Montreal Smoked Meat

[Shmerel Berel]

I just found this forum. I'm from Kansas and I've been interested in Montreal Smoked Meat since I first listened to Leonard Cohen. I've never visited Montreal but I've always wanted to try to have a smoked meat sandwich. Most of the more famous places are no longer kosher and I haven't found anyone willing to send me a kosher version of it. Leavitt's (sp?) started importing into the States; however I've heard that they inject brine and use too many modern cons to get their results.

I've read some of the recipes posted online but I was wondering if anyone had an exact recipe.

first stage would be the curing of the meat,

the second stage would be the smoking of the meat (what woods are commonly used and what spices are added at this stage)

and if there is a steam stage.

Finally what side dishes are prepared with Smoked Meat (french fries and cole slaw)?

Is it served on dark Rye bread, Rye bread, or Rye bread with caraway?

Thanks,

Shmerel

[Kenk]

Hello Shmerel,

Levitt's Smoked Meat is a pretty good product the last time I tried it and it is Kosher(click.

They do a pretty good balance between modern commercial methods and traditional methods.

I will get back to you after I do a re-evaluation of the present product.

I do not have an exact recipe but my post above gives a good start to the spice mix.

If you follow a corned beef recipe with a Club House pickling spice as a base or

Make a brine of salt and sugar

add

lightly cracked pepper

lightly cracked coriander

lightly cracked allspice

cracked cloves

crumpled bay leaves

crumpled hot pepper

also

whole mustard seed

SALTPETER. Sodium nitrate

The wood that is traditionally used in Montreal is probably Sugar Maple.

The smoked meat brisket is steamed whole before slicing by "HAND" into rye slices.

One of the professions in Montreal is a Smoked Meat Cutter.

In Montreal usually yellow mustard is used as a condiment.

When I make it at home I make it with kimmel(rye with kimmel seeds) or dark rye.

The sides are sour brined dill cucumber pickles or half sours, brined dill pickled Tomatoes, pickled cherry bomb peppers, pickled banana peppers, hand sliced double fried crispy french fries,

vinegar cole slaw slightly sweet, and a black cherry soft drink.

Ohhhh I just can't keep my heart from fluttereing!

Here is a recipe I have never tried it but hey click.

[Shmerel Berel]

Thanks for your help.

Do you know if pepper/coriander/garlic mixture or some other mixture is reapplied (sp?) to the meat prior to smoking?

[Kenk]

It is a good idea to refresh the spices just before smoking.

Adding garlic at any or all steps is a good Idea.

The refreshed spices should probably exclude the ones that are harder to digest for a good finish .

ie. bay leaves, chiles

The best smoked meat has a dark spice coated exterior.

If you give it a try let me know how it is going.

[BDR]

MARGINALLY off topic, but next time you're at Schwartz's, try the Rib Steak, medium, with all the spices. Pretty darn good.

[joseph]

Passed by Schwartz's last nite. Place was full of customers and a line up out the front door. While watching the meat cutter I saw him turn his head from his work and spit on the floor. That cost me my appetite. I wonder when was the last time the City Health Inspector paid them a visit. The place looks filthy. The meat must be good but the sandwiches seem somewhat small...but at $4.25? I remember the last time I was there I returned mine because the medium I ordered came lean and dry. Left for another smoked meat at Delicieux on Phillips Square. Came with great home made fries, coleslaw and a putters pickle. The meat was mouth watering. The added dimension was the rye bread with caraway seeds throughout that gave it that extra flavour. They are relatively new, having only been in business for the last few months (took over from Dunns) but they are already being discovered. Never saw such georgeous waiters and waitresses in a deli before.

[Josef]

On the discussion of smoked meats. There is a guy selling smoked meats on eBay under the name of "hungarian_sausage" that has the best smoked sausages and Rib Bacon "Rippenspeck" I have ever eaten. I ordered the Csabai and Rippenspeck and still can not get it out of my mind. All I can say is WOW, Amazing and how can this be. As I understand it, this guy is an old timer from the old country making this great stuff as a hobby. Oh well, sometimes you find the best stuff in unusual places.

[carswell]

A friend has just told me that in a recent Gazette article about Schwartz's possibly opening a branch in the Crescent-Bishop area of downtown, the owner was quoted as repeatedly referring to the meat's being marinated. I didn't see the article and a search of the newspaper's website turns up nada (it only goes back a week, though). Still, assuming my friend's memory isn't playing tricks on her (highly unlikely that it would), does this mean that smoked meat is not dry-cured? Or is "marinated" trade talk for dry-cured? Maybe the owner's trying to throw imitators off the track? On their legendary quest, did the marathoners inquire as to the process whereby this delicacy is produced? Has a piece of the smoked meat puzzle just fallen into place?

