Bay leaves: useful, or wishful thinking?

[Shel_B]

Why dont they sell Bay leaves ground so people dont choke on the leaf or have to fish them out?

 

They do ... here are but two examples:  http://www.spicesinc.com/p-2747-ground-bay-leaves.aspx    http://www.ryespice.co.uk/bay-leaves-ground/

 

 

ETA:  Sorry for the repetitious post

Edited August 14, 2014 by Shel_B (log)

[TheCulinaryLibrary]

 Research on the effects of different drying methods on the loss of aroma (volatiles) in bay leaves* has confirmed that oven drying at 45 °C and air-drying at ambient temperature produced similar results with hardly any loss in volatiles compared to the fresh herb.( Freezing and freeze-drying on the other hand resulted in substantial losses ( aroma & flavor) of volatiles, and created some unwanted chemical changes). So probably best to stick to fresh or ones you dry yourself. And even if your palate cant detect strong bay flavor the medicinal benefits alone make them worth using. (free-radical, antioxidant and alcohol inhibitor, anti bacterial and anti inflammatory properties)

*The Journal of Agriculture Food Chemistry Research 2002

[haresfur]

Why dont they sell Bay leaves ground so people dont choke on the leaf or have to fish them out?

 

Housemates of mine at Uni had a tradition that the person who got a bay leaf on their plate had to kiss the cook.

[TheCulinaryLibrary]

Housemates of mine at Uni had a tradition that the person who got a bay leaf on their plate had to kiss the cook.

Love it!

[Shelby]

Housemates of mine at Uni had a tradition that the person who got a bay leaf on their plate had to kiss the cook.

Ours was who ever got the bay leaf had to do the dishes.....I guess that could be better or worse than kissing depending on the cook lol.

[Kerala]

Bayleaves: useful. We have a tree in the garden which I use all the time.  Last night, I made bay salt (bay leaf, salt, ground in a mortar and pestle) which I used as a dry rub on a leg of lamb before roasting. Tasted very good.

[naguere]

I have a small Bay Tree in my garden, a bush, perhaps. it is excellent for cooking and all I do is walk up to it and pull a couple of leaves of, so that i will impart its fragrance to my current dish..

 

Fresh bay leaves have a delicate perfume , and in a cooked dish it gives  a fine taste and can easily be removed before serving.

 

Dried on the other hand can be harsh tasting and  brittle .

 

There are many bay varieties, make certain you have the fragrant one. (Let Google be your friend). 

[Alex Black]

hi all,

 nice n easy one for my first post. when using a fresh bayleaf in place of a dried one in ,say, a stew, would you add it later than stated in a recipe like you would other fresh herbs or would it nlot make much difference as its quite a hardy ingredient?

 cheers

[jmacnaughtan]

No, use it in the same way.  The flavour won't be as strong though, so you might want to add two.

[Alex Black]

that's that sorted then. cheers

[andiesenji]

I simmer fresh bay leaves in the milk I am going to use for custards - the fresh leaves are "sweeter" and have some flavor elements that are not apparent in the dried leaves.

 

Perhaps you will take the time to read through this article, which has some great suggestions.

[boudin noir]

I have used dried bay leaves from multiple sources and am unable to detect them. Fresh on the other hand provide a very nice flavor component.

[patrickamory]

Just make sure you're talking about the right type of bay leaf.

[andiesenji]

Just make sure you're talking about the right type of bay leaf.

I grow my own and they are the true Laurel Nobilis.  I know some people use California bay but I can't stand the smell which to me is like kerosene and I can certainly detect it in food and to me it ruins the entire meal because once I taste it, it takes hours to get rid of it.

[Alex Black]

I have used dried bay leaves from multiple sources and am unable to detect them. Fresh on the other hand provide a very nice flavor component.

i always thought the same but then i upped the dose to two dried bay leafs in a dish and could certainly detect them -way too much. i guess they're just there for a subtle undertone for the foundation as opposed to the star role. cheers all

[lindag]

Is there really any major difference in the dried and the fresh?

I've only used the dried type but I'm open to finding a plant.  Do you use more of the fresh like other herbs?

Edited June 18, 2017 by lindag (log)

[liuzhou]

Many years ago in England, I had a bay plant. I always felt that, while I liked the plant, the flavour difference was negligible.

 

Here in China, I can buy fresh leaves in the market, but seldom do. The dried are just more convenient.

 

On an aside, I had never associated bay with China till I got here, but it's very common.

[ElsieD]

I used to have a bay leaf plant and could not tell the difference between fresh and dried leaves.

[andiesenji]

I use them fresh all the time.  I have two huge bay "bushes" which were supposed to be "dwarf" and not grow taller than 8 feet.

Ha!  I have had then trimmed when they reached 20' and again near that.

The aroma and flavor is exceptional.  One is a true Laurus Nobilis and the other is a Canary Island Laurus variant but has similar flavor and aroma.  Both were given to me by a friend who worked at the Huntington Gardens when I first moved up here in 1988.

