Anyone use Marshmallow in Molded Chocolates?

[pastrygirl]

I realized that Melissa's lack of concern about egg in marshmallow or ganache may be related to her being from Colombia.  Many people outside of the US leave their eggs out at room temp and don't freak out about them like Americans do.

[keychris]

Depends how fresh the eggs are as to how long you would leave them out for, I guess!

[Lisa Shock]

Well, in other countries, they don't wash the bloom off, so their eggs, unlike US supermarket eggs, are virtually impermeable to bacteria.

[Bentley]

Dredging up and older topic...I found this picture and it is similar to what I am trying to accomplish.  This one is particularly interesting because it appears the marshmallow layer is leveled out, as if it was fairly fluid when put in the shell.  

 

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, Bentley said:

Dredging up and older topic...I found this picture and it is similar to what I am trying to accomplish.  This one is particularly interesting because it appears the marshmallow layer is leveled out, as if it was fairly fluid when put in the shell.  

 

 

 

We made several molded marshmallow pieces like these at the Callebaut Academy course I was group leader for  last week in Belgium - piped before they set up. If there will be a delay in piping you just keep mixing in the Kitchen-Aid. You push the cookie down on the piped marshmallow.

 

 

[Jim D.]

@Bentley Quite a coincidence that you posted about marshmallow. Not long ago I did a lot of posting about trying to get pipeable marshmallow, and just today I did more experimenting. In my attempts I used various Greweling recipes and those from others as well. I tried Greweling's pipeable recipe but quickly learned that he intends it to be piped onto parchment when it still flows easily (thus still hot). I experimented with his recipe with (dried) egg whites and another with no eggs. The one time I got it to work was when I used his regular marshmallow recipe but cooked it a little less and let it cool, beating it from time to time to keep it from setting. I was able to pipe it and it was tantalizingly good (tantalizing because it kept me trying). That was an experiment. The next time I did it (for actual production chocolates to be sold) it was a mess--sticky goo all over the kitchen, marshmallow trails all over the mold when I piped. I vowed not to try that again--you have to have a dependable, repeatable process if you don't want to drive yourself crazy. But my vows are (it seems) flexible because today I tried again. This time I used the strawberry marshmallow recipe from Recipe Gullet, and cooked it the full time, poured it out into a slab, and am waiting for it to firm up enough to cut. This time I plan to use a cookie cutter (I found an Ateco set that has rounds small enough to fit into a cavity) and see if the firmed-up marshmallow will work as the bottom layer of a bonbon.

 

I just saw that Kerry posted with recent success stories. She says they used the method I mentioned of keeping the mixture pipeable while it cools. Obviously they had more success with piping than I did. @Kerry Beal, did you see the piping process? If so, how did it go? That is the real issue, in my opinion.

 

Bentley, it's interesting in the image you posted above that the end product is gelatin-free. Even if egg whites were used, I have not seen a recipe that doesn't use gelatin. Maybe a gelatin substitute.

[Kerry Beal]

The piping went well. The only exception was a lot of the pipers were inexperienced and put too much marshmallow in the moulds.

 

it was egg white and gelatin I believe.

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Jim D.]

5 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

The piping went well. The only exception was a lot of the pipers were inexperienced and put too much marshmallow in the moulds.

 

it was egg white and gelatin I believe.

 

 

 

Did you see the making of the marshmallow? I'm wondering to what state it was cooked--less than usual or until it was stiff?

[Kerry Beal]

11 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

Did you see the making of the marshmallow? I'm wondering to what state it was cooked--less than usual or until it was stiff?

I did see - will find details when rug rat in bed

[Kerry Beal]

Ok - so recipe 1 involved cooking sugar, fruit purees and glucose to 114º C. Added to beaten egg whites. Cool while beating to 40º C then add melted gelatin mass. 

 

Recipe 2 cooked water, sugar and glucose to 112º C, poured over beaten egg whites, cooled to 40º C while beating, add gelatin mass, color and flavor. 

 

Recipe 3 cooks water, invert sugar and sugar to 110º C, pour over gelatin and more invert sugar, and heat until a nice meringue. At 40º C add cocoa mass and pipe into molds immediately. 

