The Bread Topic (2016–)

[Deephaven]

I know you asked Ann, but figure if you all want to rip my method apart feel free.  For the outdoor Ooni cooked on full throttle I use:

 

450g 73F/22.5C water - 67% hydration

665g 00 Flour

18 grams salt (2.8%)

1/8 tsp Yeast - ie, hardly any

 

I mix it all until combined.  Two 30min rest with stretch and folds, then a 12 hour rest at room temp, then divide into 4 balls and put in the fridge for 3 days.  3 hours before use I pull them out.

 

That isn't terrible different from Ann's dough or method, but even less fold steps and perhaps less time warming.  The time to pull them out so they are handle-able and take the stretch is critical.  My house is around the water temp year round +/- a deg or so which is why I chose that.  In side by side tests the 00 flour has better leopard coloration where the normal flour ended up with larger darkened areas.

 

By no means am I a pizza guru though.  I've only had the Ooni for a year, but try to scientifically understand things for repeatability when I get a new tool.

 

 

[Deephaven]

Contemplating my recipe and the baguettes, I realize I could probably just make any leftover pizza dough into a bread as well.  Thanks again Ann for the direction and confidence!

[PatrickT]

3 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

I know you asked Ann, but figure if you all want to rip my method apart feel free.  For the outdoor Ooni cooked on full throttle I use:

 

450g 73F/22.5C water - 67% hydration

665g 00 Flour

18 grams salt (2.8%)

1/8 tsp Yeast - ie, hardly any

 

I mix it all until combined.  Two 30min rest with stretch and folds, then a 12 hour rest at room temp, then divide into 4 balls and put in the fridge for 3 days.  3 hours before use I pull them out.

 

That isn't terrible different from Ann's dough or method, but even less fold steps and perhaps less time warming.  The time to pull them out so they are handle-able and take the stretch is critical.  My house is around the water temp year round +/- a deg or so which is why I chose that.  In side by side tests the 00 flour has better leopard coloration where the normal flour ended up with larger darkened areas.

 

By no means am I a pizza guru though.  I've only had the Ooni for a year, but try to scientifically understand things for repeatability when I get a new tool.

 

 

Appreciate you sharing - thanks! I’m just starting the pizza journey so have a lot to learn and experiment with. 

[Deephaven]

Getting the dough to rest enough so you can shape it without it being so elastic it won't hold is really the key.  Can't say that I like this guy, but at 4:10 here he shows how to only press out the gas on the inside and then press/pull the dough into a circle.  If you get your dough to this consistency based on warming time and stretch it similar to this it makes almost a bigger difference than what else you do with the dough.

Again, not backing the guy who is doing it, but was the easiest stretch method I've seen video wise and I really wish I would have seen that when I started pizza.

 

If doing new york style pizzas I hold and stretch the dough off the table.  Here this link calls that the "steering wheel". Again I just did a quick search and have never seen this guy, but the steering wheel stretch is useful if the dough wasn't quite ready and the method above fails or you are doing larger new york style pizza and want to toss the dough as well.

 

 

 

[Ann_T]

1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

Perfection.  I love a thin crust but with a nice puffy rim.  Just like yours. 

[Ann_T]

Pizza tonight.

 

Started a 500g batch of dough early this morning and left it out on the counter all day.

Was ready to use by the time I got home from work just before 5:30.

Divided into two pieces, one at 500g for Matt who baked a 17" pizza on a stone in a 550°F oven.

The smaller piece about 350g was a Margherita pizza for Moe and I baked in the OONI.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Ann_T (log)

[PatrickT]

Trevor Wilson’s Champlain Sourdough - a mix of bread flour and a 2:1 ratio of spelt to rye. Delicious flavor!

 

 

[Ann_T]

@PatrickT, another perfect bake.  I love the seeding on your loaves.

 

Haven't baked much recently.  Been using up the bread in the freezer.

 

But baked early this morning. 

Started a levain with just a little pinch of yeast yesterday morning and made the dough last night.

Left out of the counter until 4:00 AM this morning.

Baked 6 baguettes.

[PatrickT]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:43 AM, Ann_T said:

@PatrickT, another perfect bake.  I love the seeding on your loaves.