Edited April 19, 2004 by carswell (log)

[SteveW]

I just re-read the Montreal Gazette article. Yes, the Schwartz's owner mentions marinating the meat, but I'm almost 100% certain he means it is dry-cured(Schwartz's does it for 10 days). BTW, the Montreal Gazette website is turning into a pay site(as will all the CanWest Global papers eventually). There's a free trial period until the end of May for non-subscribers(current 7-day Gazette subscribers, get the website included with the subscription). Unfortunately, now the Gazette archives on the site, only goes back one week(previously it would go back 2 weeks). As for Schwartz's possibly opening a second location on Crescent, it won't happen.

-Steve

[SteveW]

I'm still waiting for the Schwartz's gang to come to NYC & accept the food writer Steven Shaw challenge from the Fat Guy Eats Canada 2002 thing around 2 years ago. That Steven would conduct a taste test at his apartment between Schwartz's smoked meat vs Katz's pastrami. Maybe it could be done as a eGullet event.

-Steve

[poutine]

To dispell the rumours that are circulating here & elsewhere, Schwartz's is a) not moving to Crescent and b) uses a dry "marinade" or rub. (All the reviewed restaurants do but to varying successes). The reason that the e-Gulleters went on the smoked meat marathon was due to Mr. Richlers article whereby he appropriated smoked meat from Montreal and transported it back to Toronto whereby it was judged there. We decided that a true test can only be performed right there & then. This principle would apply to New York tasting as well. I also believe that Fat Guy claimed Schwartz's trumped them all.

[SteveW]

Fat Guy did say that Schwartz's was the best of them all, based on his last visit(in June 2002 for his Fat Guy Eats Canada trip). Probably better than Katz's. Previous to that he thought the Snowdon Deli had the best Montreal smoked meat(did not eat at Snowdon Deli on his last visit).

-Steve

[poutine]

Previous to that he thought the Snowdon Deli had the best Montreal smoked meat(did not eat at Snowdon Deli on his last visit).

I know a few people who, despite having grown up in Montreal, will insist that Snow Del's sm is superior. There's no denying that it's good sm, but I've always leaned towards Schwartz's. Ironically I live within a 5 minute walk of S.D. but I'm always willing to travel for my sm fix. Mind you, for all sorts of other Jewish-style take-out .. hmmm, I'm walking over to S.D. now! I feel a smoked fish craving coming on with some mini-danish.

[SteveW]

Schwartz's opening a second location on Crescent was more than a rumour. They seriously considered it, but eventually decided against it.

-Steve

Edited April 19, 2004 by SteveW (log)

[ademello]

Just a little off-topic, where in Montreal can you get a REAL reuben sandwich? I'm talking New York style with corned beef (not pastrami or smoked meat). Believe it or not, the best I've had was in Stowe, VT at the Green Mountain Inn. Just wondering if anyone knew where you can find a great one in Montreal.

[futronic]

Schwartz's is excellent. I ended up there for smoked meat twice in three days. They're much better than Dunn's, in my opinion, and 100x better than anything in Toronto.

I have a couple friends that will drive to Montreal (from Toronto) just for a smoked meat sandwich. Of course, they bring back pounds of the stuff and eat it for a week. I don't know if that's healthy or not, but it's tasty as hell!

[poutine]

Schwartz's is excellent. I ended up there for smoked meat twice in three days. They're much better than Dunn's, in my opinion, and 100x better than anything in Toronto.

I have a couple friends that will drive to Montreal (from Toronto) just for a smoked meat sandwich. Of course, they bring back pounds of the stuff and eat it for a week. I don't know if that's healthy or not, but it's tasty as hell!

Dunn's was not deemed worthy enough to merit a visit during March's sm marathon (check out the sm martathon thread, especially the mouthwatering pictures pss took).

So what's a little 5 hour drive down the 401! You have friends with very good taste ... never abandon your friends.

[poutine]

Schwartz's opening a second location on Crescent was more than a rumour. They seriously considered it, but eventually decided against it.

-Steve

When I asked the guys at the counter about moving to Crescent, they just laughed (really hard). I wonder how seriously they considered a 2nd.

[Chef Fowke]

What a ramble, what a thread. With ties to Quebec I could not let this thread evolve without some input from people in the know...

NY Deli Digresses to Montreal Smoked Meat

Maybe some input from our Eastern Friends can help clarify the matter. Three questions:

1) What is the difference between authentic Montreal Deli vs. a NY Deli?

2) Who is serving the best Montreal Smoked Meat, right now?

3) Who is the king of the Montreal Deli Scene?

[wesza]

What a ramble, what a thread. With ties to Quebec I could not let this thread evolve without some input from people in the know...

