Corned Beef At Home: Recipes, Tips, etc.

[richw]

My Father spent his college years working at New York delis during the 60's. The other day he asked me if I could help him locate a corned beef brine recipe. He wants to try some home corning. I'd appreciate it if any one could share their brine recipe. He's looking to create the classic deli corned beef, brine recipe innovation need not apply TIA for your input.

Rich

[Brittany]

Rich

I think the easiest way to go for your first time is a meat processor supply house. They have all ready made up kits of differant brineing solutions. You just add water. I get my bucket with a lid from a bakery, just ask for a frosting bucket some times they will give them to you or charge a dallor or two.

I corn my own beef and it is far better than store bought.

Charlie

[Toliver]

There is a grand thread on eGullet on the "The Great Pastrami/Smoked Meat Experiment, Getting to the bottom of things". Pastrami starts out as corned beef. Melkor posted a corned beef recipe in the discussion.

Who knows...maybe your dad will want to try his hand at pastrami, too.

[budrichard]

First you need to obtain a choice grade brisket in the cryovac pack. If not in the cryovac, the fat will be cut off. Second get two gallon freezer zip lock bags, kosher salt, saltpeter(drugstore), fresh garlic, lots and your spices. Mix salt in your water until an egg floats or you can't dissolve anymore. Put lots of chopped garlic and spices in bag, a 1/4 tea spoon pf salt peter along with brisket and into a larger solid container to contain any leakage. Leave in fridge for 4 weeks or more turning daily. Remove, cook slowly in Guinness. Serve hot or cold.

For our last brisket we used a Wagyu cut from Lobel's because they had a two for one sale. I never had better corned beef. The other brisket will be BBQ'd this June.

Spices are coriander, cardamom, mustard seed, ceylon cinnamin, star anise, fenugreek, bay, and whatever else I like at the time.-Dick

[kitchenetc]

This is an excellent recipe and takes a week or less:

* Exported from MasterCook *

Corned Beef and Cabbage

Recipe By :Cook's March 1997

Serving Size : 8 Preparation Time :4:00

Categories : Beef

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method

-------- ------------ --------------------------------

5 pounds beef brisket, point half -- trimmed

1/2 cup kosher salt

1 tablespoon black peppercorns -- cracked

1 tablespoon ground allspice

1 tablespoon dried thyme

1/2 tablespoon paprika

2 bay leaves -- crumbled

7 pounds assorted vegetables

Mix salt and seasonings in small bowl. Spear brisket about 30 times per side with meat fork. Rub each side evenly with salt mixture; place in 2 gallon Ziploc, forcing out air. Place in flat pan, cover with another flat pan and weight with bricks or heavy cans. Refrigerate 5-7 days, turning once a day.

Bring brisket to a boil with water to cover by an inch in a large kettle, skimming foam. Cover and simmer til tender, about 2 1/2 to 3 hours. Heat oven to 200. Transfer meat to large platter, ladling about 1 cup liquid over to keep moist. Cover with foil and set in oven. Add assorted vegetables (carrots, rutabagas, turnips, new potatoes, boiling onions) to kettle and bring to boil; cover and simmer about 10 minutes. Then add assorted vegetables (green cabbage, parsnips, Brussels sprouts) and cover and simmer about another 10 minutes. Slice up meat and serve together..

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[Shel_B]

Anyone have an "authentic" spice blend for making a NYC Style Kosher corned beef, of the type found at Katz's or the Carnagie Deli and other such NYC institutions?

Shel

[Gifted Gourmet]

spices to make corned beef from Penzeys

brown and yellow mustard seeds, coriander, Jamaican allspice, cracked cassia, dill seed, Turkish bay leaves, Zanzibar cloves, China #1 ginger, Tellicherry peppercorns, star anise, juniper, mace, cardamom, red pepper.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[Shel_B]

spices to make corned beef from Penzeys

brown and yellow mustard seeds, coriander, Jamaican allspice, cracked cassia, dill seed, Turkish bay leaves, Zanzibar cloves, China #1 ginger, Tellicherry peppercorns, star anise, juniper, mace, cardamom, red pepper.

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Yes, I've played with the Penzeys blend, and the results have not been close to a NYC corned beef a la Carnagie deli. Thanks for jumping in.

Shel

[Bueno]

Carnegie, Katz's, etc. have proprietary blends. That's what makes them stand out. If everyone's corned beef tasted the same (or in this case, as good as) Katz's, I'd imagine Katz's would be out of business. That's like asking: does anyone have a recipe for Coca Cola?

[Shel_B]

Carnegie, Katz's, etc. have proprietary blends.  That's what makes them stand out.  If everyone's corned beef tasted the same (or in this case, as good as) Katz's, I'd imagine Katz's would be out of business.  That's like asking: does anyone have a recipe for Coca Cola?