 

Thank you @Ann_T!

 

Your baguettes are perfection, as always. 😍

 

My recent bakes (pictured below) include a sourdough version of Bernard Clayton's Heidelberg Rye, a Dill Pickle Sourdough (inspired by a Dill Pickle Pizza we had at the Minnesota State Fair - also pictured - which was outrageously good!), and a Buckwheat Sourdough with molasses and golden raisins. I must say that buckwheat has a completely unique flavor that I really love.

[PatrickT]

@Ann_T - Wondering if you have ever tried the Pate Fermentee method for your bread making? Here is a video from Chainbaker that demonstrates the concept, with some additional explanation here.

[Ann_T]

10 hours ago, PatrickT said:

@Ann_T - Wondering if you have ever tried the Pate Fermentee method for your bread making? Here is a video from Chainbaker that demonstrates the concept, with some additional explanation here.

I have in the past saved a piece of dough to add to my next batch.

But I haven't done it on a regular basis.   But after watching that video I like the idea of trying it again.

Thanks for sharing that. 

[PatrickT]

28 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

But after watching that video I like the idea of trying it again.

Great! I’ll be curious to see your results and how it works for you. When I watched it, I immediately thought of you. 😃

[MaryIsobel]

I make this recipe regularly in the fall and winter. It's the first recipe I'd seen using "old dough."

There is a lot to wade though to get to the recipe but I am too lazy to type it out.

https://www.farmgirlfare.com/2006/11/oatmeal-toasting-bread-baking.html

 

 

[PatrickT]

21 minutes ago, MaryIsobel said:

I make this recipe regularly in the fall and winter. It's the first recipe I'd seen using "old dough."

There is a lot to wade though to get to the recipe but I am too lazy to type it out.

https://www.farmgirlfare.com/2006/11/oatmeal-toasting-bread-baking.html

 

 

That looks fantastic!! Thanks for sharing this. Definitely going to try that one. 😍

[MaryIsobel]

37 minutes ago, PatrickT said:

That looks fantastic!! Thanks for sharing this. Definitely going to try that one. 😍

My pleasure - it makes the most amazing toast!

 

[Ann_T]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:31 AM, PatrickT said:

@Ann_T - Wondering if you have ever tried the Pate Fermentee method for your bread making? Here is a video from Chainbaker that demonstrates the concept, with some additional explanation here.

I started a levain yesterday and it went into the fridge.  Taken out this morning and added to a 1000g batch of dough.    I`m going to pinch off a piece of this batch  and start using

the Pate Fermentee method going forward.   

 

[PatrickT]

21 hours ago, Ann_T said:

I`m going to pinch off a piece of this batch  and start using

the Pate Fermentee method going forward.

 

I'll be eager to hear your thoughts about it and see your results!

[Ann_T]

First bread made with a Pate Fermentee.   

 

The two rounds were baked in Dutch ovens and the Batard in the spun iron Cloche.   

There was a fourth piece of dough that I saved for Matt to make one of his pizzas. 

 

I have a second batch in the fridge and another Pate Fermentee ready to

go for another batch of dough. 

 

Edited to add crumb:  

Edited September 25, 2023 by Ann_T (log)

[PatrickT]

29 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

First bread made with a Pate Fermentee.   

 

The two rounds were baked in Dutch ovens and the Batard in the spun iron Cloche.   

There was a fourth piece of dough that I saved for Matt to make one of his pizzas. 

 

I have a second batch in the fridge and another Pate Fermentee ready to

go for another batch of dough. 

 

WOW. Well that certainly worked well! 😂 I'm going to try to remember to do this for my next bake.

 

To clarify, you didn't add any other leavening agent for these loaves - just the Pate Fermentee?

[Ann_T]

8 minutes ago, PatrickT said:

 

WOW. Well that certainly worked well! 😂 I'm going to try to remember to do this for my next bake.

 

To clarify, you didn't add any other leavening agent for these loaves - just the Pate Fermentee?

I added a gram of yeast to the 1000g batch. 

 

In that video you linked to, he actually used a lot of yeast in a very small batch of dough.  I think it was 3g in just 250g of flour. That would be the equivalent

to 12g in 1000 grams of flour. 

