Chocolate Tempering: Tips and Troubleshooting

[Jonathan]

Thick slabs won’t cool evenly and you’ll get streaks even if it was tempered properly, if you want to store it just spread it out a little

[wannabechocolatier]

2 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Thick slabs won’t cool evenly and you’ll get streaks even if it was tempered properly, if you want to store it just spread it out a little

Thanky

[Jim D.]

I have long had a question that is related to the topic of this thread.  In tempering, once all the crystals are melted, tempered seed is added (or formed from scratch if hand-tempering) so as to "encourage" Type V crystals to form.  The theory is that more and more of them will form, and the chocolate will be "in temper."  If I understand the theory correctly, if the chocolate is allowed to cool, the undesirable crystals (I-IV) would ordinarily form, but because there are so many Type V, the others cannot.  If this is true, then why (as @wannabechocolatierdescribed) does a poured slab often show obvious signs of not being in temper?  Is it the "latent heat of crystallization" that throws the slab out of temper (too thick for the heat to escape), or do Types I-IV somehow manage to form?  When I empty out a large bowl of leftover tempered chocolate onto parchment to be saved for another batch, I encounter various outcomes:  Sometimes, when the slab is not so thick, the chocolate seems to be perfectly in temper (shiny, no streaks, plenty of snap).  Other times the slab becomes bendable, off-color--obviously out of temper.  At still other times the slab has a swirly, marble-like pattern but might still have some snap.  On the other hand, some manufacturers sell fairly thick bars of chocolate (I often use these as seed), and they are presumably in temper.  How do they manage that?  Are we in a theoretical, Mark Heim-like area of expertise here?  Any ideas?

[wannabechocolatier]

@Jim D. My guess is that type V crystals don't propagate as quickly as we've been led to believe. If that's the case, then if a large block is cooling and there's a section with no adjacent type V crystals and that section is cooled sufficiently before it's reached, it'll set untempered.

 

Maybe manufacturers keep their chocolate at the proper temperature for long enough so that the crystals fully propagate. They also probably have the means to agitate their mixtures really well, so that type V crystals are constantly contacting uncrystallized areas and propagating. 

 

That's my theory, anyway, not sure what else it could be.

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I have long had a question that is related to the topic of this thread.  In tempering, once all the crystals are melted, tempered seed is added (or formed from scratch if hand-tempering) so as to "encourage" Type V crystals to form.  The theory is that more and more of them will form, and the chocolate will be "in temper."  If I understand the theory correctly, if the chocolate is allowed to cool, the undesirable crystals (I-IV) would ordinarily form, but because there are so many Type V, the others cannot.  If this is true, then why (as @wannabechocolatierdescribed) does a poured slab often show obvious signs of not being in temper?  Is it the "latent heat of crystallization" that throws the slab out of temper (too thick for the heat to escape), or do Types I-IV somehow manage to form?  When I empty out a large bowl of leftover tempered chocolate onto parchment to be saved for another batch, I encounter various outcomes:  Sometimes, when the slab is not so thick, the chocolate seems to be perfectly in temper (shiny, no streaks, plenty of snap).  Other times the slab becomes bendable, off-color--obviously out of temper.  At still other times the slab has a swirly, marble-like pattern but might still have some snap.  On the other hand, some manufacturers sell fairly thick bars of chocolate (I often use these as seed), and they are presumably in temper.  How do they manage that?  Are we in a theoretical, Mark Heim-like area of expertise here?  Any ideas?

It is indeed the latent heat - I can make this effect happen by encouraging the latent heat to stay around - so what happens is the form V crystals get melted out in the heat.

 

 

[pastrygirl]

4 hours ago, Jim D. said:

On the other hand, some manufacturers sell fairly thick bars of chocolate (I often use these as seed), and they are presumably in temper.  How do they manage that? 

 

Cooling tunnels

https://www.sollich.com/en/products-en/chocolate-processing-en/cooling-tunnels-en

[jedovaty]

Hi:  I temper chocolate with homemade "silk".  I've found I have to rapidly cool the chocolate to prevent blooming as well as loss of temper, i.e. put it in the fridge for 30-60 minutes.  I'm using the fancy pricey GP-610 tomric molds, filling each bar with ~50g dark chocolate.