←

Many of the NYC delis have their own blends. My old neighborhood deli in Queens had (and still has) their own blend. However, they all have a certain similarity in the way they taste. Your comment suggests that trying to find that elusive commonality, that looking for something more "Jewish" and NYC instead of some gentile-created, one size fits all blend is a waste of time, and that even asking is folly.

There are also a lot of NYC delis that use a "generic" blend for their corned beef, and it tastes quite a bit different than Penzeys or supermarket-purchased CB that has spice packets enclosed with their plastic-wrapped meat. So, I'll keep looking for a NYC-style spice mixture.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

Shel

Edited August 7, 2007 by Shel_B (log)

[Darren72]

Shel_B, since you've made corned beef with the Penzy's blend, perhaps you can tell us *how* it differs from what you are looking for. That might make it easier for us to help you out.

[Shel_B]

Shel_B, since you've made corned beef with the Penzy's blend, perhaps you can tell us *how* it differs from what you are looking for. That might make it easier for us to help you out.

←

A lot of the spice blends seem to result in something "sweeter" than traditional NYC corned beef, and lack a certain "depth" of flavor. While I can't say for sure, Penzeys seems to have too many ingredients, or maybe the "wrong" proportions of some ingredients, such as cloves. While I know that cloves are used in some NYC recipes, their effect is far more subtle than what I've experienced in some other spice blends. I'm not convinced that ginger or cassia (if that's cinnamon) are traditional. The sense I get is that NYC-style has fewer ingredients in the spice mixture, and that the meat ages for a longer time in the mixture. There may be certain techniques in addition to the ingredients that give the NYC style it's unique character, and I'm looking to see if I can isolate some of those techniques. I've contacted a few people on the east coast to see what they have to say, but have not heard back from any of them yet.

What surprises me is that you can find "copycat" recipes for so many things, but finding a corned beef (or pastrami) recipe that is comparable to the NYC stuff thus far seems to be more difficult. These recipes and techniques seem to be closely guarded, which is understandable but quite frustrating. I've tracked down a guy in Atlanta who is supposed to serve up a very good NYC style corned beef, but, according to sources, it took him years to come up with a succesful rercipe and technique.

This morning I found out about a place in San Francisco that's supposed to have cracked the code, althoughit was mentioned in the same breath as another place that realloffers a poor imitation of NYC style pastrame (not tried their corned beef). Joyce Goldstein has some connection to this San Francisco place, so I'll try to contact her.

Thanks for jumping in.

Shel

[Preserver]

have no experience in corned beef making at all but i do have the brisket brining in the fridge right now. i am using the alton brown recipe and will go from there. ohh i need to post pics too hehehe Shel B which of the place in SF are you talking bout..?? Dave's..? or is it some other smaller deli's..??

[Darren72]

Thanks for the info on the taste differences. I learned a lot. Here's a group you may want to contact, if you haven't already:

http://www.nycbsa.com/

[Shel_B]

Thanks for the info on the taste differences. I learned a lot. Here's a group you may want to contact, if you haven't already:

http://www.nycbsa.com/

←

LOL - they've been on the list for a couple of days. Thanks!

Shel

[Shel_B]

have no experience in corned beef making at all but i do have the brisket brining in the fridge right now. i am using the alton brown recipe and will go from there. ohh i need to post pics too hehehe   Shel B which of the place in SF are you talking bout..??  Dave's..? or is it some other smaller deli's..??

←

AB has the right idea about brining and the time the beef needs to "age." I don't recall if he has a specific spice recipe though. I'll have to double check. Thanks!

I'n not familiar with Dave's. These are the two I was referring to:

http://www.themonthly.com/food-02-07.html

I've been to Saul's and, as of the last time I was there, I was not impressed. However, that was more than a year ago and perhaps things have changed, so I plan to check them out again.

Shel

Edited August 7, 2007 by Shel_B (log)

[Preserver]

well here is the recipe.. i believe most if not all of his recipes are very basic... will have to play with it from there on.. but here it is...

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/re...6_36271,00.html

[budrichard]

Fresh garlic and lots of it, coriander(lots) ceylon cassia stick, bay leaves, brown mustard seed, little clove, star anise, fenugreek and cardamon. All subject to my whim of the day. Kosher salt with a little saltpeter to preserve the color. Use a choice cut of brisket at the minimum( a Waygu works great) and put all into a two gal freezer zip lock bag in a Pyrex pan for 2-3 weeks in the fridge. That's about as close as i have come but more importantly, I like it and everyone that has had this mixture likes it also.-Dick

[jaynesb]

There might be some recipes in NYC or Deli Cookbooks:

I used to have this cookbook but gave it away. Almost all of the recipes were mostly meat and soups and from Jewish Delis (Both Kosher and non-Kosher) Not terribly useful for a vegetarian like me and I wasn't ambitious enough for many of the meat recipes.