[Bentley]

Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking about this.  I found a recipe in the magazine Journal Chocolat that had an egg-free marshmallow that was piped into drops on a tray then placed into the chocolate shell when fully set.  After having the recipe translated from Swedish, I tried it this weekend.  The recipe said to let the marshmallow cool to 30-35C before spooning into a piping bag.  It was a far too set-up and sticky to work with before it even got below 40C. It was a sticky mess and I could barely pipe it, much less get anything close to consistent sized drops.   I ended up just piping long ropes then cutting it into pieces small enough to  place in the shell.  Even that was difficult because it was tough to get consistent sized pieces.  Some ended up being too big for the shell, some really small.  What I really want is to find out how to pipe the marshmallow into the shell like the pic above where the layer is level enough to pipe a ganache over it or to place a layer of sable or similar over it.  I will continue to report my findings. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Bentley (log)

[Bentley]

7 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

The piping went well. The only exception was a lot of the pipers were inexperienced and put too much marshmallow in the moulds.

 

it was egg white and gelatin I believe.

 

 

That's the hard part- you have to pipe in the exact amount of marshmallow so that the cookie is level and leaves the perfect amount of room to back the mold.  Too much and the cookie goes above the rim of the mold.  Too little and the shell is too thick on the bottom.  I do a bonbon that has a brownie layer and it is hard enough with ganache to get the level perfect.  It must be 10 times harder with marshmallow. 

[keychris]

3 hours ago, Bentley said:

 it is hard enough with ganache to get the level perfect.

 

use a more fluid ganache so it self levels

[Jim D.]

I am reporting on yesterday's experiment with making the marshmallow, leaving it to firm up in a slab, then cutting into rounds to be placed in a mold: By this morning the marshmallow was nicely set. I finally got the slab separated from the oiled foil specified in the RecipeGullet recipe for strawberry marshmallows (note:  oiling the foil lightly is not sufficient), dusted it with confectioner's sugar and cornstarch (could not find potato starch at the store), then used the Ateco round cutter (dusted each time with the sugar-starch mixture). The cutting went surprisingly well, producing nice cylinders of marshmallow, which also tasted good (except for the unpleasantness of the cornstarch). I had a "geodesic dome" mold into which they fit perfectly. That mold has close to perpendicular sides, so no gap--this would not work with a demisphere or wide dome as the marshmallow is too firm and springy to fill in any gaps. The cylinders were, however, too tall--I had overestimated how much I could compress the marshmallow, which springs back a lot. So I cut the cylinders in half (a "demi-cylinder"?), and they fit with room for another filling of some sort that complements the strawberry (my feeling is that marshmallow needs to be accompanied by something else to be interesting).

 

Initial conclusion: This process works, but the marshmallows have to be made the right height to start (cutting them in half is a terrible job). The process is very labor-intensive and would therefore be feasible only for very small batches (or only for someone who is happy with extremely detailed work). Basically, not something I will likely try again. My experience is similar to what @Bentley concluded with his Swedish recipe--the marshmallow needs to be piped directly into the shell. Now I guess I need a class at the Callebaut Academy where Kerry saw this being done successfully!

[Jim D.]

Thanks, @Kerry Beal for digging out the Callebaut details. Once I converted the temps to Fahrenheit, I was quite surprised at the final temp  for the marshmallow (40C/104F). Since that's about 10 degrees (F) above the temp at which dark chocolate will melt, I'm wondering how they avoided ruining the shells.

[Kerry Beal]

10 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

Thanks, @Kerry Beal for digging out the Callebaut details. Once I converted the temps to Fahrenheit, I was quite surprised at the final temp  for the marshmallow (40C/104F). Since that's about 10 degrees (F) above the temp at which dark chocolate will melt, I'm wondering how they avoided ruining the shells.

I suspect by the time you get it into the piping bag it's going to be cool enough not to melt the chocolate

[Bentley]

5 hours ago, keychris said:

 

use a more fluid ganache so it self levels

I meant it is hard to get the right amount so that when you add the cookie on top it is at the perfect level for capping. 

[RobertM]

6 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I am reporting on yesterday's experiment with making the marshmallow, leaving it to firm up in a slab, then cutting into rounds to be placed in a mold: By this morning the marshmallow was nicely set. I finally got the slab separated from the oiled foil specified in the RecipeGullet recipe for strawberry marshmallows (note:  oiling the foil lightly is not sufficient), dusted it with confectioner's sugar and cornstarch (could not find potato starch at the store), then used the Ateco round cutter (dusted each time with the sugar-starch mixture). The cutting went surprisingly well, producing nice cylinders of marshmallow, which also tasted good (except for the unpleasantness of the cornstarch). I had a "geodesic dome" mold into which they fit perfectly. That mold has close to perpendicular sides, so no gap--this would not work with a demisphere or wide dome as the marshmallow is too firm and springy to fill in any gaps. The cylinders were, however, too tall--I had overestimated how much I could compress the marshmallow, which springs back a lot. So I cut the cylinders in half (a "demi-cylinder"?), and they fit with room for another filling of some sort that complements the strawberry (my feeling is that marshmallow needs to be accompanied by something else to be interesting).