 

Blooming always occurs if I let it set slowly at room temp, which ranges 60-75F.  Does this sound right, or am I potentially doing something wrong?

 

I'm asking this question to help me troubleshoot another issue (which I'll bring up later if needed, trying to figure things out on my own ;))

 

PS: fwiw, this is a hobby, I make a few bars every couple months for fun to taste varieties of cacao I roast.  Not a commercial operation.

[Kerry Beal]

Yup - you need the cooling part or the latent heat of crystallization will learn ya!

[jedovaty]

Thanks KB, happy to know I was on the right track there.  I'll post new thread later after one more test, although, I suspect the issue is still tempering related.

[kstone2016]

I need some help troubleshooting my tempering. I recently got a sous vide to temper my cocoa butter. I made a batch of (what I thought was) tempered cocoa butter... The consistency was pretty thick like mayonnaise, but there were some tiny lumps left. I went ahead and let it set up on parchment paper for a day and then I grated it into a bowl (2% of the total weigh of the chocolate). I heated up my semi sweet chocolate (Callebaut) to about 103F and let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes. It left residue on the parchment and didn't have a clean snap. When I let it set up it also bloomed. 

 

I am wondering if anyone who tempers their cocoa butter with a sous vide can show me a picture of what it looks like when it is right? What temperature to you leave it at? I used 92.4F for 24 hours. Also is there a way to check that the cocoa butter is tempered?

 

Suppose my cocoa butter was tempered right, is there any trick to seeding the chocolate? I used to temper in the microwave by not going over 95F but it was very tedious...

[pastrygirl]

3 hours ago, kstone2016 said:

let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes.

 

What temp was it after the minute of stirring?  95 may have been too warm and melted the CB bits too quickly, not leaving enough stable crystals once the chocolate cooled below 90.  Also, I think temper tests at room temp are more telling.  Lots of things will solidify in the fridge.

[Jim D.]

3 hours ago, kstone2016 said:

I need some help troubleshooting my tempering. I recently got a sous vide to temper my cocoa butter. I made a batch of (what I thought was) tempered cocoa butter... The consistency was pretty thick like mayonnaise, but there were some tiny lumps left. I went ahead and let it set up on parchment paper for a day and then I grated it into a bowl (2% of the total weigh of the chocolate). I heated up my semi sweet chocolate (Callebaut) to about 103F and let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes. It left residue on the parchment and didn't have a clean snap. When I let it set up it also bloomed. 

 

I am wondering if anyone who tempers their cocoa butter with a sous vide can show me a picture of what it looks like when it is right? What temperature to you leave it at? I used 92.4F for 24 hours. Also is there a way to check that the cocoa butter is tempered?

 

Suppose my cocoa butter was tempered right, is there any trick to seeding the chocolate? I used to temper in the microwave by not going over 95F but it was very tedious...

 

Without getting into your questions about the cocoa butter, I think it's important to know that you should not put chocolate in the refrigerator to test for temper.  Any chocolate will harden in the fridge; that does not mean it is correctly precrystallized.  You can spread a bit on parchment, then wait for a few minutes at room temp (milk and white take longer) to see what it looks like.  If it turns from glossy to matte in appearance in a few minutes, you will know you are on the right track.

[Kerry Beal]

6 hours ago, kstone2016 said:

I need some help troubleshooting my tempering. I recently got a sous vide to temper my cocoa butter. I made a batch of (what I thought was) tempered cocoa butter... The consistency was pretty thick like mayonnaise, but there were some tiny lumps left. I went ahead and let it set up on parchment paper for a day and then I grated it into a bowl (2% of the total weigh of the chocolate). I heated up my semi sweet chocolate (Callebaut) to about 103F and let it cool to 95F before adding the grated cocoa butter. I stirred it for about a minute and then put a small amount on parchment paper in the fridge for 5 minutes. It left residue on the parchment and didn't have a clean snap. When I let it set up it also bloomed. 

