Bread Served in Restaurants

[Lesley C]

I find warm bread in restaurants tacky -- unless it's those Parker House rolls or biscuits. Sliced brioche should be served warm or toasted and must be wrapped in a napkin to keep warm. And baguette should never be reheated, unless toasted. If you reheat it, the crust gets even harder and the center dries out. Baguette is all about the contrast between crisp crust and slightly chewy (never fluffy) soft center. That's why it must be sliced at the very last minute.

Butter must be room temperature. Cold butter is silly. Worse is the hotel practice of serving butter shapes on a tray of ice with parsley scattered on top.

For the cheese course, there must be an assortment of breads, including a levain-type bread and a nut or raisin bread.

[menton1]

I don't expect that much difference between an American restaurant and a French one, but then again I live and eat in NYC. 

, I

Bux, you surprised me with that one-- Most of the restaurants in France do not turn over the tables at dinner. (Except maybe the high-volume Michelin's). There just isn't enough time. You sit down between 8 and 9, and finish around 11, 11:30. Here they try to get 2 or 3 turnovers at dinner seatings. Anything above 90 minutes in the US, and the restaurant starts cleaning the table and handing you the check.

The only exception might be in Paris, where I have seen some turnover of the tables at the busier places.

N.B. Some of the best restaurant bread I have had in France has been in the ëmorning, standing at the "Zinc" having a café crème with a small baguette and butter-- fabulous!! (served room temperature!)

[bushey]

Depending on the bread, room temperature is fine by me, though I have fond memories of the restaurants of yore that used to serve popovers fresh from the oven.  Haven't seen that for years and years.

Popovers get a big yum from me. There's a restaurant nearby in Amherst, MA that serves fantastic popovers with apple butter. Problem is, by the time I'm through with the popover I'm too full to eat my dinner! Fortunately, though, they offer a soup-salad-popover combo that's just right.

As for the bread temperature issue, I prefer warm fresh-baked bread and love it when a restaurant has the timing down to bake off several batches of rolls throughout the dinner service.

[srhcb]

If bread is fresh, ie: still warm, or specially baked to be served warmed, fine. If not, it's a disguise.

Then again, warm bread will quickly cool to room temp, whereas a diner has no means of heating cool bread?

SB (six of one, half dozen the other)

[tommy]

Then again, warm bread will quickly cool to room temp, whereas a diner has no means of heating cool bread?

nobhill, in las vegas, serves bread on a platter that is kept warm with a sterno type thingie. the bread is baked fresh all day long. nice touch.

[KarenS]

Most breads cold, (and I don't need butter). We bake 400 popovers everyday (for lunch)- those should be warm.

Bread should also be served with your starter (or salad/ soup). It is not an appetizer. I can't stand to see people wolf down a loaf of bread before they have been served any food- then they ask for more bread (of course, free).

I agree that heating is not good for baguettes, levain, and other naturally fermented breads. You ruin the crust and dry out the bread (since they are only flour, water, and salt). The baker went through a lot of effort to create that glorious crust!

[Fat Guy]

First of all where the heck is Robert Schonfeld?

Second, I'm surprised how little support we're seeing here for warm bread and in particular warm rolls. I'm sorry people, but warm rolls almost always taste better. Is anybody actually denying this?

[snowangel]

If it's crusty, I want it room temperature. If it's soft-crust, I want it warm. I want my butter cool; not hard, not soupy.

And, I don't want a quantity that will fill me up; I want to enjoy the rest of the meal.

[KateW]

Didnt have time to read all the posts but saw one that said they hate it when bread isnt served immediately.

At cooking school we are learning not to serve bread before people order, as it hinders the appetite.

Really has nothing to do with warm or cold bread but addresses the other issue of it not always being served right as you sit down.

[stefanyb]

Didnt have time to read all the posts but saw one that said they hate it when bread isnt served immediately.

At cooking school we are learning not to serve bread before people order, as it hinders the appetite.

Really has nothing to do with warm or cold bread but addresses the other issue of it not always being served right as you sit down.

Actually I think this opens an interesting can of worms.