NY Deli Digresses to Montreal Smoked Meat

Maybe some input from our Eastern Friends can help clarify the matter. Three questions:

1) What is the difference between authentic Montreal Deli vs. a NY Deli?

2) Who is serving the best Montreal Smoked Meat, right now?

3) Who is the king of the Montreal Deli Scene?

←

"BRIAN"

You using such fancy word as "Digresses" startled me since I have been trying to convince a NYC Deli Operator to do what I thought you said. I have been doing my best to convince him that if he wanted to become # 1 in Deli/Pastrami and Bagels it would be a real marketing ploy to serve"Pastrami, Salt Beef [Corned Beef]" and imported Montreal "Bagels" to his potential customers who craved the old time taste and flavors not generally available in shhhhh, NYC anymore.

When I read your posting I thought it had already happened.

Irwin

[nwyles]

What a ramble, what a thread. With ties to Quebec I could not let this thread evolve without some input from people in the know...

NY Deli Digresses to Montreal Smoked Meat

Maybe some input from our Eastern Friends can help clarify the matter. Three questions:

1) What is the difference between authentic Montreal Deli vs. a NY Deli?

2) Who is serving the best Montreal Smoked Meat, right now?

3) Who is the king of the Montreal Deli Scene?

←

"BRIAN"

You using such fancy word as "Digresses" startled me since I have been trying to convince a NYC Deli Operator to do what I thought you said. I have been doing my best to convince him that if he wanted to become # 1 in Deli/Pastrami and Bagels it would be a real marketing ploy to serve"Pastrami, Salt Beef [Corned Beef]" and imported Montreal "Bagels" to his potential customers who craved the old time taste and flavors not generally available in shhhhh, NYC anymore.

When I read your posting I thought it had already happened.

Irwin

←

It has, I think thats the point!

[wesza]

What a ramble, what a thread. With ties to Quebec I could not let this thread evolve without some input from people in the know...

NY Deli Digresses to Montreal Smoked Meat

Maybe some input from our Eastern Friends can help clarify the matter. Three questions:

1) What is the difference between authentic Montreal Deli vs. a NY Deli?

2) Who is serving the best Montreal Smoked Meat, right now?

3) Who is the king of the Montreal Deli Scene?

←

"BRIAN"

You using such fancy word as "Digresses" startled me since I have been trying to convince a NYC Deli Operator to do what I thought you said. I have been doing my best to convince him that if he wanted to become # 1 in Deli/Pastrami and Bagels it would be a real marketing ploy to serve"Pastrami, Salt Beef [Corned Beef]" and imported Montreal "Bagels" to his potential customers who craved the old time taste and flavors not generally available in shhhhh, NYC anymore.

When I read your posting I thought it had already happened.

Irwin

←

It has, I think thats the point!

←

Brian & Neil:

I phoned my soon to be "Deli" person in NYC who has worked for over 20 years at both the "Stage Deli" and "Carnegie" if he was aware of anyone serving and "Montreal Smoked Beef " according to him there is none being served he is aware about anywhere in NYC. He also asked me if Canadian Beef products are allowed to be imported to the States, as several months ago when he inquired he was told that there was a customs restriction in place for Canadian Beef products, but I thought that ban had been lifted.

Now if you are familiar with anyplace that serves it in NYC please advise. I'll have some sent on the excuse of needing a "Pastrami Fix".

Every time I see Brian's little Pastrami Picture on his postings I reminisce about the original pictures on eGullet tread. Now if Neil will post a picture of his "Ginger Pudding" with "Hanger Steak" I will have something to anticipate for my next trip to Vancouver.

Irwin

Edited February 27, 2005 by wesza (log)

[Mooshmouse]

I phoned my soon to be "Deli" person in NYC who has worked for over 20 years at both the "Stage Deli" and "Carnegie"...

←

Good grief Charlie Brown! This afternoon's episode of "Into The Fire" on FoodTV Canada featured Carnegie Delicatessen and Restaurant. I have never seen sandwiches like those in my entire life. 6" to 8" high, 3 1/2 lbs of meat! Nothing short of extraordinary.

The owner's favourite saying: "I only have two rules. First, you can't leave until you finish what's on your plate. Second, if I can see an empty plate, then I know I've done something wrong."

[jayt90]

1) What is the difference between authentic Montreal Deli vs. a NY Deli?

2) Who is serving the best Montreal Smoked Meat, right now?

3) Who is the king of the Montreal Deli Scene?

←

I would like to find out what is the difference between Pastrami, and Smoked Meat?

Both are smoked, but is the Montreal product a different cut?

[Mooshmouse]

From what I saw on "Into The Fire" of Carnegie making their own product, pastrami is steamed and corned beef is boiled. Montreal smoked meat would be, as it's named, smoked.