 

I am wondering if anyone who tempers their cocoa butter with a sous vide can show me a picture of what it looks like when it is right? What temperature to you leave it at? I used 92.4F for 24 hours. Also is there a way to check that the cocoa butter is tempered?

 

Suppose my cocoa butter was tempered right, is there any trick to seeding the chocolate? I used to temper in the microwave by not going over 95F but it was very tedious...

Thick like mayonnaise with little lumps might well be old cocoa butter with form VI conversion. 

 

And what @pastrygirl and @Jim D. said about refrigeration for a temper test.

 

 

[kstone2016]

On 9/29/2022 at 5:01 PM, pastrygirl said:

 

What temp was it after the minute of stirring?  95 may have been too warm and melted the CB bits too quickly, not leaving enough stable crystals once the chocolate cooled below 90.  Also, I think temper tests at room temp are more telling.  Lots of things will solidify in the fridge.

It was 92 degrees after the minute of stirring. That’s about where it should be right?

[kstone2016]

On 9/29/2022 at 5:02 PM, Jim D. said:

 

Without getting into your questions about the cocoa butter, I think it's important to know that you should not put chocolate in the refrigerator to test for temper.  Any chocolate will harden in the fridge; that does not mean it is correctly precrystallized.  You can spread a bit on parchment, then wait for a few minutes at room temp (milk and white take longer) to see what it looks like.  If it turns from glossy to matte in appearance in a few minutes, you will know you are on the right track.

I will definitely give this a try next time I mess around it with  thanks!

[kstone2016]

On 9/29/2022 at 7:48 PM, Kerry Beal said:

Thick like mayonnaise with little lumps might well be old cocoa butter with form VI conversion.

 

Is there anything that can be done about this?

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, kstone2016 said:

Is there anything that can be done about this?

Melt it out to around 60º C. Let cool at room temperature until totally solidified again. You can then put back in your sous vide. If it still has these little chunks after that - it may just be too old to be rehabilitated. 

[pastrygirl]

5 hours ago, kstone2016 said:

It was 92 degrees after the minute of stirring. That’s about where it should be right?

92 is high

 

the general rule is

85-88 white

86-89 milk

87-90 dark

[TheLastOfUs]

On 10/5/2022 at 4:39 PM, Kerry Beal said:

Melt it out to around 60º C. Let cool at room temperature until totally solidified again. You can then put back in your sous vide. If it still has these little chunks after that - it may just be too old to be rehabilitated. 

 

Hi Kerry

 

What about when you put the molds in the fridge for "latent heat of crystallization." Why would testing temper in a fridge be bad, when molded chocolate can go into a fridge for 15 minutes, etc. as I recall from your past posts?

 

The biggest issue I have as someone without a fancy chocolate tempering machine is while I'm waiting for the chocolate (mostly milk) to set up - the batch gets too cool........how does one manage this? It's always such a struggle.

 

Thank you for the clarification in advance

Edited October 11, 2022 by TheLastOfUs (log)

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, TheLastOfUs said:

 

Hi Kerry

 

What about when you put the molds in the fridge for "latent heat of crystallization." Why would testing temper in a fridge be bad, when molded chocolate can go into a fridge for 15 minutes, etc. as I recall from your past posts?

 

The biggest issue I have as someone without a fancy chocolate tempering machine is while I'm waiting for the chocolate (mostly milk) to set up - the batch gets too cool........how does one manage this? It's always such a struggle.

 

Thank you for the clarification in advance

Ok - to modify above - if you put your temper test in the fridge - make sure it sits out long enough that if it isn't in temper then you'll know because it will melt again.

 

I keep chocolate warm in the bowl by putting it 7 seconds at a time in the microwave. 

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, TheLastOfUs said:

 

What about when you put the molds in the fridge for "latent heat of crystallization." Why would testing temper in a fridge be bad, when molded chocolate can go into a fridge for 15 minutes, etc. as I recall from your past posts?

It's different because in the first instance you already know your chocolate is pre-crystallized and you're just helping it along. 

It's unreliable as a test because chocolate will solidify when cold whether tempered or not.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

It's different because in the first instance you already know your chocolate is pre-crystallized and you're just helping it along. 