I typically use 1 to 2 grams in 1000g of flour.  

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Ann_T (log)

[Ann_T]

 

Another batch started with a pate fermentee and left in the fridge for a 48 hour cold fermentation.

Taken out around 4:00 AM this morning.

Because the dough had already risen in the fridge and was at the top of the 6L container, I divided and shaped right out of the fridge.

Left to proof and baked mini baguette sandwich size buns.

 

 Edited to add: 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Ann_T (log)

[PatrickT]

23 hours ago, Ann_T said:

 

Another batch started with a pate fermentee and left in the fridge for a 48 hour cold fermentation.

Taken out around 4:00 AM this morning.

Because the dough had already risen in the fridge and was at the top of the 6L container, I divided and shaped right out of the fridge.

Left to proof and baked mini baguette sandwich size buns.

 

Beautiful loaves @Ann_T! 😍 I hope to try Pate Fermentee this week or next. 
 

This morning’s loaf - Blueberry Lemon sourdough - baked for friends. Heavenly aroma! 
 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by PatrickT
Added crumb shots (log)

[Ann_T]

22 hours ago, PatrickT said:

 

This morning’s loaf - Blueberry Lemon sourdough - baked for friends. Heavenly aroma! 

Matt saw your picture and really likes the idea of your blueberry lemon sourdough loaf.

I baked another batch of mini baguette/sandwich size this morning. The dough had been in the fridge since

Tuesday morning.    It was also started with a pate fermentee and I had reduced the additional salt in half of what I normally use for a 1000g batch. 

 

The dough rose in the fridge and was hitting the top of the lid of a 6L container.  I was thinking of taking it out last night and

leaving it on the counter until 3 or 4 this morning.  But that wasn't going to work.  So I just pushed it down a little in the container and 

left it until just after 3:30 this morning.  Divided and preshaped at 4:00 and finished shaping before 4:30.  Bread was out of the oven by 6:30AM.

 

I'm thinking that the pate fermentee is what is making the dough more active.  So next batch, I might either skip the addition of yeast to the new

batch or just give it a pinch and see what happens. 

[PatrickT]

6 minutes ago, Ann_T said:

Matt saw your picture and really likes the idea of your blueberry lemon sourdough loaf.

I baked another batch of mini baguette/sandwich size this morning. The dough had been in the fridge since

Tuesday morning.    It was also started with a pate fermentee and I had reduced the additional salt in half of what I normally use for a 1000g batch. 

 

The dough rose in the fridge and was hitting the top of the lid of a 6L container.  I was thinking of taking it out last night and

leaving it on the counter until 3 or 4 this morning.  But that wasn't going to work.  So I just pushed it down a little in the container and 

left it until just after 3:30 this morning.  Divided and preshaped at 4:00 and finished shaping before 4:30.  Bread was out of the oven by 6:30AM.

 

I'm thinking that the pate fermentee is what is making the dough more active.  So next batch, I might either skip the addition of yeast to the new

batch or just give it a pinch and see what happens. 

Thank you! The couple I made it for said it’s their favorite loaf I’ve made to date. Happy to post the recipe if you’d like to give it a whirl sometime for Matt. 
 

Your loaves are incredible!! That pate fermentee process seems to be working ideally for you. Very exciting - thanks for sharing and please keep updating us with your experiences! 😃🙏

[ElsieD]

On 9/21/2023 at 8:31 AM, PatrickT said:

@Ann_T - Wondering if you have ever tried the Pate Fermentee method for your bread making? Here is a video from Chainbaker that demonstrates the concept, with some additional explanation here.

 

I watched the video and I'd like to try it.  But.....say I've made up a batch of dough and I've cut off 20% and it's been kept in the fridge.  Can this 20% be used to make a dough with a higher hydration?  If yes, after making the that dough, would I cut off 20% of the higher hydration dough and the next time I want to make a lower hydration dough, can I use the saved 20% as is or do I have to adjust for the extra water in the 20%?  I hope this makes sense.   I also assume that of the original 80%, I can leave it in the fridge for a few days if I wanted to make a fresh sandwich bun every day?  I hope this makes sense.