What is the prime directive, so to speak, of a restaurant? If people come in hungry and want to have something right away shouldn't a restaurant provide them with whatever they would like? You're saving their appetite? For whose benefit? The bottom line? My mother would always tell me not to eat, say, a cookie before dinner because it would spoil my appetite. Is the restaurant playing Mommy?

Personally, I think bread should be served with water and menus. Of course, it does depend on the place and the cuisine.

[macrosan]

I'm surprised how little support we're seeing here for warm bread and in particular warm rolls. I'm sorry people, but warm rolls almost always taste better. Is anybody actually denying this?

I am denying this. In my opinion, warming bread tends to make it lose its flavor. That may be an excellent idea for crappy tasting bread but if the bread is good, leave the taste alone !!!

... on the other hand, in relation to your comment on support, if Warm Bread is running for election or something, then I'm willing to support it on the basis that it's a clear underdog, and has no hope of winning votes from a sophisticated electorate, but I believe in democracy and would wish to ensure that it gets a fair hearing hahaha

Edited January 31, 2003 by macrosan (log)

[Fat Guy]

Okay let's assemble a bit of a database here.

Paris: Are we pretty much in agreement that all Michelin-starred restaurants serve cold (sorry, room-temperature) bread?

New York: What are the data points here? Lespinasse, definitely warm rolls. Ducasse, definitely cold. Jean Georges, I think cold but I can't remember for sure. Who remembers what the other top places do?

[macrosan]

I'm not convinced a straw poll moves the debate forward The question is surely "Does bread taste 'better' when warmed ?" and not "Is it 'correct' to serve warm bread ?". N'est ce pas ?

[Fat Guy]

Stop trying to censor me!

No, really, I think the straw poll shows something. I don't know what, bit I find it interesting.

[menton1]

Second, I'm surprised how little support we're seeing here for warm bread and in particular warm rolls. I'm sorry people, but warm rolls almost always taste better. Is anybody actually denying this?

FG, I definitely vote for warm bread; After all, I started this thread based on a visit to a "better" restaurant in NJ, where the bread was"room temperature", and when I asked for it to be heated, they were quite nonplussed, and, worse, never brought the bread back for 15 minutes!!

I agree with the writer that said that actually, the restaurant should accommodate the patrons whatever their wish is.

I do agree that I have never had warm bread in France, but here in the US, I do expect it, and I don't agree that it's an excuse for stale bread, especially in an above average restaurant.

[Bux]

I don't expect that much difference between an American restaurant and a French one, but then again I live and eat in NYC. 

Bux, you surprised me with that one-- Most of the restaurants in France do not turn over the tables at dinner. (Except maybe the high-volume Michelin's). There just isn't enough time. You sit down between 8 and 9, and finish around 11, 11:30. Here they try to get 2 or 3 turnovers at dinner seatings. Anything above 90 minutes in the US, and the restaurant starts cleaning the table and handing you the check.

The only exception might be in Paris, where I have seen some turnover of the tables at the busier places.

That was my mean twin brother dissing NJ. Pay him no attention. When he's in Paris he disses the provinces as well.

[Jinmyo]

I can certainly see soft rolls and soft breads being heated. What could it matter? Sure, they taste better because, although they're soft, at least they're not cold. Which is at least something.

But heating a baguette, a levain, or a petit pain to accord with a patron's delusions about "fresh out of the oven" is appropriate for a Pillsbury's advert (which is the kind of source such delusions have) and not for a restaurant that might take some justified pride in their product.

A patron might want to put ketchup on their quail, stick the whole bird in their mouth with the legs protruding, and let the ketchup drip off their chins while they go from table to table and leer, moving the legs back and forth with their jaw.

I don't think that this should be accommodated. Nor should a demand for warm bread when that bread should not be warmed.

Unless it's just soft rolls or such, of course.

Because they're better that way.

[Basildog]

A patron might want to put ketchup on their quail, stick the whole bird in their mouth with the legs protruding, and let the ketchup drip off their chins while they go from table to table and leer, moving the legs back and forth with their jaw.

HA HA!

I had to have that for my signature, but it won't all fit.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Some people have brought up the distinction of "bread" and "breads", which to me mean loaf bread and small breads, or muffins, buns and rolls. In America, in certains eras and in certain regional type restaurants it has been traditional to serve baskets of what were purported to be warm housemade small breads. I have been offered warm "loaf" bread of what I discerned to be of ordinary quality and dubious age. In more food-focused restaurants, superior bread has usually been served at room temperature, either with butter or in the last few decades, olive oil. I don't remember being served warm bread in France, except at breakfast.

