Anyone understand the science of caramel?

[martin0642]

Hi all - I've been trying to make a vegan caramel for confections...specifically the oozy kind of caramel you get inside chocolates..bit stiffer than sauce basically.

 

The issue with a vegan version is obviously the lack of fats in vegan dairy alternatives so I've been playing with some options. The best one so far has been to make a dry caramel then deglaze with coconut milk. I've tried a couple of options for adding more fat:

 

Creamed coconut (too strong a coconut flavour and it had bits in it..urgh)

Coconut oil (best one so far)

Pure dairy free sunflower spread (utterly weird taste - threw it ou)

 

The weird thing i'm finding is the texture....it's like a pva glue! When I try and pipe it into moulded chocolate shells, it sticks to the mould but doesn't separate from the rest of the caramel..so I end up pulling a lot of shells out of the mould (or hold them in and then try to get it to separate one handed). I don't have this issue with dairy based caramels. It is proving *really* difficult to get the right consistency!

 

The recipe is:

 

190g Sugar - caramelised

110 g coconut milk - heated to about 70c then added slowly to caramel over a low heat

30g coconut oil - at room temp - added after milk

 

Could this be due to the proteins in the coconut milk? Or..........something else I haven't even considered?

[teonzo]

I'm not an expert on caramels (far from it, I much prefer ganaches in my pralines), but I would reason this way.

Butter is composed by about 82% fats and 18% liquids (mostly water). So when you add butter to the caramel (cooked sugar, not the final product) you add fats and water (plus few % points of other stuff). Then you need to cook the mixture to a desired temperature, this is to reach a fixed % of water (different boiling temperatures, different water %, they are pre-determined in the sense that the same mixture boiling at X temperature always have Y% water).

So you can "deconstruct" butter in oil + water. I would use a neutral oil to not add flavours, like rice oil, corn oil, peanut oil (they are pretty easy to find in Italy, don't know elsewhere). And I would add a bit of lecithin to help the emulsion. But I would proceed differently than with the butter caramels. With butter caramels you add the butter to the boiling caramel. In this case I would add boiling water, then when the temperature dropped I would add the vegetable oil (the less you heat vegetable oils the better) and lecithin. Then I would proceed as always: cook to the desired temperature, let it cool, then deposit in moulds. Since you add only water to the cooked sugar, it means lower mass, which means more evaporated water. So I would raise the amount of water. This does not change the recipe balance, since when you cook the caramel to the desired temperature you will evaporate all the extra water.

 

My hypothetic next attempt would be:

- pick-up my go-to caramel recipe (dairy version), keep all the amounts except butter, then substitute butter with 0.8x vegetable oil, 0.5x water, 0.005x lecithin, example if your recipe calls for 160 g butter then I would use 160 x 0.8 = 128 g vegetable oil, 160 x 0.5 = 80 g water, 160 x 0.005 = 0.8 g lecithin;

- cook the sugar as usual to get the caramel, in the meantime heat the water to boiling point;

- deglaze the caramel with boiling water (being careful as usual, of course);

- add vegetable oil and lecithin, mix with stick blender;

- cook to desired temperature;

- cool to working temperature;

- deposit in moulds.

 

I don't know how much far off the water amount is. It can be too few (which means when you cook the mixture to desired temperature then it will start boiling at a higher temperature), or too much (it will take a lot of time to evaporate excess water and reach desired temperature). You can only know this after your first attempt, write down the results and change accordingly.

Another problem can be texture. Since butter fats cristallize at room temperature and vegetable oils not, then this vegan caramel most probably will be more fluid than the dairy version. You can counterbalance this by raising the desired temperature, or lowering the amount of vegetable oil.

 

I suppose that your "glue" problem is given by the fact that coconut milk has starches in it.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[pastrygirl]

5 hours ago, martin0642 said:

 

The weird thing i'm finding is the texture....it's like a pva glue! When I try and pipe it into moulded chocolate shells, it sticks to the mould but doesn't separate from the rest of the caramel..so I end up pulling a lot of shells out of the mould (or hold them in and then try to get it to separate one handed). I don't have this issue with dairy based caramels. It is proving *really* difficult to get the right consistency!

 

The recipe is:

 

190g Sugar - caramelised

110 g coconut milk - heated to about 70c then added slowly to caramel over a low heat

30g coconut oil - at room temp - added after milk

 

Could this be due to the proteins in the coconut milk? Or..........something else I haven't even considered?

 

Sounds too thick, try a little more liquid.  Also consider cocoa butter as a way to add fat without coconut flavor.

[martin0642]

9 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Sounds too thick, try a little more liquid.  Also consider cocoa butter as a way to add fat without coconut flavor.