It's unreliable as a test because chocolate will solidify when cold whether tempered or not.

 

 

Well, yes, but in my admittedly very limited chocolate experience, untempered cold chocolate won't snap.  Am I incorrect?

 

[Kerry Beal]

13 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Well, yes, but in my admittedly very limited chocolate experience, untempered cold chocolate won't snap.  Am I incorrect?

 

Cold enough it might. 

[Jim D.]

14 hours ago, TheLastOfUs said:

 

Hi Kerry

 

What about when you put the molds in the fridge for "latent heat of crystallization." Why would testing temper in a fridge be bad, when molded chocolate can go into a fridge for 15 minutes, etc. as I recall from your past posts?

 

The biggest issue I have as someone without a fancy chocolate tempering machine is while I'm waiting for the chocolate (mostly milk) to set up - the batch gets too cool........how does one manage this? It's always such a struggle.

 

Thank you for the clarification in advance

 

Kerry has already answered you, but I will add that you should let the molds sit out at room temp until the appearance of the chocolate turns from shiny to matte before they go into the fridge to dissipate the latent heat, so it's not the same thing as putting a temper test strip immediately into the fridge.  As for milk chocolate, I agree with you totally.  By the time the test is complete, the chocolate has gotten too cool (that is, without a tempering machine to keep it in temperature).   You just have to find a way to heat it up a little (Kerry's microwave idea is one--though a little scary sometimes and it won't work if you are using a metal bowl--a hair dryer is another).  Last week a bowl of milk chocolate (in a Chocovision machine) stubbornly refused to test as tempered.  I first used some seed, then some EZtemper silk.  The tests finally looked as if the chocolate was in temper, but I paid the price for that assumption as some of the chocolates--even ones in magnetic molds--refused to come out of the molds.  I have yet to figure out why that happened.  Can previously used chocolate sometimes be impossible to temper?  We are always learning.

[TheLastOfUs]

Wow, imagine my surprise when Kerry Beal, Jim D, pastry girl and Jo all reply to my question. I felt like it's the Avengers assembling! I have contacted each of you individually in different posts before for your wisdoms so this is quite the pleasant surprise 😁

 

Admittedly - I myself have limited workings with chocolate - but yesterday I decided to pick up some old chocolate I forgot about and temper it. I did some chocolate writing (yikes looked like a serial killer wrote it...lol) and added chocolate to those hexagonal diamond looking polycarb molds (I have just 1) to test it out.

 

First of all - surprising that untempered chocolate can snap in the fridge...in the past this definitely has been something I have been guilty of thinking it "passed."

 

Ironically - the temper test I did at room temp this time - and it set up matte and looked glossy under the light at an angle - but I'm not sure if it's supposed to "snap" right away? How long does one wait for a "snap" to check if "in temper"?

 

I ended up adding the chocolate from the molds admittedly into a 55-60F +/-1F cooler for 30 mins as opposed to 78F room temp (I believe after 2 mins of molding which may have been my mistake). Tried to unmold - didn't pop out. 1 hour. Took them out - Banged on the mold hard...nothing. Noticed that there's little water droplets forming on the chocolate. Realized from one of Kerrys posts that I quite frankly don't understand about "Dew point" that I'm sugar-bloom screwed. lol. Some say to preheat molds..others say keep it cool. Mine were just room temp...not sure what the deal is on mold temperature before molding. I was attempting to pop out the chocolates with JUST the top shell - not the entire thing like a solid piece.

 

It may help if I get a hygrometer or something that can measure my RH levels so I can see how "cool" I can make my chocolate....some people say you can leave molds in the fridge...but I'm not too sure....I'm assuming if that's possible - you may need a dehydrator or something to allow them to come back up to room temperature without condensating with water in some form...

 

Not sure why it didn't come out the mold....but I didn't polish them off before use other than with a paper towel ...not even sure HOW to properly do that. Just rub it incessantly with cotton? I don't use cocoa butter for color - I was attempting straight chocolate from the mold...

Edited October 12, 2022 by TheLastOfUs (log)