I pick leaves and put them in a wire colander on my kitchen counter until they are completely dry and then I vac seal them and send them to friends.  

They are evergreen so I have a supply of fresh leaves all year although the aroma and flavor is strongest in the late spring. 

I lightly crush two or three leaves to simmer in milk or cream for a custard base - or when I want to make a cream sauce for vegetables.  The flavor is exquisite.  

 

I also save the straight stems when I prune the bushes and use them for skewers and they too impart flavor to meats, chicken, vegetables, etc.

 

The original "trunk" is behind the oldest scions. it is more than 8 inches in diameter just above the ground.

When first planted it was barely an inch in diameter.

 

This one has again reached 20' in height and is in the branches of the shade tree.

 

This is the Canary Island variant - which was not supposed to survive our winters at this altitude (2800 ft) and the hard freezes but it has survived temps down to 5°F.  Although I protected both the first few years.  

You can see that the leaves are slightly lighter, a bit more yellow in the green and they have "hairy" flower clusters. 

They also produce a lot of very large leaves.  

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by andiesenji (log)

[haresfur]

Wow Andie, impressive because they seem to grow slowly. I have one that is now about 2 m tall and more of a bush, which is fine with me because I'm growing it for the leaves, not for shade.

 

I find the fresh leaves are more delicate and I use more. I think the taste is a bit different. I probably should throw out my old store-bought dried leaves and dry some of my own since I now have enough to harvest.

 

When my family lived in England, the landlady was out front pruning trees and handed my very confused mother a branch as a gift. The landlady finally realised she had to explain that it was bay. I don't think my mother had ever seen it anywhere but in little packs before.

Edited June 19, 2017 by haresfur (log)

[andiesenji]

I sometimes cut out the center rib and put them in the dehydrator sandwiched between two of the "fruit leather drying sheets" until they are crumbly.  I put them in the spice grinder and grind to a fine powder and add just a tiny amount of corn starch.  This can then be "bloomed" in hot oil or butter to toss with vegetables or add to stews, etc.

 

There are commercial spice blends that use it, so why not make your own.  

[Thanks for the Crepes]

2 hours ago, andiesenji said:

I put them in the spice grinder and grind to a fine powder and add just a tiny amount of corn starch.  This can then be "bloomed" in hot oil or butter to toss with vegetables or add to stews, etc.

 

There are commercial spice blends that use it, so why not make your own.

 

Yes, this works fine.

 

The Betty Crocker Cookbook printed in 1976, which I love otherwise, recommends in their Italian Spaghetti recipe to crumble a dried bay leaf into the meat sauce, but I crossed those instructions out after hearing a story from my ex-SIL who is an occupational therapist. These dried leaves are so hard and sharp, impervious to digestion, that they can actually slice the gastro system. I love the flavor, and I'm very glad to hear that I'm not missing much by no access to the fresh leaves.

 

Just please, if you are using the dried, grind them to a powder as andiesenji says or use them whole and remove them so no one ingests them. This  poor guy my SIL was caring for got peritonitis. You do not want that. You DON'T.

 

I count my dried bay leaves, and keep searching until every one I used has been retrieved and discarded.

[gfron1]

On a side note, the original Art of Eating book proclaimed the large bay leaves bought at Indian markets were superior to the small ones bought everywhere else. I don't use bay often enough to know if its true, but at 10% of the price I've stuck with the larger leaves ever since.

[andiesenji]

This site has a few spice blends that include ground bay leaves.

 

Many Garam Masala blends include ground bay leaves.

 

Several online vendors sell ground bay leaves.  Years ago, when I was still prepping wild game for the hunters stationed at Edwards, one of the guys who entered barbecue contests used a lot of ground bay leaves in his "secret" rub.  He would come and prune my bushes for me and haul away a huge bundle of stems and leaves.  I sure missed him when he was transferred to another post.  His wife was not a cook, didn't want to learn but liked gardening.  I got her started growing herbs and gave them a couple of scions from my bays.  

Edited June 19, 2017 by andiesenji (log)

[haresfur]

On 6/19/2017 at 5:06 PM, Thanks for the Crepes said:

 

Yes, this works fine.

 

The Betty Crocker Cookbook printed in 1976, which I love otherwise, recommends in their Italian Spaghetti recipe to crumble a dried bay leaf into the meat sauce, but I crossed those instructions out after hearing a story from my ex-SIL who is an occupational therapist. These dried leaves are so hard and sharp, impervious to digestion, that they can actually slice the gastro system. I love the flavor, and I'm very glad to hear that I'm not missing much by no access to the fresh leaves.

 

Just please, if you are using the dried, grind them to a powder as andiesenji says or use them whole and remove them so no one ingests them. This  poor guy my SIL was caring for got peritonitis. You do not want that. You DON'T.

 

I count my dried bay leaves, and keep searching until every one I used has been retrieved and discarded.

 

I guess you don't have the tradition that whoever finds a bay leaf in their food has to kiss the cook