cream

 

Inulin, ultrasperse, fruit acids, milligram scale, polysorbate, dextrose, fructose, rotor stator homogenizer etc. not at all necessary to make a good product. If I had to start up a supplementary list though I'd get citric/malic acid, glucose syrup, and a milligram scale, this will set you up to use the HMNIIC book (although she provides alternates if you dont have them)

 

I might have to get myself one of those homogenizers one day though... but I still haven't found a use for it that I can't replicate similar good-enough-for-home results with other techniques

Edited November 27, 2021 by andrewk512 (log)

[blue_dolphin]

3 hours ago, &roid said:

So I’m going to jump into the creami pool too. My birthday is coming up and hopefully soon I’ll be the proud owner of a pacojet lite

 

any recommendations for a shopping list of the more esoteric stabilisers/enhancers to get in before it arrives? 

 

I'm a novice, so my 2 cents is worth about that much but here you go....  

First, you don't need any speciality ingredients to get started.  Plenty of normal kitchen ingredients function in those roles in conventional recipes for frozen desserts. 

If you have specific dietary aims (you need to avoid eggs or dairy or make vegan desserts or replace sugar with other sweeteners) you might call out that out here for specific recommendations. 

I recommend reading @paulraphael's excellent articles on stabilizers, emulsifiers and sugars.  

 

I see you've gotten good advice above by the more experienced @andrewk512.  I agree with his recommendation of Dana Cree's book. Excellent background information and each recipe generally offers the option of using a commercial stabilizer blend, specific gums or pantry ingredients like tapioca starch or cornstarch.  Also agree with his recommendation on ingredients and a little drug scale for weighing.

 

If decide you want to invest in some of these speciality ingredients, Modernist Pantry has a 17% off sale running through this Monday, 29 Nov and they're a decent one-stop-shop for this kind of stuff, offering reasonable quantities, generally at premium prices.  They also offer their own stabilizer blends for ice cream, gelato and sorbet. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by blue_dolphin
to correct sale date (log)

[&roid]

thanks  @andrewk512  and @blue_dolphin, really helpful replies

 

I've done as suggested and got a copy of Dana Cree's book on order along with a bit of generic stabiliser and some malic acid.  I've got a nice low weight precision scale from previous experiments so should be good to go

 

I'll have a read through those articles now while I wait for it all to arrive - I'll be sure to post back when I've made my first batch...

[paulraphael]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:16 AM, blue_dolphin said:

Almost all the thyme ice cream recipes unhelpfully give the amount of thyme in "sprigs" but this one calls for 30-40g for what's probably ~ a 1 qt batch.  Thyme varies a lot by variety, age, etc. but at least this gave me a starting point.  I used 20g for a half batch, ~ 1 pt.  When I tasted the mix before freezing, I thought it was both too sweet and too much thyme.  If I'd had more yogurt, I'd have mixed up some neutral base to mix in but I was out so I just froze it as it was.  As mentioned, the end result was still quite sweet but the thyme seemed more mild and overall helped balance the sweetness. 

 

That's a whole lotta thyme. How did you infuse it? I usually use 10g / liter, and it's strong. 

 

And yeah, anyone who gives you "sprigs" as a measure needs their cookbook writing license revoked.

[yimyammer]

threw in a can of mandarin oranges and it was pretty tasty for a low cal sweet tooth fix and SUPER easy

 

 

made Jenis Brown Butter Almond Praline and it was even better than store bought (because I can add more praline and almonds plus I sprinkled some Maldons seat salt on top to kick it up another notch)

 

 

This device could turn out to be dangerous (to my diet)

[blue_dolphin]

 

17 hours ago, paulraphael said:

That's a whole lotta thyme. How did you infuse it? I usually use 10g / liter, and it's strong. 

 

And yeah, anyone who gives you "sprigs" as a measure needs their cookbook writing license revoked.

Yes, the amount of thyme was almost comical.  The thyme went into the cream/milk/glucose/stabilizer mix after it was simmered but while still warm and sat for a while as it cooled. The volume of dairy mix was not large so I could barely get it all submerged and practically had to squeegee off the stems to afterwards 🤣.  The recipe said to infuse at least 15 min, possibly longer.  I tasted periodically and left them together for ~ 30 min.  I'm sure there are better ways!

 

Two sorbets from fall fruits.  Creamy persimmon sorbet from Serious Eats and a pomegranate cava sorbet found on Food52.  Both were spun on the sorbet setting.

I thought this would be a nice contrast between the warm, honey-like flavor of persimmon and the bright, tart flavor of pomegranat and the two brilliant colors. The textures were also a bit of a contrast with the persimmon super creamy, the pomegranate a bit icy.  I think I can improve that icy texture (less sparkling wine, for sure) but since I was going for a contrast, I'm ok with it for now.  

 

These next two are my stab at a cheese & fruit dessert plate.  They have almost zero contrast in color but the flavors couldn't be more different.  On the left is the Parmesan ice cream from Hello, My Name is Ice Cream and on the right is the Riesling-poached pear sorbet from Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams at Home served on a Parmesan frico.  I used the ice cream and sorbet settings respectively. No need to re-spin either.

These are really fun to eat together.  Could have added crystalized ginger to the pear or maybe break up some of that frico in the Parm but for this round, I just wanted to compare these 2 flavors. 

Both are smooth and creamy with the ice cream being very rich and the sorbet smooth as silk. 

 

[ElsieD]

Raspberry sherbet.  I wasn't sure what setting to use to spin it so used ice cream lite.  It's delicious, no iciness.  My only quibble is that while it is scoopable, I would have liked it to be a bit harder.  Should I have used a different spin cycle?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, ElsieD said:

Raspberry sherbet.  I wasn't sure what setting to use to spin it so used ice cream lite.  It's delicious, no iciness.  My only quibble is that while it is scoopable, I would have liked it to be a bit harder.  Should I have used a different spin cycle?

 

Maybe less sugar.

 

[ElsieD]

16 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Maybe less sugar.

 

 

It has 1 cup sugar for 3 cups of raspberries.  Do you think that's too much?  I also added some Chambord, although not a lot.  Today it was harder and perfectly scoopable.

Edited December 1, 2021 by ElsieD
fixed typo (log)