 

Initial conclusion: This process works, but the marshmallows have to be made the right height to start (cutting them in half is a terrible job). The process is very labor-intensive and would therefore be feasible only for very small batches (or only for someone who is happy with extremely detailed work). Basically, not something I will likely try again. My experience is similar to what @Bentley concluded with his Swedish recipe--the marshmallow needs to be piped directly into the shell. Now I guess I need a class at the Callebaut Academy where Kerry saw this being done successfully!

Jim....nothing says we couldn’t work on this in Niagra in May!  Sounds like a fun thing to experiment with.

i previously made a s’mores piece with a piped marshmallow followed by a cookie.  As you say, it’s labor intensive.  Perhaps I should have done something like that when I had the enrober....??  Oh well.....

[KennethT]

Many many years ago, I had made molded chocolates with a flowing marshmallow fluff-like center.  I made the fluff from scratch using sugar/glucose, water,  powdered egg whites and some vanilla... no gelatin.  Worked quite well and was very tasty.  It was a little tricky in the beginning to add the fluff to the mold, but pretty soon had no issues.

[Jim D.]

27 minutes ago, RobertM said:

Jim....nothing says we couldn’t work on this in Niagra in May!  Sounds like a fun thing to experiment with.

i previously made a s’mores piece with a piped marshmallow followed by a cookie.  As you say, it’s labor intensive.  Perhaps I should have done something like that when I had the enrober....??  Oh well.....

 

It's the piping that is the crucial part. I am not ready to report yet, but I tried another batch, taking it to one of the Callebaut temps mentioned earlier (235F, which is a bit lower than many recipes specify), and it worked perfectly, piping without any mess at all. But I need to make sure this will set up and also be able to replicate this with a larger batch of marshmallow--the small amount allowed the mixture to cool down to 90F rather quickly, and this won't happen with more marshmallow. So no declaration of "mission accomplished" yet. More to come....

 

I am interested in adding a cookie as you described, but I'm not sure what cookies do to shelf life (possible molding?). Ewald Notter makes what he calls a cracker that consists of feuilletine and chocolate, and feuilletine contains wheat, so I suppose there is no problem. I would love to hear from someone about that issue (or non-issue).

 

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

2 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

It's the piping that is the crucial part. I am not ready to report yet, but I tried another batch, taking it to one of the Callebaut temps mentioned earlier (235F, which is a bit lower than many recipes specify), and it worked perfectly, piping without any mess at all. But I need to make sure this will set up and also be able to replicate this with a larger batch of marshmallow--the small amount allowed the mixture to cool down to 90F rather quickly, and this won't happen with more marshmallow. So no declaration of "mission accomplished" yet. More to come....

 

I am interested in adding a cookie as you described, but I'm not sure what cookies do to shelf life (possible molding?). Ewald Notter makes what he calls a cracker that consists of feuilletine and chocolate, and feuilletine contains wheat, so I suppose there is no problem. I would love to hear from someone about that issue (or non-issue).

 

 

 

Thinking of one of my favourite cookies as a child - the Puff (now Viva Puff) - that cookie under the jam and marshmallow lived forever.

[Jim D.]

1 minute ago, Kerry Beal said:

Thinking of one of my favourite cookies as a child - the Puff (now Viva Puff) - that cookie under the jam and marshmallow lived forever.

 

But do we want to know what additive allowed it to live forever?

[Kerry Beal]

8 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

 

But do we want to know what additive allowed it to live forever?

True - cookies have low water content.

[shemakeschocolate]

1 hour ago, RobertM said:

Jim....nothing says we couldn’t work on this in Niagra in May!  Sounds like a fun thing to experiment with.

i previously made a s’mores piece with a piped marshmallow followed by a cookie.  As you say, it’s labor intensive.  Perhaps I should have done something like that when I had the enrober....??  Oh well.....

May I ask how you do a cookie layer in molded chocolates? I'm still learning the ropes of all this and have struggled to understand how these layers are created. 

[Jim D.]

In reference to Ewald Notter mentioned above:  He calls for mixing melted cocoa butter and melted chocolate with crushed feuilletine, then rolling this very thin between plastic sheets. When it is firm, you cut it into pieces that will fit into the mold you are using. It is very tricky (1) to get it thin enough, (2) to cut it the right size without breaking it into shards, and (3) to get the ganache level just right so that the "cracker" will fit on top without extending too far up (this was discussed earlier in this thread). Covering such items with cocoa butter/chocolate is essential or they become soft and gummy. Others in the forum have mentioned incorporating shortbread and other cookies.