America's Great Delis: Recipes And Traditions from Coast to Coast (Hardcover)

by Sheryll Bellman

Sheryll Bellman page about the book

jayne

[Bueno]

I suppose that for me anyhow, Katz's is in a league of its own. It doesn't taste like anything else in NYC. Same for Carnegie, though I prefer Katz's. I meant to infer that I don't think they really conform to anything typical. But if what you're looking for is a more solid and straightforward rub that tastes less muddled and more refined, than my recipe might be what you're after. I've tried to recreate Katz's flavour and its pretty close, but as I suggest above, still distinguishable from Katz's. Personally, I don't believe ginger belongs, and I feel the absence of allspice generally lends to a more "NYC" style as well.

5 tablespoons kosher salt

4 tablespoons paprika

3 tablespoons coriander seeds

3 tablespoons brown sugar

2 tablespoons black peppercorns

2 tablespoons yellow mustard seeds

1 tablespoon white peppercorns

8 cloves garlic, minced

Combine coriander seeds, peppercorns and mustard seeds in a spice grinder. Grind coarsely. Add in remaining ingredients and mix well. Rub is now ready to use. It may be stored refrigerated in an airtight container.

One of the key points, I've found, is to REALLY rub the mixture into the meat. I mean really go hardcore. I find this contributes more than anything to getting the flavour I'm pretty sure you're after.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Bueno (log)

[Shel_B]

I suppose that for me anyhow, Katz's is in a league of its own.  It doesn't taste like anything else in NYC.  Same for Carnegie, though I prefer Katz's.  I meant to infer that I don't think they really conform to anything typical.  But if what you're looking for is a more solid and straightforward rub that tastes less muddled and more refined, than my recipe might be what you're after.  I've tried to recreate Katz's flavour and its pretty close, but as I suggest above, still distinguishable from Katz's.  Personally, I don't believe ginger belongs, and I feel the absence of allspice generally lends to a more "NYC" style as well.

5 tablespoons kosher salt

4 tablespoons paprika

3 tablespoons coriander seeds

3 tablespoons brown sugar

2 tablespoons black peppercorns

2 tablespoons yellow mustard seeds

1 tablespoon white peppercorns

8 cloves garlic, minced

Combine coriander seeds, peppercorns and mustard seeds in a spice grinder. Grind coarsely. Add in remaining ingredients and mix well. Rub is now ready to use. It may be stored refrigerated in an airtight container.

One of the key points, I've found, is to REALLY rub the mixture into the meat.  I mean really go hardcore.  I find this contributes more than anything to getting the flavour I'm pretty sure you're after.

←

Thanks - that's a lot closer to what I'd have thought a NYC type spice mixture would be. IAC, I agree wholeheartedly about ginger and allspice, just as I felt that juniper berries and a few other ingredients were "too much."

Bueno, Bueno ..

Shel

[Shel_B]

There might be some recipes in NYC or Deli Cookbooks:

I used to have this cookbook but gave it away. Almost all of the recipes were mostly meat and soups and from Jewish Delis (Both Kosher and non-Kosher) Not terribly useful for a vegetarian like me and I wasn't ambitious enough for many of the meat recipes.

America's Great Delis: Recipes And Traditions from Coast to Coast (Hardcover)

by Sheryll Bellman

Sheryll Bellman page about the book

jayne

←

Thanks - following up, that link ultimately led me to some other books with which I was unfamiliar.

Kind regards,

Shel

[Shel_B]

Fresh garlic and lots of it, coriander(lots) ceylon cassia stick, bay leaves, brown mustard seed, little clove, star anise, fenugreek and cardamon. All subject to my whim of the day. Kosher salt with a little saltpeter to preserve the color. Use a choice cut of brisket at the minimum( a Waygu works great) and put all into a two gal freezer zip lock bag in a Pyrex pan for 2-3 weeks in the fridge. That's about as close as i have come but more importantly, I like it and everyone that has had this mixture likes it also.-Dick

←

Thanks for jumping in and for your suggestion.

Kind regards,

Shel

[Shel_B]

well here is the recipe.. i believe most if not all of his recipes are very basic... will have to play with it from there on.. but here it is...

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/re...6_36271,00.html

←

Thanks!

Shel

[SundaySous]

Bourbon marinade. I have absolutely no basis for this assumption I just like the look on people faces when I recommend it.

Seriously though years ago it would drive us nuts trying to figure out how this beef stand made their Italian Beef. After they sold out to condo development there in the Chicago Tribune is the recipe...Bourbon marinade.