 

 

I like the cocoa butter idea (and thank you Teo for mentioning the starches..hadn't thought of that!)....however the problem is not that it's too thick...it can be a pourable consistency but still act lik glue. It's the weirdest thing. One batch I made poured like a thin cream - but with a glue like texture - I think Teo may have a point about the starches so maybe I should try an alternative...hmmm...hemp milk maybe (trying to avoid soy but everything else has almost zero fat)

 

Guess I should keep experimenting! I did make it work one time - then messed up the depositing.

[chromedome]

Have you tried separating and using just the coconut "cream" (not creamed coconut) as opposed to whole coconut milk? I've used it in lieu of dairy cream for a vegan ice cream (worked pretty well) and suspect it might work in a pourable caramel. 

[martin0642]

16 minutes ago, chromedome said:

Have you tried separating and using just the coconut "cream" (not creamed coconut) as opposed to whole coconut milk? I've used it in lieu of dairy cream for a vegan ice cream (worked pretty well) and suspect it might work in a pourable caramel. 

 

 

I was using coconut milk and creamed coconut together to start with and that wasn't great - so I switched to coconut milk on it's own. Do you mean letting it separate out and skimming it? The milk I have doesn't seem to do that really! I'm wondering if Teo was right about the starches and given the temperatures i'm working at it would make sense they made things gloopy. Hmmm.

[chromedome]

If you open the can without shaking it, there can be anything from 1/2 cm to 1/2 can of "cream" separated on top. You just spoon that off, and use the rest for another purpose. You'll find that higher-quality brands have more cream, so buy one each of the brands available to you in your location and compare them. 

 

It might be possible to buy cans of just coconut cream. I've done that in the past, but found the availability to be spotty. In the UK, I'd suggest trying Caribbean or Indian/Asian groceries. 

[pastrygirl]

17 hours ago, martin0642 said:

 

 

I like the cocoa butter idea (and thank you Teo for mentioning the starches..hadn't thought of that!)....however the problem is not that it's too thick...it can be a pourable consistency but still act lik glue. It's the weirdest thing. One batch I made poured like a thin cream - but with a glue like texture - I think Teo may have a point about the starches so maybe I should try an alternative...hmmm...hemp milk maybe (trying to avoid soy but everything else has almost zero fat)

 

Guess I should keep experimenting! I did make it work one time - then messed up the depositing.

 

Can you find coconut milk without added starches or thickeners?  Coconut milk heated on its own doesn't thicken into ropy gloop so I'm not so sure about purported starches, but so many things have added thickeners these days that who knows. 

 

How about some portion of liquid sugar to decrease stickiness?  I'm thinking in the manner that glucose helps the texture of pate de fruits and other confections.  Golden syrup is what I would use - I do use it in my chewy caramels that are cut and wrapped. 

 

Also, alcohol!  As part of your liquid, that is.

 

 

[martin0642]

On 10/11/2016 at 7:07 PM, pastrygirl said:

 

Can you find coconut milk without added starches or thickeners?  Coconut milk heated on its own doesn't thicken into ropy gloop so I'm not so sure about purported starches, but so many things have added thickeners these days that who knows. 

 

How about some portion of liquid sugar to decrease stickiness?  I'm thinking in the manner that glucose helps the texture of pate de fruits and other confections.  Golden syrup is what I would use - I do use it in my chewy caramels that are cut and wrapped. 

 

Also, alcohol!  As part of your liquid, that is.

 

 

You know I hadn't thought of the additives - DOH!!

 

Just checked and there is a "stabiliser" - E412.........Guar Gum. Guess that solves the mystery then! I'll see what I can find without additives...generally that's what I look for but guess I overlooked it this time. Goddamit!

 

Thank you

[martin0642]

So.....just thought I'd report back on *finally* having a success with vegan caramel! Many thanks to all of you for your contributions..they were a HUGE help.

Final working recipe:

 

190g Sugar (from sugar beet...not cane....cane sugar is refined with bone char and therefore not vegan)

97g Coconut Milk (plain full coconut milk, not just the cream. Finally found one with no additives at all)

40g Cocoa Butter

 

No need to add salt as the coconut milk adds some saltiness anyway. 

 

I found it's REALLY important to watch the coconut milk as both heating that and then adding it to the dry caramel releases a lot of water and you can get a very thick caramel much more easily than with a dairy version...which is of course a nightmare to pipe into shells.

 

However - it worked!! Yay!

 

Also in the same week i cracked making my own vegan white chocolate using coconut milk powder (in a proper grinder I hasten to add....simply combining the ingredients doesn't work). It obviously has a coconut taste but not overpowering and way WAY better than commercially available vegan white chocolate - which is just nasty stuff I find.

[chromedome]

Congrats on "cracking the code." 

 

I'm sure your customers will be thrilled.

[pastrygirl]

13 hours ago, martin0642 said:

Also in the same week i cracked making my own vegan white chocolate using coconut milk powder (in a proper grinder I hasten to add....simply combining the ingredients doesn't work). It obviously has a coconut taste but not overpowering and way WAY better than commercially available vegan white chocolate - which is just nasty stuff I find.