[macrosan]

I can certainly see soft rolls and soft breads being heated. What could it matter? Sure, they taste better because, although they're soft, at least they're not cold. Which is at least something.

I am sujre this paragraph was created by computer It seems to consist of four entirely unconnected sentences, each of which is about as non sequiturious to the previous one as could be imagined Jinnysan, please disclose what you were drinking when you wrote this --- I want some of it

In America, in certains eras and in certain regional type restaurants it has been traditional to serve baskets of what were purported to be warm housemade small breads.

Margaret, have you any view as to why this might be ? What was the concept behind the tradition ?

[wingding]

Rolls warm,biscuits freshly made,baguettes and such,room temp.My biggest bread service peeve is the server who keeps coming by with a variety of breads,asking me to choose a piece,interrupting conversation at the table continually.Give the table a small basket with a variety of breads,and leave us alone!

Edited February 1, 2003 by wingding (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

menton1 - There are several points needing addressing in the original post of this thead. First, if you are going to mention that a conversation started in another thread, it would be helpful if you provided a link to the original thread. I did a search and found it, Blue Sky in Montclair, NJ, for those that are interested. I thought your original post was very telling. You were annoyed by the pitch for bottled water, and then asked for fresh bread to be rewarmed. I have a feeling you were at that point labeled as trouble to the waitstaff. Second, while I would consider this restaurant to definitely be "above average" when you cryptically describe it as "one of the 'better' restaurants in the state" and that "good bread always tastes better warmed, and should ALWAYS be served that way at a 'finer' restaurant" I assumed you meant one of the really upscale places like the Ryland Inn or something, not an above average bistro.

What I find is that warmed bread, wrapped in a napkin and served in a basket, is most typical of very "average" places, especially Italian-American pasta joints, like the Pasta Pot in Hackensack (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course of course, etc.). The typical 24-hour (or not) diners tend to serve an assortment of rolls, muffins, and plastic wrapped crackers & breadsticks, unwrapped, usually not warmed and in a basket. Places I consider "above average" will tend to have decent bread, served room temperature, frequently on a plate. "Finer" places usually serve bread individually and this is definitely not warmed over, but must be very fresh. An interesting variation on this is a better restaurant that serves an unusual assortment of bread in a vessel that is not a basket. America Restaurant in Tenafly, NJ, does this. Their bread is served in a metal bucket and includes spicy cornbread and homemade looking flats & breadsticks.

My conclusion? 1) As long as the bread is fresh, serve it at room temperature. 2) If the bread is not fresh, please don't warm it and to pass it off as fresh. 3) If you send back fresh bread and ask it to be warmed and are clearly doing so at a restaurant that doesn't typically warm its bread, you shouldn't be surprised that the staff may become distracted and forget to bring it back to you.

[Rachel Perlow]

Never mind.

Edited February 1, 2003 by RPerlow (log)

[menton1]

I feel obliged to add a rebuttal on several issues--

I did not mention the name of the NJ restaurant becuase this topic, under the "General Food Topics" category is read all over the US (and probably overseas) so that the name of the restaurant is seemingly irrelevant;

The wait staff had no idea that I was annoyed about the bottled water pitch, so I could not have been labeled as "trouble";

The real issue here was brought up earlier by one of the respondents-- the place should accommodate the customer-- to warm up bread is certainly within the realm of a reasonable request, and should have been handled graciously, and NOT forgotten about. It is their job not to become distracted.

And lastly, it seems that Fat Guy and myself are the lone warm bread advocates in this crowd. Well, at least I have a partner of stature!!

[gknl]

I can certainly see soft rolls and soft breads being heated. What could it matter? Sure, they taste better because, although they're soft, at least they're not cold. Which is at least something.

I am sujre this paragraph was created by computer It seems to consist of four entirely unconnected sentences, each of which is about as non sequiturious to the previous one as could be imagined Jinnysan, please disclose what you were drinking when you wrote this --- I want some of it

It made perfect sense to me.

What were you drinking when you read it?