 

Nice!  What do you use for coconut milk powder?  I get the little 50-60 gram packets from the Asian supermarket but they all have a dairy ingredient - casein or something, I don't recall. 

[martin0642]

8 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Nice!  What do you use for coconut milk powder?  I get the little 50-60 gram packets from the Asian supermarket but they all have a dairy ingredient - casein or something, I don't recall. 

 

I use a vegan coconut milk powder from a company called Real Food source - it contains: coconut milk, maltodextrin (from corn), tapioca syrup (no idea why) and cyclodextrin (dietary fibre). Works beautifully

[CacaoC]

On 2016-12-01 at 9:02 AM, martin0642 said:

 

190g Sugar (from sugar beet...not cane....cane sugar is refined with bone char and therefore not vegan)

 

97g Coconut Milk (plain full coconut milk, not just the cream. Finally found one with no additives at all)

40g Cocoa Butter

 

 

Would that be possible to know each steps that you used to make that vegan caramel recipe?  I'm also curious what brand of coconut milk that you used? (I haven't been able to find one without added additives, even the organic ones have guar gum added).

 

I would love to try this for a dairy intolerant friend.

[martin0642]

19 hours ago, CacaoC said:

 

Would that be possible to know each steps that you used to make that vegan caramel recipe?  I'm also curious what brand of coconut milk that you used? (I haven't been able to find one without added additives, even the organic ones have guar gum added).

 

I would love to try this for a dairy intolerant friend.

 

 

Absolutely - happy to help....it drove me mad getting a vegan caramel to work!

 

1. Add a few drops of lemon juice to the sugar and stir it in with a fork to distribute it.

2. Get a large, heavy bottom pan on the hob and start heating it - when hot (but not stupidly hot!) add a third of the sugar. Shake it around and stir it on med-high heat until it's almost all melted. Continue adding sugar (I do it in thirds) and stirring until it's all melted and a nice dark amber colour.

3. Meanwhile - heat the coconut milk - you'll need to stir that as well because it'll be lumpy to start...that will change as it heats. Do not boil it (you'll lose too much water). Just heat until bubbles start to appear. Try and time it to hit that point at the same time as the sugar is done (you can always take the sugar off the heat briefly if need be)

4. Take the sugar off the heat (or turn to very low heat if you have gas) and deglaze: pour in the heated coconut milk *slowly* - stirring vigorously. If you start to get lumps...slow down pouring and turn up the heat a little to melt them out.

5. Still stirring and still on low heat...add in the cocoa butter in small pieces.

6 Take off the heat - stir some more - pour into a bowl and leave to cool (I use cling film/saran wrap over the bowl to help prevent a skin forming)

 

Points to note:

 

- Some recipes say you must NOT stir. They're wrong. A wet caramel should not be stirred as it may cause crystallisation. This is a dry caramel and should be stirred to prevent burning and lumps. 

- Use white sugar, if you want it vegan use beet sugar or any that is not refined with bone char..must be white sugar though. Brown sugars and some unrefined sugars interfere with caramelisation.

- With this small an amount of sugar you can probably put it all in at once in a big enough pan...I find it easier doing it in thirds.

 

The coconut milk I used was Biona organic - 100% coconut milk...no additives (and about 50% water).

 

If you ind it's too stiff afterwards you can use other milks or water to thin it out if need be. If you're going to pipe it into moulded chocolate shells - be patient...it's not *quite* as user friendly as dairy caramel...but it's workable.

 

Hope that helps!

[CacaoC]

 

 

Thank you martin0642 for taking the time to write down all the steps, I can't wait to try this on my next day off.

 

My next challenge is to find a 100% coconut milk that doesn't have any added additives. Those organic brands are the best ones that I could find ( I'm in Canada), but unfortunately have guar gum added:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After doing a small research on the Biona Organic brand (which I've never seen before around here), I found it on Amazon.ca for 3.67$ per can with 20.00$ shipping fees!   It seem that the Aroy-D coconut milk brand that I've seen before doesn't have anything added, I hope to be able to find it in larger supermarkets.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by CacaoC
edited pictures because not yet familar with the new forum format... (log)

[Anna N]

 

No additives in the Aroy-D. 

[martin0642]

My pleasure CacaoC  

 

As noted above (somewhere!) the guar gum or other stabilisers made it impossible to work with....it stuck to both the mould and the piping bag and refused to let go of either. I had to use scissors to try and get it in the mould...wasn't worth the effort!

 

Otherwise - that Aron-d looks perfect. You may want to use a little more cocoa butter as the milk I used was only 50% water...and the fats are important. It's a 'cleaner' tasting caramel when it's done because there's no dairy fats or proteins. But it works well enough and doesn't really taste of coconut. Do NOT add salt..the coconut adds a slightly salty taste anyway. 

 

Happy cooking!